Andrew,

Your statement "A few politicians have tried to tap into and exploit this community concern, but most others have just ignored these fears, preferring not to confront them except when absolutely necessary." shows considerable ignorance and I can only assume you are not aware of the Howard government in this regard. "A few"!!

Howard has traded on fear, of race, interest rates, terrorists, anyone Labor, education, health and whatever else they can dream up.

As to immigration and the supposed need to continue growing our population, who decided that issue? We constantly hear about skills shortages, fear of the future having too many dependants and so on. And as others have mentioned Australian businesses are increasingly sending Australian jobs overseas. Why? It's not lack of skills, it's the cost of the Australian skills isn't it? We import people and export jobs. Sound dangerous to anyone? Anyone?

How on earth could our governments cope with more population when they have ALL dropped the ball on infrastructure over the last 20 years. Our current infrastructure is bursting at many seams and yet still the drive is on growing. Growing means higher demands on water and a high price for water does not make it any more avai;able does it.

Now we hear we have to ration water, increase water prices and more. Why? Simple, because governments only see the next election, no more. But we must have more skilled immigrants. Why?

ANDREW

I have to support Fida's post about Islam and 'other' religions.
Please do some reading on the expansion and fundamentals of this movement. NOT from sites like the ICV or other Islamic sites which always without fail give the 'sugar coated' version.

Read Sura 23 and see how this 'divinely inspired/eternal word of Allah' (i.e. according to many schools of Islamic jurisprudence is NOT subject to contextual understanding) .. impacts on non Islamic societies.

Verse 5-6 You must guard your modesty (refrain from sex) with all but:
a) wives
b) those who your right hand posseses. (captive girls)

Now.. you might counter with "Ah but 'mainstream' Muslims don't take such a literal view" hmmm how recent is Ayatollah Khomeini... ? he changed the marraigable age for girls to NINE. Iran only recently raised the marraige age to 15.

Shia Islam is VERY mainstream in Iran...

Besides this, the basic position of Islam is:

"The world belongs to Allah AND His messenger." You only have to scratch under the surface of a reasonably educated religious muslim to find this. (Its from a Hadith)They might not admit it in an interview with the Herald Sun, but see what they say when the Imam discusses with them.

We have had a number of people arrested recently who are suspected of (among other things) "Assasination plot for John Howard and his FAMILY".

The problem with Islamic immigration is simple.

1/ There IS a clash of civilizations going on now.
2/ The 'war on terror' is in reality a war on radical(Quranic) Islam
3/ We are of the 'West'
4/ We will be identified as 'The enemy' by radical Muslims
5/ Wherever we are involved in this very real WAR, it will breed home grown radicals here. The concept of 'Muslim Brotherhood' is not just the name of a movement in Egypt, it is a wider concept.

Sharia Law
Children under Islamic law are perceived as the “substance of the male,” merely incubated by the female body without any biological or genetic contribution".

Andrew, you are very much mistaken, if you think that Islam is not a political religion. In fact thats the very problem!

If you feel like reading, Ali Dashti's "Twenty Three Years" will give you a historical background to Mohammed and the Koran. Dashti was an Iranian, who was tortured to death by Kohmeini at 86, but the English version of his book sold in huge numbers after is death. Muslims are well aware that they are unable to express their free opinions about their religion. Dashti waited until after his death to make sure it was published, for very good reasons.

Islam is about a whole way of life, with rules and regulations for everything, thats where Sharia law comes in. They never experienced the separation of church and state as we did in the West, in fact that again is the problem.

If you want to know about radical Islam, read what Sayiid Qutb wrote in "Milestones". Its freely downloadable from the net. It seems to me that many Aussie politicians only see the world from their little perspective, forgetting that others have a whole different agenda and perspective.

Andrew, I am having problems with your blanket assertion that “I’m not aware of any religions that can be equated with a political ideology”. That must take a truly trained eye to be so selective in the world that it views. Surely fundamentalism of any persuasion is basically political as well as religious in character. To ascertain Islam as purely religious in a secular society is courting an uncomfortable premise that politics is not preached from the pulpit of many, if not all, mosques. A quick glance at many of the conflicts around the globe will come up with a surprising incidence of commonality.

I apologise if I have offended any Muslim readers here and I must add that I am not versed in the Koran or your faith but the actions of too many people, in too many countries, have spoken louder than many of the words that have come out in defence of your faith.

It may be true, Andrew, that we have more water per capita than many countries, but few would have such a limited supply to service such a large area. If immigration was to be encouraged, that would have to be addressed and we would possibly see a future limiting the amount of water needed to sustain the environment, as it is increasingly needed to service the population. The Snowy Mountains Hydroelectric and Irrigation Scheme is a case in point.

The wastefulness that you so rightly point out has to be curbed just to stop the water restrictions that are necessary with the current population.

Jolanda

Your posting Jan 28 400 refers Aboriginals having been dealt an injustice then further - the Aboriginal plight etc–

I have often wondered about these issues and I do so not attempt here too under rate the trauma or belittle the apparent suffering of Aboriginal people.

My question to you in light of your statement is two fold.

First.

How is their plight any different from the rest of us? If one looks back in to the past of any if not all, we have pain and suffering it is the nature of the history of mans walk down the road from where he was, to where he is, to where he is going.

My paternal family had a farm in Lincoln, which had a history back to pre the Romans. The Celts, the Romans, the Saxons, the Normans, the Vikings, who then ruled Lincoln and York for 300 hundred years. They all raided, conquered, took, stole, raped, pillaged, plundered, and mated.

All this traumatised shocked, terrorised, and in the process they alienated and stole land, woman and enslaved the able. Most of this was done with utter savagery and little post action counselling.

Some survived, some did not - we learnt, we improved a little, we fell back, got up, had another go and got on with it - in time we become more civilised hopefully improving as we went on.

My point is, is not this – mans path…his way.

Second.

Culture is fundamental to us all some understand this more then others. Others give culture greater emphasis then others. But why is that Western Culture is seen so often as the villain the plunderer the spoiler.

Why do we not have one day at least a year to celebrate the efforts of those who have invented - penicillin, flight, electricity, mobile telephones etc

Western civilisation has done more for man collectively then any other group. All humanity benefits immensely - why not say thankyou to all these man and woman and their collective efforts in all disciplines.

Tribal,the phrases and thoughts that enable you ask these very questions,makes you also Western.

The west is responsble for all manner of ills.Medicine and Vacinines that prolong life.Agricultural technology that produces too much food for humans to over populate this planet.

The Industrial and computer revolutions that give us too much time to think about how badly done by we are or time to move to a higher consciousness.

Nuclear technology that can supply almost unlimited energy or a nuclear wasteland.

It all depends upon our ability to face the reality.If the Western civilisation didn't do it,Japan or China wouldn't have been far behind.

How empty or how full is this cup of life?The choice is both yours and the rest of humanity.