Timberjack; Thanks but the information you outline on stringybark reserves on the NW seems not immediately available to us from the premiers site. But the maps do indicate a large new reserve running northwards up the old pipeline track to the coast from the Savage River iron ore open cut mines. How much tall old growth Messmate have we here?

Readers may be interested to know too, this seemingly huge reserve in total on the western side was not in recent times completely covered in millable timber being quite alpine like in many places. As I said previously the good bits were mostly elsewhere on the agricultural soils at lower altitudes.

Perhaps Timberjack can tell us more about present operations say the in long green forestry indent between the Western Tiers and Cradle Mountain at the southern end of the old Mersey Forth hydro scheme. It’s been a while since the Arm River was opened up.

Perhaps Perseus that can give us the low down on value adding technology inside the proposed pulp mill and the return on federal or state subsidies involved in the forest industry in general now the election is over. Why is there no fine paper or particle board process upfront in the scheme? Exactly where are the resources coming from and who is paying for their developments?

BTW if Perseus thinks his research has found me looking in through strangers then he should explain where he gets his info on the Tasmanian situation from.

Owen; there is no conspiracy as far as I can see. With all this consumerism everybody is a culprit in building demand.

Cont.

Taz
As its clear you are not interested in facts that are provided I see nothing to be gained from engaging with you but it may interest you that once again the people of Tasmania made their feelings regarding forest policy known through a strong democratic process that reflects the will of the people.

It looks like the Greens will loose one member and hopefully two It is satisfying when your vote helps to remove people like the greens from politics.

The surrender speeches were interesting. Ms Putt and Milne both claimed they were robbed of victory through “shadowy” forces which were imposing some sort of 1984 Orwellian vote control over people. These claims infer that the people of Tasmania are easily led and cannot think for themselves. What an insult.

All members of a community - those employed, unemployed, rich doctors (for forests) and poor (timber working) patience, small business and big business, students, and even green organisations (such as the Wilderness Society and the Huon Environmental Centre) have a right to express their views. Even when their wrong.

These views may support a particular candidate, a party, a philosophy or the Greens loony policies. No matter what the outcome, all politicians have a responsibility to accept the will of the people and give voters the respect reflected in their choice on the night.

Ms Putts made a vitriolic and conspiracy filled defeatist speech on Saturday last. It indicated that she considers voters are sheep and easily led by “shadowy figures” and “big business”. What Ms Putt does not realise is that people are smarter than she thinks, and Tasmanian's voted using the freedoms granted under our Democracy. That is how a Democracy works and it is about time the Greens and Taz supported it.

Friends of forests; I now appreciate the tables in the CAR forestry reserve system detailed here;

http://www.premier.tas.gov.au/publications/forest/agreement.pdf?id=14303

46170+6670ha E. obliqua in a total of 857,000 old growth reserves of all types. It also details how the extra commonwealth money will be spent on upgrading Tasmanian forestry operations and timber uses. All in all it’s a great document and a big leap forward. This supplementary RFA outline also details woods left in places remote from Hobart like the Bass Strait islands where residents had no fuel.

I still wonder what’s in the new 30946 area 25 Savage River pipeline reserve in terms of quality timber considering the time forests around the link have been exposed. My interest is in what survives in these wet regions after disturbance and major fires.

Qwen: This is not about far left or right, it’s about what federal taxpayers get for their additional handouts. What do our visitors see now on the restored Abt Railway in the most damaged region in this country?

I note with interest (again) the APVMA decision on the restricted use of CCA treated products like radiata pine for human contact areas. In the mid 60’s I was helping commission new capacity in just one mill in a major city with an ability to wrap the equator with tissue many toilet rolls wide every few hours. My counterparts in SA were doing the same thing. Sydney and Brisbane also had tissue converting plants. Our softwood plantations could quickly dissappear

When I asked about clean up rates in pine plantations after clear felling for timber and paper, Vic,SA, Tas, NSW etc (several decades ago), interstate cartage contractors confirmed prices for NZ pine in our region set the pace here. IMHO; our government forestry agencies back in the early days of generating softwood plantations could not get out of managing hardwood forests quick enough.

Later I watched mature pine plantation timbers being CCA treated and used for log cabin construction in exposed costal areas. IMHO they failed to meet a number of customer’s worst expectations. Cont.

Taz
Great to see you have joined the 85% of Tassie voters that also see the Tasmanian Community Forest Agreement as an achieved balance in forest management for conservation and every day timber needs.

Tassie voters saw the 1 million ha of old growth forest reserved as an achievement worth supporting and I'm pleased that you now see it that way also.

The vast area you ask about in the North West is the green icon called the Tarkine with vast areas of myrtle forest was to have very limited selective harvesting for deep red myrtle but is now reserved.

Taz,
I agree there is no grand conspiracy. Just as Christianity was not taken to the world by "a conspiracy of twelve".
It is more of a common "grass" roots movement where many people breathe and think in unison.

Similarly there is no conspiracy driving the lunacy of so called Smart Growth in cities. It's just that Dense Thinking has many advocates and has seductive appeal.

However, it is useful to compare notes. Those trying to protect their Sustainable forests in Tasmania might find it useful to follow the story of the West Coast Accord and how the game was played out.
Forewarned is forearmed.

Owen

Tasmanian timber cutters, log-truck drivers, mill workers, etc. only see, and will ever see, a pathetic handful of coins compared to the billions in profits siphoned off to Sydney - AMP, etc. Although different groups might have able to agree a bit, the people of Tas are still getting ripped off big time.

What company doesn't try to keep the number of employees and contractors to a bare minimum to keep their costs down? Gunns is the largest woodchipping company in the world. As if they give a crap about how many Tasmanians are employed or not. And as if AMP gives a crap about how many Australians are employed or not.

Sorry fellas, but more skyscapers and mansions in Sydney don't help many Tasmanians.

Timber workers in Tas are getting ripped off, timber workers in South America are getting ripped off, timber workers in South East Asia are getting ripped off. I'm no Greens Party follower, but I'm damned sure the ones in charge are more of a threat to your jobs than some feral uni students.