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The Forum > Article Comments > Don't be too transported with delight > Comments

Don't be too transported with delight : Comments

By Alan Moran, published 11/5/2006

Discriminating against car users in favour of public transport use offends against personal choice.

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From some things I have read there is no shortage (at the moment) of oil that has pushed the price up, but speaculation of foreign markets that Iran is going to have their "nice American cousins" over for a visit to help with the spring cleaning in the future that has put the price where it is.

Not withstanding, there will be a shortage of fuel and we will have to look at alternatives. The Government has just given around 53 million to Ford Australia to develop their two new cars. If they were serious they would insist on hybrid cars or at least minimum fuel consumption standards. They are only serious about making more money through their taxes that they will eventually give back to us at a lousy $10 a week and tell us that it's manna from heaven.
Posted by Nita, Friday, 12 May 2006 11:52:51 AM
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A straw poll among my friends suggests that a price of $2.50 to $3.00 per litre for fuel would cause them to reduce their fuel usage. I suspect that there would be a huge shakeout of freight, international travel, tourism etc at that kind of level. Anybody know if you can run a jet airliner on methanol?

In some ways cars are the last thing we need to worry about in relation to oil prices. Methanol, biodiesel, hybrids, fewer 4wd behemoths etc could all reduce our dependence on oil. The AWB could do with a local market for all that unsaleable wheat.

Sadly, I think those who see rising fuel prices as a panacea for our car-cogged cities are mistaken. A lot of people will simply stick more purchases on credit and continue driving. However I would be happy to be proved wrong.
Posted by Johnj, Friday, 12 May 2006 6:42:14 PM
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Johnj,

A considerable number of informed experts have come to the conclusion that the consequences of high petrol prices could be a lot more serious than you imagine. They could well trigger the complete collapse of our economy, and hence civilisation, because very aspect of our economy is so dependent upon petroleum. I suggest you read the material on the web about Peak Oil. I found the following article about how petroleum shortages could cause running water to fail using the google search term 'petro-collapse':

http://www.culturechange.org/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=2

Some good mailing lists to join for information on these topics are

Energy Resources : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/energyresources

Running On Empty, Oz : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/energyroeoz
Posted by daggett, Saturday, 13 May 2006 1:13:39 AM
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The problem I see with fuel is that in real terms it has not gone up when related to average weekly earnings.

I read a report a while ago, that the fixed quantity of petrol has not been above 8% AWE since 1971. In fact a few years ago, it was down to 4%.

What this means is that in real terms for wage earners, petrol has not gone up in 35 years, but varied downwards creating the impression that it has gone up.

What we need to reduce demand to balance with supply and stretch out the finite oil reserves of the world.

The $2.50 to $3.00 that has been mentioned would be about the right figure, but as long as no pay rise happens to restore the buying power.
Regulating back the purchasing power of the labour market will continue the distortion.

With some sectors of the economy on world market pricing, where the price does not rise, making them pay for the regulated compensation wage increase ( as you cannot subsides your self) is very discriminatory.

• Many people believe we have already used half the worlds oil reserves
• We use what took 400 years to create, EVERY DAY!
• If we used renewable, from wheat and canola for the petrol and diesel, it would consume 80,000,000 tonnes a year. This is several times Australia’s production.

Just seen Daggett’S comments

I agree that is possible if we don’t act now, if it’s not to late already.

My opinion is that if we continue to give full compensation for petrol (as a % calculation) to the wage’s paid in our country, we will put the country into a depression.
All it really does is transfer the cost of energy to the cost structure of the agriculture sector. Their farm gate to petrol ratio has changed by about 25 times during the same time period. Keep doing this and we will environmental disaster as farmers try to keep afloat with very poor terms of trade.

Cheers to all, time for some new energy’s ideas and lifestyles
Posted by dunart, Saturday, 13 May 2006 1:51:26 AM
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So can anyone really see a happy outcome from this problem? It seems to me that cutting back on driving isn't going to make a big difference then. Are we just waiting for the next Dark Age?
Posted by shorbe, Sunday, 14 May 2006 5:01:37 PM
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I am a little dubious about all this apocalyptic doomsaying. No question that we have some tough times ahead, but I found the Jan Lunberg's article referred to by daggett was dodgy in the extreme. Coal-fired power stations will be shut down because there won't be any diesel to transport the coal? Oh please, give me a break. Hasn't this guy ever heard of steam trains?

Having read Roberto Vacca's "The Coming Dark Age" in the 1970s, and seen none of his predictions come to pass, I find this current debate a bit like deja vu. Peak oil presents a real challenge, but as has been hammered elsewhere in this forum, the real problem is sustainability. Public transport is a significant part of the solution, we just need politicians to recognize this fact.
Posted by Johnj, Sunday, 14 May 2006 10:37:09 PM
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