Corin - I do think primaries are a good idea. But I also think member elections of the National Executive are a good idea and I also think member petitioning to disendorse recalcitrant MP's is a good idea (like private companies have the ability to do with directors). I don't know which one is the "silver bullet" (if there is one at all) but at least I would like a conversation on these things. But I think we agree that we need to open the show up and that is the answer. Our problem is we debate the instrument not the goal.

PK - I remember the controversies over all the Hawke/Keating reforms. HECS, foreign banks etc etc. And your right, we take them for granted now, but not at the time. However, my basic point remains the same. Today, there is no way the ALP would go against the grain - they would side with the oppositionists. That's the key difference. A choice between the right road or the easy road, today we choose the easy road. Back then, it was the right road.

Your spot on. I did work for Latham and like all jobs, there are things I wish I had done and things I wished I hadn't - but I put my hand up for both. No walking away from the truth. But hey that's life. You do, you learn, sometimes you regret and quite often you wish.

Alex

From a someone with left leaning sypathies (only) l reckon Labour should just give up. Quit while they are behind. Get rid of the dead wood. They are only drifting aimlessly in their own seas of personal ambition. Beazley is a joke to the point of embarrassment. He didnt just appear out of thin air. The party room put him at the helm and it speaks for itself.

In Australia, voters dont really vote in a government, they vote one out. Howard, whatever one's political opinion, is a consumate politician of the highest order (thats not a compliment). He knows how to play the game. He knows where the buttons are and when to push them.

If people want to make things better, dont sit around waiting for a politician to do it on the back of voter complaints. Change things, starting at home. That is the essence of how we allow the political process to nueter ourselves. Take back responsibility and accountability. Dont let them drag you down.

From an old Cockie. Thanks for very interesting posts, mates.
Also keep up the cynicism - stirring makes such a potent political stew. Finally, it all might help Labor get real, if it returned to Keymesian mixed economics, the days of WW2 thanksgivings and the truly gracious Marshall Plan, despite the threat of Stalinism. My God, how did we get into the rottem mess we are now in, with our media magnates jumping for joy at the Western world's preponderance of new billionaires?

Besides Beazley promoting on media tonight his plan to help the busy or working mother, by attaching child care facilities to Primary Schools and other institutions.

Liberal retort to this idea, was the financial aspect and it economical practibility.

That is such a visionary thought of Kim's that after 30 years to help us tend to the kids so it is easy to drop them off to be mothered by someone else whilst we go out and maintain our daily roles and work routines for the economy.

It is also interesting that along with the Imported worker, Australian tax payers are also burden with the education of their children that so often accompany them.

Also the children do not speak English and are of school age, our burgeoning, taxed education budget is now having to be adjusted at a cost of what, to support this new epidemic.

Great "Industrial Workplace Agreement", assistance, Kim.

Thanks mate for the fair go!

If you look at the Crean/Latham train wreck [it had to be no chance ever existed they could rule] Labor has come back from true death.
Seen for what it is true renewal the pre selection war? is good for Labor.
For the left to blame it on factionalism is a huge laught.
Labor is renewing and a by election now to put Bill Shorten in the house is another step, lets do it! party first, well just behind the voters.
A question for Simon Crean , any thoughts on your next job?

In many ways I think Tony Blair is the UK version of the "drover's dog". He promised to be a more compassionate conservative , and has achieved that lofty goal.

Federal Labor really only needs to appear unified, keep chipping away at John Howard, and not embarass themselves in public.

Some may say that this is a small target approach and we should huff and puff about shiny new policies. Let's get real - nobody cares about most Government policies let alone Opposition policies 12 months or more from an election.

Stop looking for magic bullets - the last one (Latham) shot us all in the foot.