In many ways, I completely agree with Mirko Bagaric's claims.

Australia's strong sporting culture will always give rise to a high number of volunteers wanting to be a part of the particular event, although the answers don't lie in rubbishing this, they lie elsewhere, where most don't really want to look.

According to the ABS, there are only 8.5 million Anglo's, and this includes those born in Ireland & the U.K, out of our population of around 20 million.

In the very multiethnic areas of western Sydney, where white Anglo's & Europeans are the minority, they still exclusively dominate the volunteer services. I was astonished last winter, after heavy storms in Fairfield, to see that the volunteer S.E.S were entirely European, given that Fairfield would have no more than 10% European population.

I believe that this is the problem.

How, or why it is that such communities don't care, feel part of, the wider community enough to want to volunteer, or indeed enter the selfless community minded vocations such as police, fire brigade, ambulance, and so on, likely comes down to the divisive nature of multiculturalism.

We've seen recently with the zero assistance our police have received from the Lebanese Muslim community regarding catching the racist thugs within their community who stabbed, bashed, robbed, and threatened women with pack rape, as they went on their rampage after the Cronulla protest, burning churches, smashing shops, and so on.

That a community can have no empathy for outsiders is why there are no volunteers coming from such communities. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they volunteer in their own communities, it's just that there is no concern for outsiders.

This is multiculturalism.

But how long can we expect the Anglo's & Europeans to carry such tasks when such groups are shrinking?

It is indeed interesting how some will opt to help in some areas and yet will never give thought to how their assistance might be valued the more immeasureably in another area...such as with non profit charities.

I've first hand experience ...I'm the founder/president of an AIDS care charity in Melbourne, The Australian AIDS Fund Incorporated. (We invite you to visit our website at www.aids.net.au )

But that said,there are still some real jewels to be found among the few that do offer to help....

Our organisation...arguably the smallest AIDS NGO in Australia (we have no paid staff....no rented or owned property and no government funding)...is working with the inhabitants of a rural village in outback Malawi, Africa.

Been involved for just about one year....but thanks to a handful of Australian helpers...in different parts of Australia..we've:-

* Bought two properties in Malawi and established them as mini-orphanages for AIDS orphans (children who've lost their parents to AIDS)

* Almost finished building a primary school with a number of brick and iron roofed classrooms to cater for up to 400 children ..including a mini-on site clinic; a brick on-site kitchen; a resource building..housing a small but growing library and a small supply of reading glasses & battery-powered colour television...and its own water bore.. Thankfully, we also attracted $30,000 from the Australian federal government too.

* Provided the funds to buy a diesel powered maize mill that'll spare the impoverished from travelling miles with their maize on their heads to get it milled some 7 miles away...

* Equipped and kitted out a boys football team and a girls basketball team...plus bought them a strip of training land and built them a 2 roomed clubhouse

* And also bought them some agricultural land to help them become self sufficient.

Soon we'll set up a small workshop and provide a dozen sewing machines..

My message? Small is beautiful and just a little of ours means such a lot to others. Come on Aussies..join in and help..oui...oui...oui!

Cheers,
Brian Haill,
The Australian AIDS Fund Incorporated,
PO Box 1347, Frankston,Victoria,3199
Email: bhaill@bigpond.net.au
Website: www.aids.net.au

*

I have experience in the aged group and I can assure you there are volunteers who are totally wonderful, just about every part of the support areas depend on the vollys. Angels would be an apt description.
The volunteer firemen should be presented with a huge gold medal each for the efforts they put into saving the community from the terrors of fire.
Forget the sporting heroes, they are nothing compared with our marvellous volunteers.
Never seen a muslim volly though, maybe it is not their scene.

Volunteering, A 20th century concept. Thinking out loud, I wonder how many nvolunteers the community has left after, for example the first volunteer fire fighter gets hurt while fighting a community fire, and consequently his/her boss sacks the person, and hires someone, not a volunteer? Ah workchoices, you threaten to take so much more than you intended.

Being a volunteer marine emergency worker for over 10 years and being under 40 I have recently given up. Why? Because its needs, the way it has been structured, it’s policies and procedures means that I need it to be a bit more flexible to fit around my work and family obligations than it can. I do not run my life and employment around “Defence forces discipline” and I do not have the “little wife” at home to look after the place while I am off volunteering, which reflects what was happening at the time when the organisation was founded. I am sick of being told it’s because that’s the way it’s always done.

Organisations need to look at how some of their tasks are structured, can things be done via the net? is there a few special events that people can attach themselves to rather than have to give up regular time on a regular basis? They need to recognise that most people are time poor- families having many extra curricular activities and both parents working, volunteering needs to take a look at exactly what it is asking people to do and just how they are supposed to fit this in to their lives. Can we make things like travel, uniforms, first aid certificates tax deductible? How many volunteer organisations have actually made sincere overtures to their local ethnic groups to try to recruit people? Some I have come across are so cliquey it’s a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
Maybe if we wish to attract and retain volunteers, not just young people, we need to look at not only what motivates people to volunteer-in my case new skills and have fun messing about in boats- but having good workable policies around retaining enthusiastic new recruits.

One one level what the author says makes a lot of sense but another level I'm left wondering at his lack of appreciation of any value in events like the Commonwealth Games. I'm not personally into them but do think that they have an important role to play.

I wonder at how drab the world would be if all of our efforts were applied to the important stuff and none for play which seems to be what the author is suggesting. I could easily accept the argument that Australia might not have the balance perfect but that does not mean that our big play times/celebrations are of no value.

I recall the outpouring of financial and practical aid following major disasters last year and at other times. I have the impression that a significant proportion of my taxes goes to help "the needy". We may not do as much as some would like but we do "do".

Our world needs both real aid to those who suffer because of circumstances beyond their control and it needs celebration and dreams. The things that bring the world a little closer together such as giant sporting events, footprints on the moon, fire works spectaculars on New Years eve, rock concerts that make politicians think about third world debt. Those are a part of what takes us forward and lifts us out of the just getting by mode even if just for a while.

R0bert

I'm with R0bert - while the article certainly has merit. The world would be a very dull place if we only concentrated on the 'worthy'. Even though I live in Melbourne, I'm not really into the Games. I prefer sport where I actually participate, but agree that the Games bring people together - what I really like about them is the reminder of the diveristy of countries that constitute the Commonwealth.

But I do take the point that the numbers of volunteers for the Games greatly outnumber volunteers for more worthy causes. I guess the Games are alot more sexy than mucking out cages at animal shelters (my preferred volunteer work). There is a lot of satisfaction caring for injured animals though - I really enjoy that.

I used to work at an Aged Care Hostel - which was private and for profit. Yet it would fall to its knees if it wasn't supported by the regular contributions and work provided by volunteers who would provide a huge range of support for the elderly residents. I would also like to point out that even though most of the residents were Anglo/European the volunteers while mainly representative of the local population came from all races. One Indonesian lady (Muslim) travelled across town to perform traditional dances for the residents. Just to balance out the ever present Muslim swipe - mickijo.

Maybe the Games will have a positive spin-off as people new to volunteering might find that they like it so much that they continue in more worthy areas.

All in all I think we would be poorer without the Games.

You know, for an article which was trying to encourage people to be more generous with their time/effort towards the disadvantaged, it really seemed quite bad-spirited.

So what if people are supporting the Games? It is highly unlikely that many of them would be volunteering otherwise, and to some it may spur a happy feeling which encourages them to volunteer again elsewhere. I know volunteering at the Sydney games encouraged me to continue in other volunteer roles.

Don't bag people for getting excited about events that increase social cohesion and social capital, such as the CommGames - encourage them to continue embracing that feeling afterwards.

I don't have aproblem with games volunteers, if anything they will maybe volunteer for more difficult human situations as a result. I have some experience in the environmental volunteer area and have been in the difficult situation of private landowners wanting to take advantage of young 'volunteer/trainees' being paid a miserable federal government allowance. Howard's 'mutual obligation' rules seem to apply and these environmental volunteers are virtually forced to provide free labour to wealthy landowners. It cost me my job but on principle it was worth it standing up to this sort of exploitation.

Well I for one am sick of seeing weepy Australian athletes standing on the podium whilst that stupid national anthem is girting in the background. Yawn.

Wow - what a mean spirited article. And filled with so many assumptions, which is interesting given your legal background.

Good on you Laurie!

Some people who are unemployed volunteer for the games so that they can gain experience in communicating with people - and so that they can add the experience to their CV. Guess you have not heard of that?

Some volunteers for the games are also volunteers in other areas. Guess you have not heard of that also.

Mirko, did you know that people who hold professional positions (vis a vis: you)can also volunteer to assist elderly people in aged care facilities? I think that a good dose of some bed pans might assist your noxious and olfactory attitude.

My mother is 79 years of age. She is a volunteer for elderly folk. She wanted to volunteer for the games, but she knew that she was too fragile.

