Whether or not the radically altered IR situation will be of benefit to all parties remains to be seen, but the Government has certainly made a dog's breakfast of its implimenatation, striking real fear into the hearts of workers.

From personal experience, I know how hard it has been for an employer to sack bad workers, even those who steal from them. But this latest attempt at 'efficiency' has certainly turned the table on workers. While no decent employer would be insane enough to sack a good worker, there are enough rotten employers out there, both small and large, who will not stop at the chance of ruining the lives of workers and their families on the slightest pretext.

Given this Government's apparent lack of concern for Australian workers, and its sneaky introduction of foreign workers - Howard doesn't believe in 'guest workers' so he brings people in to stay and permanently lower pay and conditions - I am extremely glad that I am retired. But, I do sympathise with the workers of Australia

I think that the author is essentially right. There has been a lack of leadership in selling the reforms. They were never going to be very popular, however there could have been a greater attempt to dispell unnecessary fear.

In other words the government policy is right, but the spin is lacking. I know spin has become a dirty word but it happens to be the one thing that the government should have done more of. The union movement has been out their spinning like mad to maximise the fearful state of mind amoungst workers.

Honest spin would have explained that there will be winners and losers. However the losers would be little losers not massive losers and many of the winners would be those on the margin (the unemployed). The spin we are getting from the union movement is that the only winners will be fat cats.

Unfortunately rather than address these fears head on with honesty this government is likely to try and substitute it with bigger alternate fears about such things as interest rates and terrorists.

Mark Christian’s article is the biggest load of rubbish I have ever read in this forum.

He talks of freedom, “complete freedom” create by Howard’s so called “reforms”, yet the so called reforms are implemented by an Act that is hundreds of pages long, and Regulations of near equal length.

Howard’s brave new world has many restrictions on what workers can and cannot bargain with their employers, and heavy penalties for worker who asks for what he or she may want.

If Howard really believed in creating fairer IR by creating “freedom” he would have just repealed the IR laws instead of replacing them with more complex laws.

Both Mark’s article and Howard’s actions for the last ten years have shown that George Orwell was out by 22 years. His book “1984” should have been titled “2006”.

Mark, you and your fellow travelers should learn how to look at situations honesty, then maybe workers may start to trust bosses. However, I will not hold my breath waiting.

the posting 'Less is more' fails to acknowledge that this is a furphy - the level of bureaucracy being imposed on employers and AWA's they might establish with their employers is ludicrious. A case in point - the requirement that ALL employees from the CEO down accurately record all hours of work, with huge penalties to worker and company for not complying. Where is the trust in this? Where also is the choice in Workchoices where the government holds institutions to ransom for not doing it 'their' way - ie leaving the unions out of negotiations or have your funding cut (just ask the universities and other businesses who have been quite happy to develop mature partnering relationships with unions and workers for the benefit of all). Howard, Costello and their ilk with their extreme ideology are creating a different kind of bureaucracy - one more akin to Italy in the 1930's and something will have to give in order to balance the whole mess out again. Where there was room for a mature and considered approach to developing workplace relationships the government has handed power to those who can only see themselves as contributing to the coffers rather than acknowledging the role the creative work, trust and loyalty of workers also play in developing a company, an institution and a nation. Many steps backward it seems to me

I'm not sure that we can characterise peoples actions and thoughts about something as personal as the conditions of their employment in terms of trust. I thought the whole point of the reforms were to remove third party subjectivity from the employment equation and replace it with "worker choice" and "objective law". What has trust got to do with those things? Mind you given the unbelievable complexity of the legislation to deliver such simple objectives workers could be forgiven for being distrustful. The Government marketing campaign redolent of all that has been bad in Australian Industrial relations would also have certainly caused people to be unnecessarily mistrustful. But ultimately in spite of these things, because workers now effectively have choice in how their renumeration package is delivered to them, and once made can't be altered without their express consent, trust won't be an issue for them. What they agree to they will get. What ever they think of John Howard or their employer is simply not an issue.Their evidence is of their own experience. The problem really is only with the people who haven't got workplace agreement. Until confronted with the simple reality, they can be lead to believe anything i suppose.

