As a recent addittion to the disability pension, I concurr with this article. 2005 was a horror year for low income families, as well as those of us who struggle to live on pensions.

Your ABS cost analyist of rising cost explains that for our class of the population we have been pushed further and further behind, and your belief that the CPI should be extended to cover more than 64% of the population could surely not be argued against by any reasonable, rational person.

Now that Workchoices [no choice] legislation has been introduced the number set to join our ranks could be enormous. It seems while India and China continue to prosper, Australians of our class continue to slide into a third world situation to balance the prosperity of those nations.

By international standards Australia is seen as a wealthy country, how can that be if ABS figures show 1.7 Million families from a population of 20 million people are struggling to put or keep a roof over their head paying between 30-60% of their imcome on this and other essentials.

Perhaps the time has arrived to either increase wages, or provide more Government services to this sector, Health, Education and Roads would be a good start for a Government who is sitting on a tax take $11.5 Billion more than the services they provide.

Shonga.
I totally agree with all you say. As another on the Disability Pension I find it increasingly difficult to make the money go round.

I do not live an expensive lifestyle, but $8-9 a kilo for mince, $7-8 a kilo for cheese, $15 a kilo for cheap steak, $8 for a bag of spuds. I know that prices of the things I buy are going up faster that the CPI.

Why is the CPI only measured in capital cities? Surely transport costs are the biggest factor in regional Australia.

Ah well another instance of our Govt. fudging statistics to let us know that the economy is doing well. Like being employed if you do 1 hours work per week.

Its sausages for dinner again at a mere $4.80 a kilo. I have dozens of ways to cook them.

The sad, uncomfortable truth is that Australia is living well beyond its means, and that there has to be a considerable cut in the average standard of living. This will be beyond the ability of Government to correct. I was amazed by the cries in Sydney when petrol reached $1.45 a few months ago, when some said "the government must do something about this!". When oil gets to $200 a barrel, which could happen this year, and petrol goes to $2.50 a litre, people are just going to have to cut down travelling. This will accentuate the gap between rich and poor, as the internationally competitive part of the economy will see their income maintained, or they will leave.

Yes, Julie, the great divide between the haves and the have nots is certainly an issue of concern. Welfare recipients and now the working poor are becoming very real issues within our social conscience. Working to achieve a lifestyle, for many people, is becoming little more than working to survive. Those requiring assistance are more prevalent, and the social consequences are becoming obvious. I have no problem with those that achieve wealth consistent with the effort and risk that they take. To tear them down does little to elevate those that genuinely struggle, so what is the answer? It would take a mind far greater than mine to find a solution however it is a remedy that will not be dispensed by any one person or government.
Perhaps people need to have a close look at the way they consume and want. The demand for products grows and accordingly the prices follow. It doesn’t take Einstein long to work out that the ones that can’t keep up fall behind while the inertia of the markets spirals ever upward, exacerbating the problem. Every evening the financial reports issue forecasts or results of market growth. Growth must come at a cost, mustn’t it? Ultimately, perpetual growth, like motion, must be unsustainable.
I am no analyst so much of this is just thinking out loud. I welcome any criticism.

Plerdsus

You are right and wrong. Some parts of Australia are living well beyond their means. The buy now pay later ads we see on TV are just the tip of the iceberg. There has to be a cut in some standards of living but people on pensions are sure not average.

The Howard Govt. directly caused new house prices to increase by $30,000 by imposing GST and the first home buyers grant. This has increased the cost of buying a home by $60 per week. This increase has flowed through to all house prices. As house prices increased people used this increased equity to either buy a “rental” property or to buy consumer goods.

On the Sunshine Coast where I live, the hospitality industry is having difficulty finding staff because they cannot afford to rent in the area and there is little public transport.

To say we are going to have to cut down traveling misses the main problem with high fuel costs. Due to the destruction of our rail freight infrastructure all goods travel by road, courier companies like TNT and Toll have already imposed fuel levy’s on their invoices, so have airlines. So business and eventually consumers pay these additional charges.

Business is already leaving Australia; the latest is the Kraft biscuit factory relocating to China. Or call centers in India. Have you tried to buy clothes or shoes not made in China?

As a “poor” person I don’t travel much anyway, I own a VY Commodore which I paid for from my superannuation (Early payout due to disability), I also own my house so I do not have a mortgage and I am better off than many. But I still only have $80 per week after paying all my bills to live on.

It is obscene that some spend more than this on a bottle of wine. We have many examples from history where revolutions have occurred due to similar problems. This is happening now and our government should realise it. But of course income redistribution is an anathema to our rulers

Perhaps “poor” needs to be defined. Poor is often subjective. Steve Madden, you could not be considered poor – yet you classify yourself as such. In your case it appears you are poor only relative to someone who is better off. True poverty is an absence of money, chattels and any means of subsistence.

There are also those who consider themselves below the bread line, yet live beyond their means. For example their pension would cover food, shelter and clothing however luxuries are added to the list such as cigarettes, alcohol, the internet, a computer, etc. Perhaps some of these are now considered essentials and as such more people see themselves as poor.

Julie, I agree people in the lower income brackets and those on the true poverty line have been disadvantaged by increases in food, rentals and fares without similar rises in income. I also acknowledge there are those who truly struggle – they do not own a car, they have no luxuries such as a computer, the internet, or even a telephone connection. They purchase clothes at the local op shop and after rent, food, medication, fares, bills etc, have nothing left. However, how many people can truly claim to be in this latter category? Is it only these people who line up for hampers at Christmas? Unfortunately it is not. Many who line up could have managed their money however lack the discipline or the skills required to do so. I am not suggesting it is easy to manage on a low income – I am well aware that it is not. I have seen people juggle and struggle, but still manage. But many (not all) who fail to make ends meet do so at their own hand; and will continue to do so regardless of increases in current pension or unemployment benefits.