And, what do you think about the disabled volunteers? Guess you will slam them too?

Cheers to the volunteers for the games
Cheers to the athletes
Thumbs down for Scrooge

Is Mirko trying to elicit stories about the very grey legal areas in which volunteers tread?

For example, I know a 60+ tradesman who used to drive disabled children around until someone pointed out that if he had an accident he could be sued. As much as he wanted to help the disabled kids he didn't want to lose the assets he had accumulated throughout his life.

When you are paid for work the employer has accepted a legal responsibility for your actions and when you are a volunteer you are on your own when the crunch comes.

For example what parts of transport regulations cover the conduct of volunteer drivers? Should volunteers get 30 minute meal breaks after 5 hours of work? Can a volunteer choose / modify their roster?

Probably explains why poorly organised outfits can't retain volunteers and people are leery of volunteering.

The previous comment spoke of the situation of the danger the volunteer is placed in by some organisations, my volunteering was to drive school bus [12 seater] with no jockey to control the primary school children,the observation required to stop them putting arms and heads out of the windows of the bus made driving a very hazardous and dangerous job,I had enquired at the start of my volunteering as to the insurance etc, and was assured it was in place but was never shown a policy, after 6 months driving my blood pressure had risen to 195/110 from normal and having fastened the windows on the bus to prevent injury to the children was told by the education dept I should not have done that, I then found out that I could be sued and possibly lose all my assets if an accident occurred,at this point I made a decision to retire from that situation. If and when I volunteer again I will make sure that their is better support for the volunteer than this horrendus situation

I think the real reason people want to see an end to, or whinge about, Games like the Commonwealth Games and Olympics is because these events show a very positve side of human interaction.

Both the far left and far right would love to see conflict of a more spiteful and hateful nature. War.

Why don't we just ban Little Athletics, School Swimming, all the sporting clubs and force our youth to join the military - the dumbest, irrational of all human endeavours?

Why no mention of the violent sports like Rugby League? Milliions more of taxpayers dollars and human resource are given over to the biffo boofheads.

Why is there this new thrust against the arts and sports that focus on individual achievement and sportspersonship? Why this obsession with violent sports?

Rainer next time you win a Gold Medal I'll be the first to organise a didge in the crowd and have an Indigenous Flag for you.

Of course that is another example of supposing my white fella culture means anything to you and your mob. Seeing people with tears in their eyes and singing their anthem to me is a symbol that we are not beaten - that we have not rolled over to that mindless, meritless existence where the mark of nations greatness is the size of its surplus and how well its networked.

Rainer. I want to see a fair go and proper representation of Indigenous Peoples. After all this place is supposed to be a democracy. The problem is that we create our electoral boundaries according to geography. I think the best and most logical way of ensuring proper representation of Indigenous peoples is to build those boundaries according to history, culture and connection to the land. No other mob can claim sovereignty or whatever it is your mob call it. So in the true tradition of Australian fairplay - I think we must have all the indigenous peoples elect their representatives and create an Indigenous Peoples' electorates - kind of nation within a nation. Then you can have your own flag and anthem.

I'm a little surprised nobody commented on my point in the first post, don't anybody read other people's posts?

I would have thought some rabid leftists would have attacked it, although I don't see how they could.

Why is it that in the heart of multucultural western Sydney, all the volunteer services, as well as the community minded jobs like the ambulance, police, and fire brigade, are exclusively Anglo's & Europeans - Italians, Greeks, Yugoslavs, German, etc.

Is Australia simply a bank, a place to live, educate your kids, but you always remain loyal to the true homeland?

It really is disgusting that in Fairfield, which would have to be 80% non-European, there are still no non-European migrants who volunteer.

I believe that they volunteer within their own community, but this is ridiculous.

Is it that tolerant Australia, which has policies of deliberate positive discrimination of migrants, not let them join such service jobs? Not let them join the volunteers?

Or are the majority just xenophobic and don't care less about Australia?

I even remember about a year ago, in the Daily Telegraph, there was a full page article about a Muslim who joined the Police. It was evidence that it doesn't happen often. One would imagine that with all the trouble with their youth, they would respect Lebanese faces in the service as they do with security guards at Westfields plaza's.

Incidentally, the businesses learnt to employ Lebanese because the trouble-makers who hang out at the mall asking young women for sex, and bashing Anglo-males for sport, are so racist, they only respect their own kind.

Great future Sydney has got!

Hi Benjamin

Yes, I did take time to read your first post, and I have read your last with interest.

I concur with many of your views. I rarely say anything on OLO about Muslims and Islam - for fear of the white Australian left.

My husband and I are very pleased that we re-located from Sysney to the Sunshine Coast of Qld. Sorry, we do not have to worry about the stuff you speak of.

We live a peaceful life. Even so, I am an advocate for people who have mental health problems, and other people who are disadvantaged. But, I will never support dole bludgers.

You and other readers may think that my reply to you is off on a tangent. Read between the lines, and you will see that is not so.

Cheers
Kaay

Hi Benjamin
If you had read my post you will have noticed that I mentioned that a lot of the volunteer groups I have come in to contact with (and there are a few)can be a bit cliquey. Volunteering is a deeply entrenched australian cultural passtime, helping your mates, and pitching in when the chips are down for your neighbour are highly valued. Can I suggest having family who come from a non anglo background, that some cultures put helping family above all else and don't see volunteering in the community as important as we may. If we also look at how some organisations (eg lifesaving) promote themselves, they don't on the surface appear to be applicable to these people's lives. Not all of us are big bronzed beach lovers, which is why I chose to get on the boats.
And just a quick question back to you about your 80% of Fairfield comment, have you just counted the really big noticeable volunteer orgs? There are many culturally specific community groups around. And where did you get your numbers from or is it a generalisation from your own observations?

By Sha Cordingley, CEO Volunteering Australia: 28 March 2006

Part 1

I was intrigued to read Mirko Bagaric’s article about the Commonwealth Games volunteers posted on 20th March 2006.

Whilst we are in the midst of an intensive five-year campaign (started in the International Year of Volunteers 2001) to promote the fact that healthy communities are about volunteer participation in a multitude of areas, the author is busily injecting value judgement into the type of involvement and its relative merit. Contrary to the view postulated in the article, volunteering is often as much about means as ends.

Volunteering isn’t confined to service delivery to the frail elderly, ‘needy people’, or some form of benign charity stemming from the Poor Laws. Volunteering is about active citizenship and the building of social capital.

In reality, it is a dynamic and evolving activity where choice is fundamental and people use their skills and interests for some community benefit. In 2004 13.4 million Australians donated $5.2 billion to non-profit organisations and an additional $2 billion was raised by people buying raffle tickets. Over 41% of the adult population volunteered their time and skills for a variety of causes including aged care, victims of crime, disability services, asylum seekers and victims of torture as well as a myriad of sporting, cultural and environmental groups. This has been a steady increase from 1995 where the figures were around 24% of the population. How can the accusation that we ‘refuse to assist those in genuine need’ be levelled, when it is quite clear from the statistics that Australia is growing and developing as a volunteering and philanthropic nation.

see part 2 for end of this comment

By Sha Cordingley, CEO Volunteering Australia: 28 March 2006

Part 2 (see part 1 in this forum).

It was said that one of the benefits to Sydney of staging the Olympic Games was that it would gain a unique, trained volunteer workforce. It was also hoped that the event might encourage more people to volunteer for other events or programs. I’m guessing that given the numbers of people already volunteering, a good proportion of the Sydney Olympics and Commonwealth Games volunteers have both a history of giving and volunteering. We know for a fact that the people providing emergency service and sporting support for the Commonwealth Games were already existing volunteers in those areas; and some business sponsors released paid staff to volunteer as part of their overall program of volunteer involvement.

People come to volunteering with many motives and I for one wouldn’t like to judge the merit of their activities against some arbitrary value scale. Plus, apart from anything else we know that many people volunteer for more than one organisation. For example in 2000, over a third of volunteers (35%) had worked for more than one organisation in the preceding 12 months.

The simple proposition that Commonwealth Games volunteers should instead have ‘worked extra hours in their day jobs (assuming they have one) and donated this extra money to feed some of the starving in Africa’ may provide comfort and solution to some – but to me that smacks of the logic my mother used about not leaving food on our plates because there are starving people in the world. Perhaps a more systemic approach to some of the world’s structural problems might be a better solution than bagging a handful for people having fun.

end

The article certainly was mean-spirited and utterly judgemental. I wonder where Mirko volunteers? With Medicines Sans Frontieres?

I volunteer once a week, working with a group of children. I get significant personal joy out of this (very cute kids: and I can give them back later!)- does that make my volunteering for the "wrong" reasons? The more I think about this article, and its bad attitude to all the good things that volunteering does for individuals and the community, whatever the original motivation, the more annoyed I get.