Graeme Haycroft

Oh no not another article by the Neo-Feudilists, trying to convince us that the abolishment of basic rights is some how good for us.

The IR laws undermine basic rights of workers and families.

Why is it somehow right for people to be sacked and then offered their job back on less pay and without conditions?

The right to withhold one's labour is being denied. People are no longer allowed to discuss their pay etc without fear of huge fines and penalties.

Put simply, the IR laws are bad for workers and for most businesses. As the workers have less money in their pockets, there will have to be a corresponding recession/depression.

In regards to the imported laborers, little Johnny stated quite clearly that his govt would decide who came here and under what conditions.

The article calls for trust - WHO could ever trust John Howard after so many lies and deception.

The new reforms may actually be good for some workers - assuming that the government is serious about restricting unpaid overtime. Many workers, especially professionals clock in 20 hours plus overtime each week. Theoretically this should create more jobs as it will take three people to do what two used to. Also theoretically my children might actually get to see more of their father or his income will be doubled. I won't hold my breath for it to happen in practise though.

It comes with no surprise that the Western Australian government have rewarded their top public servants with increases of up to $66 000 per year and a different set of Industrial Laws for this sector.

Our Governments and public servants should cringe in shame to expect the Average Australian to accept this obvious wealth and power movement that is creating an everlasting divide in our social structures at the expense of the majority.

It is a slap in the face to the non-degreed worker who also plays a very important, integral role in the whole work force food chain but is paid a pitance in recognition of their worth.

Each link and cog in this chain is important to moving each and every other compontent of the economy.

Management is ineffective without "people" who actually do the job.

Meanwhile our elected Treasurer will reward those payrises and persons who have already accumulated wealth by the suggestion of lowering of the "top tax rate", once again throwing a six dollar crumb to the Average Australian.

How many kicks in the face before Australians start realising that "Evil prospers where good men keep doing nothing."

OK All you mugs out there LISTEN UP!

Here is the end-game for John Howard's IR reforms (and all his ilk on the right-wing end of politics). This is REALLY what they want:
Skip all the intermediate steps (saves all the inconvenient "debating in Parliament" and argy bargy with Unions and lawyers) and go straight to this!

1. Abolish all benefits to all workers immediately. (John Howard has nearly done this to date)
2. Those who object to this, should be sacked immediately (and they already have been). They can try to find the money to fight a court case for "unlawful dismissal".
3. Immediately coerce (did I say that!) remaining employees into signing Australian Workplace Agreements that are internationally competitive (this is in the papers every week now); where pay rates will be matched with, and pegged to, those equivalent workers in India (and paid in Rupees) or China (and paid in Yuan).
4. Anyone who doesn't sign an AWA - refer to point 2 above.
5. Offer jobs to any/all of the following:
(a) sacked workers who have since applied to Centrelink (who will be refused unemployment benefits unless they take the job at the internationally competitive (lowest) pay rates on offer);
(b) migrants who aren't used to prior working conditions (John Howard is bringing them in by the boatload)
(c) any other worker in the world who will work for the internationally competitive (lowest) pay rates on offer.
6. Use the highest and lowest wages differential of USA as a benchmark. Aim to quadruple the spread by 2008 (unless the Rupee/AUD or Yuan/AUD is larger).
7. Anyone who complains about the government will be imprisoned for sedition or as a suspected terrorist under current draconian laws.

Think I'm joking? Read the newspapers again !

Results of above IR plan

Those who are left will:

1. Be referred to Centrelink who will refer them to 5(a) above.
2. If unsucessful, apply to nearest Charity (Smith Family/ St Vincent de Paul/ Salvation Army) who will be overwhelmed and under funded (since those in a job cannot afford to give to charity and those who can afford to give to a charity will say "let the bludgers starve").
3. Sell children to business owner who wants to provide employment for "youth unemployed". Promised to provide food & board in exchange for 20 hours, 7 days work a week.
4. Take up residence in nearest cardboard box (Eddy Avenue is full now).
5. Wonder whether it is worth continuing to live.

Exclusions to this plan are:

1. Sick, injured, infirm, old or mentally ill. They are not economically viable "production units" (see Ayn Rand: Atlas Shrugged; speech by John Galt) and should be eliminated immediately. Suggest they be "released into the community" and/or incarcerated in a prison. Possible alternative is the Auschwitz solution (Arbeit Macht Frei rule) for all.
2. Business Owners. They supply the capital and need to concentrate it at much as possible in the hands of the fewest. Hence the need to lower wages and conditions.
3. Politicians. These guys help re-engineer the society which will keep all the "production units" in production.

Welcome to the new IR WorkPlace !

What do we need laws for anyway ?

We could trust people not to commit crimes, murder, rape etc, and save a fortune on judges , prisons and the like. The criminal code costs money, damnit!

Alternatively, we could put our trust in big business always doing the right thing and remove all that annoying red tape holding them back. HIH could have done so much more without the intervention of pesky company laws.

We could put our trust in Kevin Andrews. In fact, with the new workplace laws it is in Kevin we trust, because Big Kev has the power to interfere in every workplace , wherever and whenever he likes.

I feel so much freer than I did a few weeks ago.

I will trust that my boss will make decisions that are right for the organisation they are charged to lead. Those decisions will not always be right for me. Sometimes they won't be right because my boss is a bastard. Who can I trust then ?

The sting in the tail in the new IR laws is not just for the worker... Johnny has actually pooped on his own constituency the bosses.

Every boss under these laws now needs to keep detailed records of every employee's (including his own) work hours for up to seven years or large fines apply.

But there is more ... Because the bosses have to keep a record of every single hour a worker works then the workers now have a record available to their lawyers to sue for unpaid overtime or unpaid work for up to 6 years (in Qld.) into the future after an employee leaves. Not paying people for their labours is actually illegal.

If we can trust the bureau of stats here

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/2f762f95845417aeca25706c00834efa/923ec292aba44932ca2570ec00006ee7!OpenDocument

We Aussies are working quite a deal of unpaid overtime ... but soon the bosses will have a record of it to prove these statistics.

So averaging 4 hours X $10 p.h. for 48 weeks x 6 years = $11,520 of unpaid work in 6 years. Worth going for?

Not only are workers worse off under these laws but so are the bosses. Is nicking off with the secretary work? Workcase scenario ... disgruntled ex secretary, ex lover of boss, sues for unpaid hours, bosses records show secretary was working not canoodaling... what a hoot! This will put motels out of business...lol They too keep records!

The Libs/Nats have stuffed it for the Australian worker, stuffed it for the bosses & are helping to encourage every dismissed worker to join a Union and put in a claim for any unpaid hours for up to 6 years. Union solicitors could be doing a lot of litigation work in the future some of it quite titilating too.

I'd pay the Union $2000 if I stood to get back $9520 wouldn't you?

If I was a Lawyer I'd join a Union...ha!

Onya Libs

Trust? I thought that word has lost its worth long ago. That's why we have (more) laws.

How can anyone trust Honest John Howard any more? His record of un-kept promises and blunt lies speak volumes.

Anyone with more than one brain cell will see how our economy is kept looking good while the Aussie Battler is being treated like dirt. One pay check away from poverty.

Johnny H knows very well that the only way (we) can continue to perform as a viable economy in the region is to reduce cost, employees cost that is.

Someone mentioned 1984… I think we should have accepted “the banana republic”deal when we still could.

Less is more? Go figure.