Kanga,
Your last two posts were excellant. You did not miss much. Just wish you spaced the last one out a bit. I will save them for future reference.

As I said before, both major parties have high immigration policies because big business dictate the policies. They pay the piper and call the tune. Big business do not care how long it takes you to get to work or how long ques are, or the crush of communters, shoppers, etc. Or reduced good farmland or enviromental impacts. They simply want to sell more consumer goods, land and houses.

Farmers are continually being pushed out onto marginal country and I could cry to see beautifull farm and pasture land being covered with houses, bitumen and concrete. Then, the smart people we are, import food. Don't even mention our depleted fish stocks. Brilliant!

Like the drover said. "The more I see of people, the more I like me dog"

Very well said Daggett. Surely the primary role of the Democrats is to oppose this complete future-destroying lunacy. Celebrating a population of 4 million in Queensland (and it was such a short time ago that we ‘celebrated’ 3 million) and encouraging rapid continuous population growth, while some our most fundamental indicators are steadily worsening, is insane. We are constantly told that we need this sort of growth in order to increase economic growth, in order to improve services and quality of life. The complete opposite is happening.

If the Democrats were to really get stuck in to fighting this absurdity and push for real sustainability in a genuine and concerted manner, they WOULD find a rebirth. They WILL save themselves from extinction.

The time is absolutely right to do this. There is enough support across the country for it to really take off.

The question is, will the Democrats drive it? Will the Greens drive it? Will we have to start up a new party to drive it? Or will we just blunder on into oblivion

Kanga… my compliments.

It is truly rampant capitalist consumerism that is driving this human train to the end of the line – over the American Grand Canyon if I were to place blame in a metaphor…. and with the assistance of out-dated, egocentric religious enterprise in it’s rubber-tree preserving attitudes (to drive the metaphor further!)

Economic models have proven that 0-growth sustainability is possible. That wealth creation – over the long period (rather than the current ‘want it now’ model) can work and is better for all – all classes of society and all classes of life on this blue-green rock.

Unfortunately between amoral people (of religious and non-religious bents), we ride the ‘last train out’ unless we can find the emergency brake.

And if we do not, at least I can spend the remaining time wondering what the next life-form on this galactic oasis will look like!

ANDREW THANKS FOR GETTING BACK TO US

It is good that you care enough about this debate to take time to follow up on your article.

However I don’t think you’ve really got the stabilisation idea. You say that if we go along with 1.7 million and 110,000 annual net migration we’ll “only” hit 30 million in 2100. It’s taken us 218 years to reach 20 million, i.e. around 10 million a century, and you don’t seem to see anything too much wrong with another 10 million this century, i.e. business as usual.

Population stabilisation and business as usual are two different things. We actually have 1.8 fertility and at least 110,000 net migration (if you take the informals into account), thanks to the rapacious greed of the Liberal Party who are busy trying to turn their already huge fortunes into humungous fortunes.

What Australia needs is someone with the courage and foresight to go along with the Academy of Science 1994 recommendation of aiming for a plateau of 24 million by around 2040 – that means cutting net overseas migration to approx 40,000. Note that is net i.e. you still get 70,000 coming in – you still honour your international refugee obligations, have some family reunion, but you cut skilled and business, i.e. stop raiding (generally) less affluent nations for their professionals and capitalists.

You said “We can’t keep looking for excuses to continue our grossly inefficient ways” – you seem to think stabilisation would give us an excuse to continue to be environmental vandals. The latest State of the Environment report (Commonwealth Government) shows all our environmental indicators going backwards with our present population. Stabilising would at least give us breathing space so we could really tackle the environmental problems and set up a truly sustainable society.

I do not argue for zero net migration. I just want to see population growth halted in Australia, then Australia can start working with other countries to stabilise their populations. By the way, have you had a chance to look at Al Bartlett yet?

Ponder for just a moment, and use the thing we evolved through the eons and mists of time to place us at the head of all species on this wonderful home called Earth, Gaia, or whatever.

The fore-brain, the wonderful faculty of perception! Yet think of the immense good that could have been achieved if Einstein's theorum, Max Plancks works, and all involved in the making of the most destructive device known to us thus far was channelled into a benificent purpose.

What if Adolf Hitler himself had been not as he was, malignant, but instead used the powers he possessed to do good. Likewise, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Saddam, Milosevic, & all the other monsters throughout history.

20,000,000 Russians, collectively 6 million?, (of Semitic origins) - Gypsies, Jews and on the list goes. Where would all these people, their decendants, and kin be today?

To paraphrase Gene Roddenberry (Creator of Star Trek) we have to remove all of our prejudices, not just religious, but those involving home, family and all that we hold dear../ then & maybe then, clear out the debris held in our minds so we can see more clearly.

Some would see this in the light of a castration complex... "I can't do that..." Even the most eminent folk amongst us today can not manage this for even a few hours so it appears.

An interesting concept none the less - would there be anyone willing to go there?

Wars benefit only the oligarchs, industrialists and Bastards Incorporated. They have unfortunately had the side effect of culling, in the worst sense, our populations.

The next 10 - 15 years will be critical for everyone. Let us not leave a dying legacy to the next generation.

Dear Albie Manton

Yeah - all done in the name of liebensrum - room to live!

It didn't seem to occur to Herr Hilter (sorry, can't resist the misspelling) that his glorious volks could simply stop multiplying, rather than expanding at the expense of the rest of Europe. In that sense, he is not all that different from Herr Bush, who is presiding over the one of the fastest pop growth rates of OECD nations.

By the way, I recall that many years ago the Chairman of the ABC was a certain Talbot Duckmanton. When he visited the Orange (NSW) office of the ABC he was a guest of the local manager, who lived on a farm, where there was a dam with a pet duck on it. He asked what the duck's name was, and was told it was "Manton".

Goodnight, and good luck