It also needs to be considered that part of the increase in assistance that has been witnessed by St Vincent de Paul and other societies could well be attributed to the “spend now, worry later” trend currently seen in all levels of society

Part One

Yes indeed "poor" does really need to be defined - but really, in whose definition and from where do we start?

As a returning expatriate of some 30 years absence, I classify myself as poor here in Australia, yet should I return to where I have lived and worked, I would be placed well into the upper middle class, as well as having a servant or two to "ease the burden" (so to speak?)

I am now a single parent, and I am now finding it a bit hard compared to my previous lifestyle of an expatriate, quite more than half my income goes on rent, power and essential communications - which really are a "MUST", but I know that there are so many more here in Australia so far worse off than I am - I really try and help where I can, but as anyone else relying on the largesse of the government purse can attest, I can only assist with my own labour, sweat and knowledge ..... many times I am also in dire need.

But when I look back some 20 odd years, when I was earning obscene amounts of remuneration, my best friends were those living in so called squalor - in grass huts with thatched roofs - were running water was a leaking roof, the communal toilet some 20-30 yards away, lighting was either a "tilley" lamp or the glow of a campfire - not so far removed from my own childhood really, except we had a decent roof - the dunney was outside and the "night soil" collected once a week, a hot bath was shared with the rest of the family... but I do believe we were far happier then than now.

BUT – there will come a time, as was noted “luxuries” (sic) like cigarettes and alcohol will be well off the menu, but then again as I neither smoke nor drink I will not miss them – but I know many will for they are a crutch against boredom and despair.

Part two

Life however, has always been a struggle, life as Malcolm said was not meant to be fair – never was and never will be, but having said that life is not going to get any better under any of these so called trade agreements – the Yanks will screw our arses to the floor and one only has to look at the acquiescence of our own grovelling politicians to see that they are not only selling their souls – but also our children into penury far worse than what we now are facing – and we only have ourselves to blame!

As a great herd, we have listened to the lies, the blatant untruths and like lemmings, we have elected these wastrels, these lying illegitimates, who squander our vast riches away all the while wallowing in the life of luxury, it matters not whether they be Liberal – or Labor – they all lie and we have seen our once prosperous nation, one of two who led the world (the other was Argentina) slowly bend to the will of other and now race to the bottom of the scrapheap of humanity.

Some have resigned in disgrace, some have suffered depression and some have tried (not too hard of course) to commit suicide, but in the end, those of us who are forced to eat cake, because we can no longer afford bread will indeed rise up and bring back the guillotine for those who despise the poor, those who create the terrorists, those who flaunt their disdain of those who are not as avaricious.

Yes indeed, what exactly is poverty? Is it the only lack of material possessions – or has someone pointed out – do we really know what being poor really is? How many people have no water – no shelter …. Not had food for several days – and no funds to purchase them?

That is poverty!

Kekendika, what I got from your article is that you were a globe trotting, very well paid expat who squandered all your money and came back to Australia to enjoy taxpayer largesse and to pontificate to the lesser life forms about poverty. Did you formulate your thesis on poverty using the time you spared having servants? Before I continue on could you explain how you receive a government handout that allows you to cover your rent et. al., and still have upwards of half of it left?

Then you have the hide to announce that “As a great herd, we have listened to the lies, the blatant untruths and like lemmings, we have elected these wastrels, these lying illegitimates, who squander our vast riches away all the while wallowing in the life of luxury…” Who, no doubt, go on to suck at the teat of government…feel familiar?

If you are, as you say, in a position of needing welfare now, then you will get what you are entitled to but the taxpayer does not have to like it. Poverty is indeed a subjective word and you have taken it to levels of decadence and waste that I never thought possible.

Perhaps now you will take a look around your own country and you will see that poor means never having had anything and riches come in the form of basic clean water…without the servants.

I read with great interest this article and the accompanying comments.

However, I would like to take up the issue of absolute and relative poverty. I noticed an assumption in some of the posts that absolute poverty is the only real poverty, but that is not so, as relative poverty tends to lead to social exclusion and in some circumstances 'ghettoisation'.

Once certain goods and services are taken for granted in a community, those unable to afford them are in a WORSE position than they had been previously. For example, I remember during the early 1950s most people did not have a private telephone but there were public phone boxes within walking distance of most homes. When the majority obtained private phones, the public phone boxes started to disappear with the consequence that those poorer people still without phones were worse off. A similar thing happened with the spread of the private car: public transport deteriorated, local shops disappeared or were never even built in new areas, and the previously 'taken-for-granted' system of home delivery vanished. I remember as a teenager during the 1950s happily and safely travelling on public transport to and from the Saturday night dances. It was perfectly safe to do so because very few young people had cars and there was safety in numbers.

I am not trying to glorify the 1950s, only show how the poor can be severely disadvanted in ways that are often not readily apparent.

Kephren

I think many people do not understand the difference between absolute and relative poverty.

Some friends of mine complained last year that they were struggling - they couldn't afford New York for their annual holidays and had to settle for the Gold Coast.

Wish I had their financial problems.

Not that I am making light of poverty - we have both absolute and relative poverty right here in Australia. From the variety experienced by some indigenous people to many of us who never participate in social events because the money required just to attend is needed for food or essential services. Very demoralising on the outside looking in.

The trickle down effect if it ever existed seems to have dried up. