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The Forum > Article Comments > Deepening freeze between Japan and China > Comments

Deepening freeze between Japan and China : Comments

By Henry Leong, published 16/3/2006

The deteriorating ties between China and Japan are becoming critical.

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My first comment, and first in line, quiet daunting. I have just visited the P.M.'s Defence site,
me, a rural Australian township girl, never went past 11th grade Queensland High School, in After War years
but still fresh in the mind of my elders, the horrors of the Japanese inflicted on our Society.
Still, time moves on to an enormous amount of trade between our countries, which includes China.
Japan, like us, has used China as cheap labour, manufactured goods, especially. I have noticed a difference
in persons in official capacity, have one face for Public Diplomacy, and another for trade. The official
news reports will tell us there is friction between two nations, but behind the scenes, trade goes on..
Libya had a sanction on it for years re oil to USA.. No, they did not trade directly, just through the
British. (you can check with National Geographic 1999.)

They P.M.'s department offered an weekly update via e-mail, but some how a 60-69 female of
Asia situation (did not have Australia) with an e-mail address <elida@southernphone.com.au> must have
been too great of a defence risk. I am rejected, and left with an e-mail address to contact, as
.<nfojda@jda.go.jp> Hope you had better success.
Posted by ELIDA, Thursday, 16 March 2006 4:35:33 PM
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Elida back to correct two points, I visited the Japanese site <self defence force> Henry Leong mentions in his article, and when I attempted to save an item, after regestering my e-mail address,it was refused, like it was an attempt of esponarge.
There I missed mentioning it was the "Japanese Prime Minister," and the e-mail address should read <infojda@jda.go.jp> which makes sense, I could have been an angry much wronged, Chinese woman. I am not sorry, for attempting to learn of their intentions. I do not know the correct procedure to ask for information of a foreigncountry'sdefence, as I or my computer has been identified as a potential "spy." I wish someone else would comment. Things are looking grim, like when I could not find anything in HighSchool, or Council Library regards
Japan, and Japanese Culture, back in 1979. Now we are flooded with their propaganda.
Posted by ELIDA, Friday, 17 March 2006 9:31:25 AM
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To me this article highlights just how little I know about the Asia-Pacific region. There is so much focus on what is happening in the Middle East that there is a tendency to miss what is happening elsewhere in the world. I think we need to be better informed of the historical and cultural issues in the Asian region which is poised to become a major player in the not too distant future. More articles like this one would be good, especially if it encourages a greater diversity of posters. Welcome to OLO ELIDA - I am not sure about your conspiracy theories. Usually if I can't find what I am looking for I try 'Google' and generally find a link or two that is useful or at least a starting point. Wikipedia sometimes has some useful stuff - try this for starters:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Japan_relations
Posted by sajo, Friday, 17 March 2006 10:50:38 AM
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Mr Leong largely answers his own questions with his observation that

>>The reality is that the Yasukuni Shrine issue is a thorn in the side of the Beijing leadership but it is one that is kept alive for material and strategic ends.<<

I remember being surprised during my first visit to Taiwan back in the mid-nineties to find that there was a substabtial contingent there that favoured re-unification with the mainland. "After all," they said, "we are all Chinese."

The subtext of course was that even back then, Taiwan was the biggest single investor in mainland China. What we overseas had been privy to was just the sabre-rattling rhetoric. Meanwhile, business - and cultural ties - told a very different story.

China/Japan, follow a very similar pattern. Both countries' cultures involve the complex issue of "face", which makes it virtually impossible for either side to back down publicly. What happens on a daily basis is of course very different, since trade is a mutually beneficial process.

The pot is kept boiling simply because it is just another item to be brought out onto the negotiating table at the appropriate time. Or as Mr Leong puts it "kept alive for material and strategic ends"

Similarly

>>Japan says managing its deteriorating ties with China has become critical amid warnings that military conflict between the neighbours could draw in the United States<<

This is another aspect of the same game. Japan is simply saying to China that they can call upon the support of the US if needed. Much as does Taiwan from time to time.

Whether this would be sustainable if push came to shove is open to conjecture. Which is just another way of saying that the stakes are too high for anyone to call the bluff.
Posted by Pericles, Friday, 17 March 2006 3:35:22 PM
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Henry writes,"China is perhaps the only country that refuses to accept any form of apology and restitution from Japan, and willingly remains a victim of its own bitter memories."

I'm not sure that "victim" is apt. Nor is "the only country..." In my experience, Koreans are not exactly rapt either about any Japanese "form of apology and restitution" that has so far come their way.

Looking on the bright(?) side, because of their low fertility and unenthusiasm about immigrants, in 200 years there will be insufficient Japanese left to worry about, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4552010.stm

This might be a new first in human history: that a worsening political disagreement between two nations resolves itself by the inhabitants of one of the nations conveniently dying out.
Posted by MikeM, Saturday, 18 March 2006 5:57:13 PM
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I haven't read any other post to this article for fear it might cloud what I'm about to say. The Deficit spending limit was just raised by the American Congress to 9 trillion dollars. Japan and China are the nations to which America owes the most. In essence Japan and China own The United States of America. If relations continue to deteriorate between these two countries who has the most to lose? We do? So don't worry, be happy, America is kissing butt all over the world.
Posted by Patty Jr. Satanic Feminist, Sunday, 19 March 2006 3:07:44 PM
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One significant reason for the friendship that now exists between Australia and China must be the fact that we were an ally of China during her war with Japan, and that the suffering of our prisoners-of-war at the hands of the Japanese, particularly on the Thai railway, equalled the suffering of the Chinese people under Japanese occupation, even though it involved far fewer people. Australia's good relations with both Japan and China may make it possible for us to act as a bridge between them, in the same was as we can between China and the United States.
Posted by plerdsus, Sunday, 19 March 2006 4:52:11 PM
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The link between China and Australia that plerdsus mentions is one of many that developed over the 20th century, although it might be remembered that Chinese immigrants to Australia were very poorly treated.

Prompt diplomatic recognition of The People's Republic of China by the Whitlam government following that of the US Nixon Administration in 1972.

Undoubtably significant too is the large Chinese diaspora in Australia, markedly strengthened in recent years by immigration of substantial numbers of well educated Chinese. In contrast there are few Japanese living in Australia and Japan is not a country that welcomes immigrants from other nations.

Would it be true to say that, as a nation, Japan might prefer to lead a secluded, introverted existence, whilst China is extroverted and gregarious?
Posted by MikeM, Sunday, 19 March 2006 7:26:15 PM
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Patty,

The large US trade deficit together with its government's domestic budget deficit are matters of active debate amongst trade economists.

Common sense says that if a country keeps on spending more on imports than it earns on exports, sooner or later it must come a gutser. However common sense is not always a guide in these matters. In most years since Federation, Australia has run a trade deficit and is still doing so, but we are not bankrupt yet.

It is true that in the US, government, the housing market and consumer expenditure are soaking up increasing proportion of the rest of the world's savings. It is also true that the US Administration seems to have no plan to do anything about this, apart from complaining that the Chinese yuan is undervalued. If the rest of the world jacks up by refusing to buy US bonds at current interest rates to fund the continuing deficit, interest rates will rise sharply, the US dollar will drop and we will likely see a recession in the US.

This may well lead to a recession in China, as US purchases of Chinese goods will plummet, and then a recession here, as Chinese purchases of extractable materials will drop.

But global macroeconomic theory is like long-range weather forecasting. Economists and weather forecasters can generally explain after the event why it happened, but are hard pressed to make precise predictions.

Indeed, some economists even say that worrying about the US trade deficit is worrying over a glass half empty. The other side of the coin, the US's burgeoning capital account surplus, is a glass half full. The problem, they say, is a savings glut in Asia - consumers just aren't consuming the way they are supposed to. Surplus cash has to go somewhere to be invested, and the US is obligingly finding a home for it.

There's an op-ed piece on the subject 12 months ago at http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20050421/ai_n14596344 where Jeremy Warner quotes economist Herb Stein's famous dictum: if something can't go on forever then it won't.

Eventually we will see whether Stein was right.
Posted by MikeM, Sunday, 19 March 2006 7:43:10 PM
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