Susan this seems a bit hysterical to me.

Firstly, I'm not sure I understand why people home-schooling their children wouldn't agree to submit to registration (except for an aversion to government interaction of any kind) and I'm not sure I understand why you think home-schooling parents wouldn't be organised enough to take a serious path to home-schooling their kids.

The kind of "truancy issues" you identify sound like they arise from a tantrum: "yeah, screw you school, I'm going to home school my kid!" as opposed to the kind of careful planning that home-schooling requires. I'm not advocating for victims of bullying to stay in schools where they are unsafe, but surely any kind of regulation would be mindful of this given the government's responsibility to attempt to ensure the safety of kids in their care.

Secondly, for home-schooling to maintain its credibility as an educational option, let's give it the opportunity to be accountable in the way that other methods of schooling currently are. To say that as a parent schooling my children at home I shouldn't be responsible to the same sorts of checks and balances as private, non-government, religious and public schools currently are seems strange. And if my educational outcomes for my kids are good, I want people to know about it!

You are right to say that there will always be some kids who don't meet minimum benchmarks set, but without a knowledge of those minimum benchmarks, how can home-schooled kids excel?

And what of the collection of data in the home-schooling system for those who do not register - let's put all this information on the record so that home schooling can be taken seriously, not written off as some kind of whacky notion.

It is not the registration that many home educators are objecting to, it is the fact they are to be forced to register under undisclosed regulations. This is hardly democratic.
Additionally it is the fact the government is seeking to limit peoples options when it comes to the education of their children.
The government seems to be happy to pay lip service to the idea of a parents, right to choose, and decries any notion of the fact they are trying to force all to comply with one standardised educational system. However the reality is they are using frightening Orwellian legislation to force all educational movements to conform to the one ideal.

Seether, currently in Victoria there exists adequate legislation pertaining to home education. The onus is upon the parents to provide regular and efficient tuition. Home educators are happy to provide proof of regular and efficient tuition, and always have been.

The problem is that the new legislation is so badly defined it can allow for any level of administrative abuse to occur. Home educators are to be forced to comply with unwritten rules, surely this would be disturbing to anyone

This new law is being brought in despite the fact that home education works very well in Victoria. The Government has done no studies to determine the impact of compulsory registration. They are insisting upon it’s introduction, even though, compulsory registration has proved a failure in other states

Seether,
It is you who assumes that home educators “wouldn't be organised enough to take a serious path to home-schooling their kids.” On the contrary, home educators are deeply committed to education. Parents who choose to home educate have the educational welfare of their children at heart –why else would they make the considerable effort involved?

There are many reasons why we are against regulation. A simple registration procedure would not be a problem. It is the invasive, insidious and bureaucratic regulations that will accompany it that we are not keen on.

Regulations designed for institutional schooling (based on classroom teaching) do not transfer easily to home education which, by its very nature, is far more individual.

Home educators utilize various educational methods and resources in order to suit their child’s learning style. Regulation to force home education to conform to the state curriculum, approved texts and teaching methods would negate their freedom to choose an alternative or more effective course for their individual child.

Many children are withdrawn from the school system because they are failing. Their concerned parents want to bring them up to a decent level of literacy and numeracy. If parents are forced to conform to the same program that is delivered in school, it will be far harder to reverse the failure.

Home education works. There is now extensive research that proves this. Home education meets the real standards - the standards set by employers and universities who are both actively seeking out home ed graduates.

The education department does not have one true way to educate –in fact judging by the continually falling standards in state schools –they are long way from figuring it out. Until they do, let them regulate themselves and allow those who have discovered their own solutions to get on with it

Susan Wright's opinion is correct, correct and correct. But it doesn't go far quite enough, I believe.

It is important to understand and illuminate the underlying philosophy of Kosky and her party's motives. The Australian Labor Party, and no doubt Kosky herself, are seriously committed to the concepts of socialism and the doctrines of Karl Marx. Marxism advocates a social responsibility for the state to manage children and remove them from parental influence and control.

This has many advantages in the Marxist economic model. Firstly and fore mostly it is designed to put all children into one social class. That's the most important principle they all work towards - elimination of individual advantage and inheritance. You see, everybody's got to be equal, comrade.

Secondly, it ensures that they can brainwash the kids to a standard philosophy - Marxism - without pesky parental values being imposed, like sexual morality or religion or economic class influences. They do not want you, the parent, to have anything to do with the social education of your own kids. You are there to feed them and clothe them and ensure they attend the mandatory schooling only.

Controlling your children is in the long term interest of their ambitions and of course they'll argue, a fair and equal society. That's their party platform.

That's why Kosky puts into place regulations to control home schooling. She wants control of your kids. And that's why the legislation will be written in open and loose terms for now, to allow her all and any kinds of interpretation later. And that's why she's used opportune timing to release the document at a politically advantageous time as has been pointed out in the article. She does not want people discussing the matter like this.

I believe this proposed legislation is not to be trusted and I venture to say, is not in the best interests of anyone's children - especially yours.

Thanks everyone for your responses to my queries/concerns.

I'm not at ALL arguing that home schooling parents don't care about their kids schooling - far from it. My parents seriously considered it as an option for my sister and I, and I'm not suggesting for a second that mainstream education should be the only option open to kids.

My point was that if you are serious about home schooling (which I have no doubt most people are) then red tape needn’t be a deterrent to it, the same way that the alleged “hassles” of having a home-birth don’t deter women who choose that path.

