osdoc,

I think you need to do some revision on the birds and the bees. People who come from a long line of Yorkshire stock, or any other fair group, don't suddenly pop up looking like indigenous Australians for no reason.

And, if you don't mind, I don't fear or hate anyone.

Dear Leigh
Reality is reality. My brother-in-law is a naturalized immigrant born and bred in Yorkshire on both sides for many, many generations - I think my wife and her family know their family tree pretty well. And Shirley Bassey, Tom Jones and a whole swag of other Northern Europeans could also be adduced. Just because you don't know any darker skinned (no not black, just darker skinned) Welsh, Fins, Danes, and the like - none of them remotely descended from Africans, Aboriginal Australians, or any other non-European origin - doesn't mean they don't exist. Your prejudices and ignorance don't constitute an argument against fact.
Odsoc

A bit off topic, I'm afraid, but odsoc should be told.... Shirley Bassey's father, Henry Bassey, was a Nigerian sailor.

As for "The notion of US citizens thinking that disagreement with their government is un-American, is itself un-American - see for example Henry David Thoreau, Thomas Paine, and any number of others since", I had more recent history, specifically post 9/11, Patriot Act, phone-tapping etc George W Bush in mind.

I still can't get the article to pass the "if so, what then?" test.

Do dolphins have cultural subgroups?

Do dogs have nations?

Do apes have races?

Seems we humans are looking a bit silly on all this.

Humans are tribal, mostly (sport club tribes, business tribes, fashion tribes, hip hop tribes, etc). The whole notion of anything besides a tribe seems like we are just flattering ourselves.

Last time I checked, we are all brothers and sisters. Isn't it about time we all grew up, put aside our narcissistic need to believe we are better than our neighbour, and realised that we're all the same and should speak so?

One day, the aliens are going to come, and they're going to think that it's pretty silly that we draw these arbitrary barriers between ourselves. “Explain to me again why your tribe is just so different to the other tribes all over the place? I can’t see it…..you’re all as dumb and self-centred as each other. Plus, all you honkies look alike to me.”

Hundreds of years from now, our children’s tribes will look back on us, and laugh at our nation-state silliness.

[“National identity” is tyranny. If you argue that all Australia’s citizens must accept a “national identity” you are espousing the primacy of one culture over others within our borders.]

I hear echo's of the Green left weekly or International Socialism in such a patently naive or maliciously deliberate statement.

I say "Primacy" ?- ABSOLUTELY -(inclusive)Primacy (not Tyranny) is probably the best word you could use.

OPEN BORDERS ?
National identity is about territory. If you fail to protect and superintend it.. you will LOSE it. Has history taught you nothing ? I'm detecting the need for heavy duty therapy in some here.

Then, when when the shock of waking up one day to find some group which while still being a minority, but tied together by culture, religion, language and/or former geogrpahical location, have managed to position themselves in a politically powerful way as to basically control or at least steer this country's political situation, they will whine.

It already has happened (Fowler NSW) and in any case, ethnic minorities are VERY atuned to political opportunity and weakness.
I've been there, and done that. In a closely contested federal election it takes just ONE seat to determine the following:

-Who becomes Prime minister
-What policies are implemented and who they benefit.
-The historical direction of the country.
-Immigration policy

In my case, the 'one' seat happened to be a Christian area, which was (in the end) seduced by wall to wall/floor to ceiling outboard motors in brand new cartons, provided by a National Muslim government, because they also knew the strategic value of that ONE seat.

THEY ARE DIFFERENT...SO WE HATE THEM.
if EVER I've heard an over used, hackneyed, flogged to death cliche it is this one. It is about as shallow and sullied as empty political rhetoric can ever be !

Failure to acknowledge difference is (to use Pericles' golden phrase) to put the cart..... etc. Awareness of Difference does NOT mean a sense of self superiority.. when will this sink into the many THICK heads and blinkered eyes abounding on the bleeding heart side of these debates.

"Once “national identity” is truly in the bin, we could consider a new term to replace it - “world citizenry” perhaps." Sociology meets Globalisation. A citizen of the world would become even less significant when placed in a larger pond presided over by an even more remote authority. The ideology is laudable but in real terms, no thanks.

Of course race exists, even if its basis is not in empirical science. Stephen, you are a practicing member of the Anglican Church. Does God exist? Prove it. That you cannot lay the indisputable facts before me doesn't mean that I, and I assume you, no longer believe.

With the ability of sight comes the wonderful capacity to recognise difference. The recognition of difference does not necessarily put into train a hierarchy of superiority with oneself at the top. Many do, of course, and that will always be the case whether it is called 'race', 'world citizen' or 'homogenised organism previously known as [insert racial grouping here]'.

I would doubt that it would be a prudent step to politely inform a proud Scot or Palestinian or Aboriginal that they are not really there and that their historical battles were for squat.

BOAZ_David sets out a pragmatic view of the world around us more eloquently that I could. We are so used to searching out complexity in the world around us that, sometimes, we fail to see the simply obvious.