The fashion industry is dominated by women and gay men - hence the figure whose smaller breast and lean look are more reminiscent of an adolescent boy, rather than a real woman. Some female designers, my fashion-conscious sister has told me, are designer clothes over the last year which have been more tailored to the true female form.

Advertisers are suitably faceless and amorphous that its easier to blame them than anyone else. They are just selling the garbs created by designers. There is no social direction given to fashion design, only a desire to make something nove and appleaing, and push boundaries. Societal dress standards moderated the aforementioned process, and that, it seems, is what many people want.

To a certain degree, the sentiments and "culture" (to degrade the word) of the youth of today influence what they want to buy, and to a certain degree it is conformity. That wouldn't be a problem if they were conforming to something that professed to protect dignity and inspire respect, however that is not what the fashions of today do necessarily.

In conclusion, there is no single person or group you can blame for this, no elusive "patriarchy" either seeing as women and making these choices, and (along with the effeminate) are facilitating it by designing. The lack of a voice from "society" means we feel (and are) powerless to enforce the basic standards which would slow and temper the process of change.

PK and DFXK,

I am sure that it is a circle. But if I think of how difficult and hurtful it is for my female friends to conform to the standards of beauty presented to them by the media, I have the impression that the power seems to be more on the side of the firms.

Think of the huge number of girls with eating disorders, there doesn't seem to be much purposeful choice there. Why should you choose to starve yourself to reach a weight way below what's healthy for you?

The fact that they are not all young, sure, but they were once, and if they have been influenced as girls by certain standards they are likely to still be influenced unless they consciously challenge them as adults.

On the society's fault point, I agree with you that there is a danger that people might blame "society" for everything without taking responsibility themselves. But then, we must also recognise the kind of pressures individuals are liable to if we are to be fair.

Otherwise we run the opposite risk, to say it is all down to individual choice when in fact people are strongly influenced by the society they live in, in ways that are sometimes very hard to resist.

If, as a society, we put no limits, for example, to how much kids are bombarded with ads we can't very well turn around and say that the attitudes and tastes they devellope are nothing to do with us and just a matter of individual choice, especially when the ads get them to think and behave in ways that are negative for them and everybody else.

On patriarchy, patriarchal systems are not ones which are imposed only by men, they are systems which favour men and give them more power and authority.

But women have often, if not always, participated in their pepetuation. This doesn't change the fact that, as a system, it tends to favour men. This is not to my mind about men versus women, it's about the kind of society we wish to build together.

Schmuck, loved that last point you made.

On the broarder topic it probably is a circle. As adults we can opt in or out to varying degrees and accept the associated consequences.

Definitely harder for kids - for one thing peer pressure is much more direct. We can do our best as parents to try to teach our kids values which will help them deal with this stuff. We can model the kind of lives and values we hope our kids will hold. I suspect that the direct influences are a much bigger issue than adds in magazines - do their friends devalue overweight people, do their parents devalue overweight people. Some will get it wrong but if we do our bit they have a much better chance.

R0bert

Robert,

yap! I totally agree with the points you make. It cannot be just ads, it is the values we hold more generally. It must be tough for parents, I am sure.

I just wanted to add a couple of definitions, I had the feeling we all had different things in mind when referring to patriarchy, so I looked it up:

From the concise Oxford dictionary

patriarchy
• noun (pl. patriarchies) 1 a form of social organization in which the father or eldest male is the head of the family and descent is reckoned through the male line. 2 a system of society in which men hold most or all of the power.

matriarch

• noun 1 a woman who is the head of a family or tribe. 2 a powerful older woman.
— DERIVATIVES matriarchal adjective matriarchy noun.

it seems to me feminists have point 2 in mind

also in relation to rancitas post above, it seems that by definition patriarchy and matriarchy are incompatible...

Scmuck: if, as you suggest, young girls are too young to resist the images shoved at them by the fashion industry to be able to make a responsible choice about the way they dress, there is something at hand to assist them. It is called 'parents'. As the parents of a teenage daughter, my partner and I often exercise this guidance and if necessary, veto over dress standards. We talk about issues of gender stereotyping and the like. I am sure most parents do likewise. I am not going to blame the fashion or marketing industries for the way my daughter turns out. None of us are helpless victims of big business.

PK,

No, of course, I agree with you. All I was trying to point out is that first of all, not all young girls are as fortunate as your daughters, some lack this kind of careful guidance and attention unfortunately, and I think as a society we have a responsibility towards them.

Secondly, I think it would make the parents’ job easier if we were, as a society, to encourage big firms to be a bit more responsible in deciding which models of behaviour and values they choose to publicise. I don’t see what would be wrong with that, to be honest with you; after all, people making these decisions are fellow citizens and parents, too!