Given that no one has seen the guidelines being suggested, is it a little bit premature to assume that they must, as they are being suggested by government, necessarily be bad?

Parents should have the choice to school their kids at home, in the private system: take advantage of new education thinking like Steiner, or Montessori or IB or any other educational system they think will work best for their kids – I just can’t see the harm in governments moving to help satisfy themselves that ALL educational systems provide the best outcomes for kids – we could even hope that this would be the basis for a stronger range of options for all those seeking educational pathways for their children.

Hi Seether

Maybe you are somewhat missing the point. There ARE no guidelines at this stage. If the Act is passed in current form, as I understand, the guidelines can change at a whim...without having to go through parliament. If the government requires minimum standards let them be up front and tell us the standards required.

Hi Seether, it is true, we have not seen these regulations. However, the regulations proposed in the 1992 bill that attempted to legislate against home education in Victoria included:
The provision to enforce the manner of instruction, the curriculum, the method of teaching and the range of subjects.
Only 4 children were allowed to be home educated in one family.
There were extensive powers for officials to enter home educator's property when they wished, and to demand information.
A prosecution could be brought against a family without them even being present at the hearing and there was provision for children to be forcibly removed from their homes. A successful prosecution would have constituted a criminal offence.

Many of those who were behind this bill in ’92, are behind this current legislation. This new legislation looks less threatening but, the vagueness of it actually allows for all of those ‘92 regulations to be implemented. If the Victorian Government's true intention is for minimal regulation, why then is this not reflected in the bill?

Re Home Schooling:

Well what a trendy new invention. Protective mothers for whatever reason deciding that they are competent enough to give their children education, social interaction, sports and exposure to technology is just not on.

I support the government 100%, the child will do better at school. If we want to end social interaction as we know it, keep home schooling these sheltered little angels.

Bullying is part of life. Your child must face it, conquer it or deal with it. This is life. it is terrible, but we cant wrap kids in cotton wool, they need to experience it and it is part of growing up.

The government should decide, not the mother, not the child.

Homeschooling...a trendy new invention?? Maybe you should research when and why mass schooling began!

Imagine if they brought in the four children law...how would I decide which of my two children would be 'punished' with the school system. Better start behaving kids!

Hi Realist,
Before posting such a forceful outburst on a public forum, perhaps it would be wise to acquaint yourself with a few facts about the movement you oppose.

The fact you have described home education as a new idea would indicate that you know little about the subject. Home education has a history much older that the mass education you so caustically champion.

As to your comment that the child will do better in school, extensive research proves you wrong. Home educated children often out perform their schooled peers in standardised testing. Many school children are functionally illiterate by the time they leave school. Many have poor numeracy skill. Not so home educated children.

You concern regarding social interaction is unfounded, research shows that home educated children are more often better socialised than school children, as they mix with a large variety of people every day, and are not simply stuck in a classroom with one adult and 25 children of the same age.

There are those who have difficulty coming to terms with the notion of home education. This is due to the fact that home education requires the ability to think outside the box. Some people have become so institutionalised they can not see that education is not confined to school.

Come on folks - let's see the new legislation for what it really is.
The ALP and the Minister are representing the interests of the Australian Education Union. How many home educators are paid up union members? How many kids are leaving the state system to get away from the appraoch to education that is supported by the AEU? The ALP /AEU are doing what they do best - protecting the interests of teachers. In this case by restricting the move to home education. Nothing surprising in that.

First of all we should realise that this is an exposure draft for the new Victorian Education Act.

I think the whole idea is to gauge public opinion on the proposed DRAFT laws.

This debate has been hijacked by the Home Schooling brigade. If you wish to home school that is your right, but the Govt. also has a right to make sure that this is being done properly.

Whether it is for reasons of a better education, bullying etc. most home schoolers do not want anything to do with the education system that they see as failing thier children.

Sorry you are living on another planet if you think that Govts of any persuasion will not want to regulate your life on any matter.

Home schooling may very well be the best option for many but can you honestly say that you have not heard of a case of child minding not education in home schooling?

Susan, You are lucky to be able to home school you kids. Many do not have the ability to do so, most for financial reasons others for intellectual.

My car is registered, so is my dog, so is my tax file number. Why shouldn't we register people who want to home school?

It may be a way to protect kids and to ensure they really are being schooled.

Sadly Steve, you do not appear to have read the comments correctly. Home educators are more concerned with the fact they are being forced to register under as yet undisclosed regulations. It is hardly unreasonable that when someone is asked to adhere to rules, they are first informed what those rules are.

Your view that an exposure draft is to allow the public time to comment on proposed legislation is correct. However, how is the Government able to gauge public opinion on the draft, when it was released a couple of days before the Christmas school holidays, and the closing date for comments is before the school year commences.

People have to know about the draft before they can form an opinion about it. The timing of the draft would seem to indicate the Government has no wish for any public debate on this bill.

By the way regarding your comment “you are living on another planet if you think that Govts of any persuasion will not want to regulate your life on any matter.” I find this somewhat disturbing. Perhaps if we were living in a totalitarian state, the Government would have the right to regulate my life on any matter, however thankfully we do not

Susan Wight : As I. F. Stone once said, "Never believe anything until it is officially denied". It's pretty brazen isn't it?

Seether : You first-name from behind your own incomplete or perhaps made-up name and idly suggest hysteria, all in your opening sentence. From your comments, it seems clear that you have either an unstated interest here, or else are a little naive about institutional business-as-usual, or both.

Maximus : The early Marx is actually quite accurate about the tendencies of mass institutions. His biggest fault was that he couldn't bring himself to believe so bleak a prospect as his early analysis suggested, and so went on to elaborate his own particular message of hope... The ALP, by the way, whatever its history, is barely even socialist today. It is is not Ms. Kosky's 220,000 pa salary, government car with driver, extra government car for self-drive, and contempt for her electorate that put the lie to her Socialist Left posturings. What really does it is her contract with Boston Consulting Group to do workforce projection, so that the government can tell how many children it needs to turn toward what destiny. This is neither left-corporate nor right-corporate, just corporate. You'll get not a squeak from the other side of the house on that one. It is the sort of thing that they too would have considered prudent. And more than a few of them would like to turn poorer stay-at-home Mums into taxpayers, and the young children they are forced to leave into child care recipients.

Realist : Hah ha ha ha ha ha. Tee hee. This thread was beginning to run out of humour.

Tasman : The union has such an interest, but so do a lot of other people. Think about the wonderful supply contracts that a 6 to 7 billion dollar budget funds. The corporations at the other end of those contracts don't like declining state school enrolments either.
I once worked for an outfit that included some unions, including a teacher's union. The teacher's union wasn't even popular with the other unions---they thought themselves superior to other labour. They were hard to work with, too. Nonetheless, they can be useful allies, and it is worth building a working relationship with them, once you have enough power to make it worth their while. In other places, they have proved themselves capable of working with homeschoolers against e.g. compulsory testing. Their interests and homeschooler interests are not highly aligned, but they're not diametrically opposite, either. I sure wouldn't be happy if I were a teacher and I knew that Ms. Kosky had a big workforce projection contract with a high-power American consultancy of the sort that learned industrial relations by advising its big corporate clients how to downsize a decade or two ago---kind of like the sort of doctor who advises where to place the spikes in an Iron Maiden.

Steve Madden : And when do you expect to add a child to your car-dog-TFN collection?

I have home educated my children for almost 30 years, so home education has been around for a while. During this time the movement has grown all over the world.
To bring in laws to regulate home education is acting out of fear and ignorance.
I think the government should take a different approach and ask families to register, to then provide them with assistance and support. They would be wise if they also spent a little researching home education so they can support it rather than destroy a viable alternative that works.

Seeter and Realist
I have a 26 year old son that has never attended a school but owns and operates his own successful company employing 15 unskilled people that have come out of our state school system. That's why I home educated my children.

Seether, your point about home birth is "interesting".

How many women who want to home birth would be happy about the government passing undisclosed legislation that makes it a legal reqirement for them to register with an a board, who have undisclosed powers.

Would they be happy to have to follow the governments standards on birthing and to have to prove that the methods they are intending to use are acceptable to the government.They would then have to apply to the government board so that these government payed employee's can decide if they like your methods and if they don't- off to hospital you go- against your wishes and forcefully if necessary.

I think the home birth association would be up in arms about their right to choice being taken away.

This is what home educators are feeling.

Australia is supposed to be a democarcy with Australians having freedom of choice.

I cannot believe that everybody is so caught up in thier personnel view points, that they cannot see that this issue is about government changing legislation to allow them to take away our freedom of choice.

Realist - What a nasty attitude-

Our job as parents is to protect and provide a safe enviroment for our children. If we do not then social services take them away to a safe place.

Drugs, rape and murder are also a part of life - Lets see your child " face it,conquer it,and deal with it - they need to experience it and its a part of growing up ".

NO its not! It's a part of a very distrubed Adult world that is inflicked on our children if we allow it. Lets stop standards dropping any further. This nasty attitude is not apart of Australian life, though it seems to be coming more the norm, because we are allowing it to happen. Stand up for your children and if you don't have any - stand up for someone else's.

The government released a white paper on 15th September see http://www.home-ed.vic.edu.au/About/proposedchanges.htm

What a load of rubbish that this is now being labelled as sneaky attempt to hide the document over christmas.

Previous update: 30 September 2005
Lyn, Sally and Sue met with the Project Director, Michael Kane and the Legislative Review Executive Officer, Rebecca McTernan on Friday 30 th September. We were told that the proposed new Education Act will acknowledge home education as a legitimate choice for parents along with the choice of government, religious and independent schools. Apparently the reason for the rewrite is that historically the Act was aimed at the running of government schools and that this really needs to be updated to acknowledge the range of choices now available and the parents’ right to choose the type of education they wish for their children. The intent of the legislation is to provide for a diversity of educational options rather than create a prescriptive ‘right way’ to educate children. Whilst plans for the home education aspect of the legislation are in the very early stages the intent is for a minimal level of regulation and they welcome input from home educators on what would be appropriate in this regard.

What a dishonest act, when the Homeschoolers were briefing the Govt in September. And the author of this beat up was at that meeting. Dont let the facts get in the way of a good story.

I'm with those who believe we should see what's coming before we subscribe to it. Why should we submit to rules when we don't know what the rules will be?

Steve, An interesting fact.

Under the current education act in Victoria home education is a legitamate choice for Victorian parents as is religious and independant schooling.The diversity of educational options you speak about are already available. As it stands at present religious and independant schools recieve funding and grants from the government. Home educators do not.

Does the new proposed legislation address this discrination and make the neccessary changes to the budget to include home educators?.

If the governmentis so welcoming to input from home educators, How come there have been no announcements in the papers and on t.v. news about the proposed changes to the education act?

Why have we not seen the current affairs programs running stories on this issue opening it up to public knowledge and debate?

If the government is so open about this issue and so sure its changes will benifit Victorian parents and thier children, why have we not been informed offically about the proposed changes. Why is the government keeping the majority of Australians in the dark?

This is the only place this issue seems to be mentioned.

Steve,
I was at that meeting with the Department and yes that’s what we were told at the time but if you are going to quote from our webpage – don’t take things out of context.

We went to find out what we could about their plans. We left thinking, “Well, it all depends on the wording of the actual Act. No reassurances count until then.

The wording came with the exposure draft on 15th December and we have spent our holidays reading a 446 pp document. How can a sufficient level of feedback from the public occur on an Education Act over the long summer break?

Home educators are reasonable people. We are not totally opposed to registration, simply to the fact that the Act, if passed in its present form, means that registration will be tied to compliance with any regulations decreed in the future, no matter how unreasonable.

We would not object to a clause in the Act requiring us to register, provide efficient and regular instruction and be required to prove it. We are quite prepared to prove we are educating our children, just not to be subjected to the possibility of intrusive and unreasonable regulations.

And on your previous point about opportunity for the government to receive feedback on the Draft law – yes that’s great. We are giving them feedback but we object to the timing. I would rather be on holiday thanks and lots of education people are and therefore have not had the opportunity to provide feedback. People trying to contact their MPs about this issue have found that their offices have been closed for much of the exposure time and have you tried to get an appointment with your local MP lately? If you live in a Labor electorate expect the run around.

Susan: you raise some very important questions.

If this draft legislation is intended to “provide for a diversity of educational options rather than create a prescriptive ‘right way’ to educate children”, why is the Statutory Authority being given such unlimited power to recommend any level of regulation for home education?

The proposed composition of the Statutory Authority is also indicative of the Government’s mindset. Why is there no requirement that this Statutory Authority will have members from the homeschooling community, or educators who are knowledgeable about the goals and processes of the many different forms of home education?

The Government is never open, honest and transparent about what they are doing and exactly how it is going to affect individual parents and children. They dont have to consider the individual so they can ignore individual homeschoolers and even students .

There might be something good to come out of compulsury registration etc. Homeschoolers would then become a respected and accepted recogised educational group and maybe they might have more say and power and be able to bring out to the open the reasons why mass schooling is failing and the reasons why so many children are having to be taken out of school for protection. It could work to help change the system and bring awareness to some serious problems that are affecting our youth.

I think homeschoolers can relax about what will be expected of them as for sure it will have to be kept in line with what schools provide. The expected standards in Education are so low that the majority students can pretty much do nothing and still pass national benchmarks.

Steve
The white paper to which you refer gave away very little about what actually ended up in the exposure draft. So how has anyone in any educational community had enough time to disseminate and absorb the new legislation? Due to the timing of the release, many are actually unaware of the content of the Bill.

Whilst your political proclivities are blatantly obvious, perhaps you could see beyond your prejudice and realise that home education is a viable successful educational option.

The Government’s new legislation will only harm the movement. They have written this exposure draft with very little knowledge of home education, the fact they keep referring to it as ‘homeschool’ proves this. Like you, they are reacting out of fear and ignorance, and need to learn more before passing judgement.

Homer schoolers almost as bad as god bothers uh wait that's right they are god bothers. The number of post we get from this small but loud group is a good demo of their motives and it's not for the good of their children. No matter what they believe, just have a look at a few of their websites will show any sane person. The rewriting of history to "justify" their beliefs in home schooling is scary. Yep their are up there with flat earther, creationist, ufo's and other new agers.

For the home schoolers who scathed me:

I believe you realy care for your kids, i am not going to write a few thousand words so you understand my reasonings, but from the most neutral angle, i still cannot comprehend how it is the best option. Yes it may produce winners as evidenced in the forum, but so do the worst schools in the country.

Studies show home schoolers have higher marks, socially interact better due to being with a spectrum of people each day etc etc i refute. Show me the evidence? Dont be blinded and rob your child of a childhood. They are not little adults.

Also, for those who are saying Home Schooling has been around for ages etc, you kow my point was it is becomming the vogue now and combined with easier avenues to recieve information and access to curriculums etc. It is a worrying trend, and i am sure this 'trend' has what has been the driving force of new legislation. Common sense, not railroading others should prevail here.

What annoys me, is that home schoolers out there think they know better than those who have committed their life to educating. I am sorry, but how many of you home schoolers out there have the facilities of a school? Have the liaison with employers and universities like schools do? Can provide a spectrum of ideals and career paths for their children, rather than just the beliefs of the parents? How many provide sporting facilities and new innovations in technology to the children?

Kids are not extensions of yourselves, they are individual entities. let them develop, integrate and understand society for themselves, not just be in a bubble.

And the comment regarding bullying saying 'rape, murder etc is part of life also'this just shows your overprotectiveness. Love sometimes gets in the way, it realy does. Self development comes from experiences, dont rob them of it.

To Realist and others who may not comprehend why homeschooling may be regarded as the best option by some. No doubting that it is never a decision that is taken lightly, my husband and I made a choice to take the most active role in our children’s welfare and education, before they were born, to take time to listen to our children first hand. We choose not to rely on crèches, school reports or parent teacher interviews, or keep them in a bubble (classroom) with the other 20+ children of the same age. We made a choice to utilize the whole community and resources at our disposal. Our children have the freedom to follow their individual interests and not be an extension of ourselves or a curriculum laid down to facilitate mass education. They can be children for as long as they like, keep company with who they choose and participate in the real world as it unfolds for them. There is no comparison between those who have committed their life to educating the masses and those who have committed their life to encouraging life long learning for their children. Minority that we are, there is a very diverse range of families who choose homeschooling. You are right in saying “we do really care for our kids”, what I am saying is I want to retain the right to choose the education most suited to my child.

How many homeschoolers posting on this thread are committed Christians?

To Kenny and Realist:

The fact that neither of you can comprehend home education makes no difference. The fact that the earth looks flat does not make it so.

We, who have indeed committed our lives to education, really do know what we are talking about, because we see the evidence daily. If you could meet and chat with the children and young people we know who have not been to school, you would find them friendly, knowledgeable, well-balanced, thoughtful, conscientious, and not only employable, but actively sought out by employers because of their outstanding initiative and ability to take reponsibility and solve problems.

What a pity you are able to speak only from assumption, and not from experience!

Discussion on this review have been going on since it was first publicly announced on 10th Feb 2005. That is almost a year of time for discussion, hardly sneaking it out at Christmas.
The title of the webpage I referred to is : Proposed Changes to Education Act –September 2005. Hardly taking something out of context.
You state “We are not totally opposed to registration, simply to the fact that the Act, if passed in its present form, means that registration will be tied to compliance with any regulations decreed in the future, no matter how unreasonable.”
But all of us are in the same situation; most laws have regulations that can be changed at the whim of a minister. That is how our government’s govern, and that is why we have elections, we can kick them out.
I am glad you are on holidays for the “long summer break” most people I know went back to work after the New Year weekend. Really is a 446 page document that hard to digest? Or is it just a little more difficult to rally your lobbying forces?
Chris1
“political proclivities are blatantly obvious”? I did not think I was at all political, but for a movement not to get its views across to Government in almost 12 months shows how ineffective you are.
I have always acknowledged that home education is a viable option for some parents, I even agree that you should get funding to help you educate your kids, but sorry I believe you should be registered and monitored if you are doing such a wonderful job what is the problem?
Have you ever heard of a case of home education that was not good for the child? I have. Would you like me to tell you about the failures that registration may prevent? Probably not.
What is your “real” agenda you have no issue with the Education Minister. Maybe we should stop governments from regulating anything – anarchy I think it is called

Realist -
All home educators have access to sporting facilities. or do you think schools are the only place children can play sport??

All home educators have access to employers ( for work experience i assume you mean)

All home educators have access to uni's - Monash Uni runs a science program specifically for home educators, Perth Academy of science runs a mathmatics and science program for home schoolers ( available online.As do many other uni's.)

Tafe colleges run courses that are part time that high school home ed students can access whilst doing their final subjects.

All written material that schools access can be obtained at any educational supplies store ( or do you think schools print the only available material)

Career path's can be accessed at any Job Centre.
Do you believe that schools are the only ones that can show you your career path? If this is the case why do most young people not discover their career path till long after they have left the school system?T

The internet and all "new innovations" are available to all Australians (or do you think that only schools know about new innovations).

If you believe kids are individuals why do you think that a system that makes them all conform regardless, is such a good one?

Some books for you to read and inform yourself of the facts. This is just the beginning -

1. Uni of western Sydney-Prof Singh25.11.05 "Welcome to the classroom of tommorow"
2. Tizara,Hughes,Pinkerton&Carmicheal 1982" Journal of child Psycology & Psychiatry
3. Calvary,Bell,& Vaupel 1992"The difference between home school and public school.
4. Delahooke 1986 "Home educated children's social and emotional adjustments.
5. Meighan 1996 Homebased education Not why it works-but why it works so well(Research info for teachers by Australian Council for education Research)

When you get through these much much more is available.Most of it can be accessed on that "New Innovation" The Internet

Realist - A list of some of the Uni's that Home Educated students have graduated from.

Victoria - Avondale College, Ballarat Uni, Bendigo Uni, Boxhill TAFE, Bible College of Victoria, Burwood Teachers College, Casey TAFE, Deakin Uni, Dookie College of Agricultre & Horticultre, Frankston TAFE, Gippsland Institute of Advanced Education, Glenford Hunter TAFE, Goulbourne Ovens TAFE, Holesglen TAFE, Latrobe Uni, Loddon Compaspe TAFE, Macquarie Uni, Monash Uni, Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology, R.M.I.T. Uni, Sunraysia TAFE, Swinburn Institute of Technology, Tabor College, University of Melbourne, Vicotian University of Technology, Wodonga TAFE, Yallorn TAFE, Bunbury TAFE,Eduth Cowan Uni, Midland TAFE, Murdoch TAFE, Murdoch Uni, Northam TAFE, Perth Metrololitan TAFE, Thornlie TAFE, Western Australian School of Nursing, Mt Lawley Tafe, Curtin Uni of Technology

N.S.W-
Canberra TAFE, Uni of Canberra, Albury TAFE, Austrakian College of Christian Education, Avondale College, Bankstown TAFE, Bedford Business College, Bourke Technical College, Cambelltown Business College, Charles Sturt Uni, Cumberland College of Health Sciences, Granville Tech College, Coffs Harbour Tafe, Hawkesbury Agricultral College, Lismore TAFE, Liverpool Tech College, Macquarie Fields Tech College, Murrimbidge College of Agriculture, N.S.W conservatorium of Music, Uni of Western Sydney,Uni of Sydney,

All other states and international uni's to follow shortly

They're a vicious bunch, aren't they Realist. Had me surprised!
We dont need to reiterate what was said in the previous forum on this topic. Home schooling is a happening thang & should be supported at many a government level. I do think there should be some accountability on the part of the parent, some form of monitoring on the part of the Ed authorities. I do not think it is a mistake for the gov to ask why kids aren't at school. There are simply too many 'not' at school, for the wrong reasons now.
Two factors - A law is only a law if it is enforceable.
- I agree with a previous post in that the author of the Journal seems to be reading a little too much, at this stage, into the situation regarding Home ed & the Victorian Govt. If the legislation is as described, it borders on the ridiculous & will be unworkable. This will become obvious.

My position on this topic is simple, & it should be the position of every Aussie wishing to see the best possible education for our kids.
Home ed is here now, necessary & probably here to stay - support it.
Public ed is here now, necessary & probably here to stay - support it.
This is not a topic that requires argument.
Vastly improved management of the Education system across Australia is definitely necessary. This is where the debate should lie.

Ok Steve, once more I will explain what home educators are objecting to, as again you appear to have missed the point.

Home educators are not so much concerned about registration. What we object to is the fact we are expected to agree to registration under undisclosed regulations.

This is a simple concept to grasp Steve. No one in any democratic society should be forced to comply with undisclosed rules.

Whilst home educators agree that the state has a responsibility to ensure all children are educated, home educators do not wish to give up their right to determine the manner of their children’s education.

The Government has proposed this legislation despite the fact it has done no studies to see how it will impact on home education within this State. The proposed legislation is unnecessary, especially as the existing legislation is more than adequate in this area.

Steve you appear to have something of an agenda here. From the vehemence of your comments, it could be postulated that you are aligned with the ALP in someway. You are certainly highly defensive about any perceived criticism of the State Government.

Realist, your earlier post said "The government should decide, not the mother, not the child", Your next post contained "Kids are not extensions of yourselves, they are individual entities". The posts imply that the government and the children should decide about their education and the parents should butt out!! There are some children who simply do better under home schooling then they could ever do at school (e.g. those with learning difficulties who cannot keep up in a normal classroom, yet are not sufficiently impaired for specialist classes). There are a lot worse things that parents decide for children other then home schooling. My experience of children who have been home schooled has been that as a whole they grow into well adjusted adults. There is plenty of interaction with others - the parents ensure it occurs. Sure some children are disadvantaged, but that occurs in mainstream schooling as well. Like Skilkie said the concern should be with lifting education as a whole rather then how/where it occurs.

Further update to Uni's and TAFE Colleges that Home educated students have graduated from.

S.A
Flinders Uni, Glengale Hunter TAFE, Mitchell C.A.E, Muirden Business College, Muirden Matriculation College, Onkaparinga TAFE, Port Lincon TAFE, South Australian C.A.E, Regency TAFE, Royal Adelaide School of Nursing, Spencer TAFE, Uni of South Australia, Uni of Adelaide,

TAS

Alanvale TAFE, Burnie Tech College, Devonport Tech College, Don College, Drysdale TAFE, Elizabeth College,Hobart TAFE, Launceston College, Launceston TAFE, Tasmanian State Institute of Technology, Uni of Tasmania,

W.A

Burnbury College, Edith Cowan Uni, Midland TAFE, Northan TAFE, Perth Metropolitian TAFE, Thornlie TAFE, Western Australian School of Nursing,Mt Lawley TAFE

N.T.
Northern Territory Uni

INTERNATIONAL

CANADA- Trinity Western Uni

Hong Kong -Youth with a Mission Training School

NEW ZEALAND - Ashten Warner Nanny Academy, Auckland Uni, Central Institute of Technology, Christchurch Polytechnic, Christchurch Teachers College, Massey Uni, Masters Institute, Nelson Polytech, Otago Uni,Taradale School of Nursing, Waikato Uni, Wanganui Polytech,

USA.

A.C.E International Institute, Bob Jones Uni,Chattanoga State Uni, Christian Heritage College, Grand Valley Uni, Liberty Uni, Oral Roberts Uni, Northwest Nazerene College, Tennessee Temple Uni.

These are just the one's I know about, if you know of others add them to the list. Home educated students have access to all Uni's, Colleges, TAFE'S, Apprenticeships and On the Job Training as do all students where ever they schooled. Employees, Uni's,Tafe's and Colleges are interested not only in scores, but in the maturity of the student and if they will cope with the preesure of Futher Education. Home educated students have good results in all these areas.

As you can see home educated students are all over the world and going to a diverse range of colleges and uni's, hardly a carbon copy of their parents, Rather a huge range of individuals choosing a huge range of career's.

Home Education is not for all, just like private education is not for all, neither is religious education for all , but the choice is their for parents and students to make together

The main issue here seems to have been missed by some.

The issue is that the government is proposing changes to the Education Act without fully disclosing what these changes are to be until after they have passed the legisaltion through parliment.

Regardless of whether it is Education legislation, IR legislation, Road & Infrastructure legislation or any other legislation, the government needs to declare its intentions before - not after the changes have been made.

Australians are not fools, we have only the governments past endeavors to go by and so far their track record is undeniable bad.

How many Australians would vote for a party that declares " we will only tell you what we are doing after we have done it" NOT MANY.

The government does not have an open licience to do what ever it wants. The government is only made up of individual people.These polititians were voted in by the people to work for the people.

The people pay taxes , these taxes pay for politicians wages, superannuation, expense accounts and for all improvements to the Australian economy. Without the peoples' money and vote this country is nothing. Stop allowing them a free rein and make them accountable for what they do.

This is our country- most polititians are only in government for 4 years, we have to live with the mess they create for a lot longer.

Chris1.

I have not missed the point. I repeat that we are governed by regulation. Almost all laws allow for regulations to be imposed by a minister, that’s the way things are and always will be.

We do not live in a Democracy I am sorry to say, we live in a Constitutional Monarchy with the separation of powers into legislative branch, executive branch, and judicial branch.

The executive branch “governs” by regulation!! And we are all forced to comply with undisclosed rules every day of our lives.

We have no “rights” in Australia, except in the ACT where they have enacted a “Bill of Rights” which are probably unenforceable. You do not have the “right” to “determine the manner of your children’s education”. You are able to do this because the executive branch of Government allows you to.

I repeat this review of legislation has been going on since February of last year, and it was announced that the review would take 12 months. Maybe your lobby missed the press releases and did nothing until September, hardly the minister’s fault.

My agenda is not political; it is to stop lobby groups distorting the truth. I am not supporting the Victorian Government I am showing the failings of the home education lobby and their distortion of the truth.

Its good to see so many first time posters on this thread, a bit late but the grapevine must be working.

Steve, after reading all you posts, I feel I must point out that; whilst ‘1984’ was a great novel, I am sure Orwell did not intend for us to adopt it as a lifestyle guide.

For someone with no agenda or political leanings, you appear to be going to an inordinate amount of effort to defend the exposure draft, and the party who released it

Personally I am not sure how this is relevant but my friends would have me committed if I became Christian.

If the bureaucracy in Victoria is anything like in NSW I am not surprised that homeschoolers are worried about the Government putting policies in place that control the parent and make certain things and processes compulsory regardless of how intrusive and stupid they are.

I recently applied for an allowance that my children qualified for as they have been granted Distance Education for special needs (Psychological and medical grounds) and they are enrolled in the Distance Education School . The Centerlink site is here, it is called the Assistance for Isolated children http://www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/individuals/st_payments.htm

I sent the forms to the Distance Education Office and within a couple of days I received a statement saying that my children did not qualify because they did not live far enough away from a school. At the same time they sent me a form to fill in to apply under the Distance Education on Psychological and medical grounds.

The process involved to fill in the forms they provided means having to go back to the Psychologist and having him fill in a medical report. I wrote back to Centerlink and informed them that my children had already been assessed for Distance Education on psychological and medical grounds and they had been successful so therefore they qualified for this allowance and that I did not think that it was fair or right for them to demand that I have to take my children back to the psychologist for this and pay for the psychologist to do another report, when the children are already on Distance Education!

It already took the Department of Education 5 months to process my children’s Distance Education forms as it had to undergo special consideration and scrutiny, whilst my children sat and waited. So many bureaucrats have read my families business and have had internal access to my families life. NOW Centerlink wants me to also send them our life so that they can also see and judge.

I said not on your life, my family is sick of the abuse of our privacy.

HI Di I think you've got lost, you are definately in the wrong place

Steve,
Yes, the discussion paper was released last February asking for input. But there was no mention of home education in the discussion paper. Yes the white paper was released in September but its only reference to home education was one sentence. Not much to go on. The exposure draft is the only concrete evidence we have had of what is planned. Sure home educators expressed concerns before and sought further info but were told to wait for the draft.

On the point of the ‘long summer break’ (which you dismissed by saying you had to return to work on News Year’s Day, why shouldn’t we?) The point is that even if people happened to notice the release of an exposure draft of the Education Act in the midst of Christmas preparations, many go on holidays at this time of year and politicians are uncontactable for much of the exposure period – their offices close. It seems a funny time to release the exposure draft on an Education Act – during the school holidays. Many school parents will return from holidays to find the exposure period over. Education is an important issue to the whole community. Surely a proper public review period is warranted to allow all parents (not just home educating ones) to think about the implications and contact their parliamentarians if necessary.

An accident of timing you think? I don't

Steve, there was no prior warning before the white paper, that home education was under consideration to be included in the rewrite of the Education Act.

It is difficult to comprehend how you can dismiss the lack of exposure for the exposure draft of the Bill so easily. Education is of great importance to all. To release the exposure draft during the school holidays, shows a high level of contempt for the opinions of the electorate by the Bracks’ Government.

You seem to think that it is acceptable for the Government to insist upon adherence to unwritten rules. It is very poor legislative practice to insist on compliance with undisclosed regulations. It is an abrogation of parliamentary responsibility and bad government to confer power on a Statutory Authority which is not properly circumscribed.

Realist,
I completely agree with your posts, though I feel sorry for those like Maxiumus, who seem to regard school as some type of communist plot against society from the anals of Carl Marx. As Realist stated bullying is a part of life, if you do not learn to cope with it in a school situation, you will not be prepared for life in general, as I found out, the hard way.

Students at risk of being on the wrong end of bullying can learn self confidence as I did, from a course of self defence at any PCYC.
the loss of social interaction with their piers can be devastating when they reach adulthood, while I appreciate the love that drives parents to home school their children, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Not a scholar myself, this is only my opinion derived from 50 years of life, but I would ask anyone who intends home schooling their children to weight both pro's and con's before adopting this action, of course everyone's situation is different, and I recognise that, however for the sake of the child's life [whole life] please think long and hard. Children are our future.

TonyC,

I have never defended the draft or the party that released it. What I am trying to do is help the Home Education Lobby, come on girls lets get to the nitty gritty.

Your actions are counter productive and are playing into the hands of the predictable “we consulted widely” media release from the ministers office. Or have you given up the fight already and now see the minister as an enemy. Remember it is the Departments Bill not the ministers so it will not matter who is elected it will eventually become policy.

What regulations do you want? Tell the minister, you may only have until Monday for this exposure draft but it needs to go to the final bill and be debated in parliament. It then will not be implemented for another year. Get in the ear of your MP’s

So you probably have about six months to put together a coherent logical argument to the new authority about what YOU want. All I have heard is sycophantic rants about rights and freedom and democracy.

Put some guidelines together, basic home education principles that you can get the new authority to agree to and get an in principle agreement that regulations for home education will follow your stated principles.

You cannot fight your fight by accusing ministers of being sneaky, you need to be sneakier that her. Plan your future agenda and stick to it.

You have won the fight for home education to be a legitimate education choice, now move on to stating what you want. Or is this the problem, you don’t know what you want or the only thing you want is to be left alone.

I understand that the fact that you choose to home educate probably means you are very independent thinkers and that finding agreement between a “broad church” may be difficult. But that is your next challenge.

Welcome to the real world where the only way to win your fight is to work with the system not abuse its spokeswoman.

Shonga,
School is not the only place where socialisation can happen.
Studies show that home educated children are very well socialised, often better than their schooled peers. Many home educators socialise in large groups several times a week. Additionally most home educated children are actively involved in their local communities. Many do sport, art, dancing, drama etc. They mix with a large variety of people every day. Home education provides for rich and varied socialisation.

Shonga, there is much information regarding home education, it may be an idea for you to research the topic further so you have a better understanding. Home education is a legitimate educational option which millions of people around the world choose. It is not a case of a ‘few’ disgruntled parents thumbing their noses at the education system. In the United States there are over a million home educators. Home education has become mainstream there, and acknowledged as a bona fide educational choice.

School does not hold the exclusive rights to education or socialisation.

Sterotypes do not help us and are inaccurate. Home Educators are not 'hippies' as a general rule, nor are the majority of us unusually 'religious'. We have a broad spectrum of home educators: conservatives and hippies, religious and athiest, political and a-political, highly educated and high school educated. Isn't this what we see in the broader community?

The home ed group I have been involved in had an 85% rate of non religious members with a broad range of ideas and belief systems which are embraced for their diversity. We accept each other for who we are, as we understand our common ground and the need for variety to stimulate learning. Some groups have higher components of different groups, but the fact is still the same, some areas have higher concentrations of certain 'stereotypes' too. Consider the population of Footscray. Let's stop trying to brand people and realise that in our own way we are all doing what we think best for our families, whether they are in school or home educated.

Up until now, the education department has been avoiding giving us enough information to allow our voice to be heard. Quite frankly, had we gone to the media early in the year at the first 'whiff' of education changes that may or may not include us, we would have been branded as 'hysterical conspiracy theorists'. So we asked instead and they told us that it is yet to be written and when the draft is released we would have a chance to respond. Now that we finally have been given a little of the information we have been seeking all along, we are left with an unworkable timeframe at a convenient period for the department to prevent any public debate. To be continued...

Yes, we need to mount a defence. Yes, we need to get out there and make ourselves heard. We are doing our best but are finding ministerial doors shut till February and are getting bland responses with no content from the Minister of education. She keeps reciting that the legislation is all about 'consistency' but refusing to give any details or to even consider drafting a concept prior to the legislation being passed sometime this year. It really seems that we are getting stonewalled and quite frankly, we need the particulars to mount an effective fight.

I am not against registration and I am happy to carry the burden of proof, should the department choose to investigate out of fears for the educational welfare of my children. However, I am against being forced to register and submit to undisclosed regulations.

Let's take the circumstance of the anti sedition laws in Australia. The government was forced to submit to a review process and to give details of the proposed regulation prior to it being accepted (after some amendments). Our MP's forced this because they felt it could constitute a severe breach of personal liberty and allow unreasonable governmental control. Much as the timeframe was forced and the general public had little opportunity for a fair response, at least the MP's protected us as best they could. We have not even been able to get to our MP’s to ask for help.

How is this issue any different? It makes one feel that the government is perhaps a little two faced where liberties are concerned if it will only affect the minority and not their voting majority.

Nicola,
Your point is taken, however 2 points if I may;

1. Large gatherings a few times per week sound a bit like reproducing a school atmosphere, I may have the wrong slant?
2. Because a million Yanks do it doesn't make it a good option, look at their society in general, I think I would home school if I had the misfortune to live there also.

Again please don't get me wrong I am not trying to degrade the practise, only understand the motivation for doing so. Home schooling is certainly preferable in my eyes to some of the lunatic religious schools such as A.O.G. schools [Assembly of God - Calvary Christian Colleges]. I met a lady today who lived on a remote farm and did her education by school of the air, and she socialises well, my socialisation concerns allayed.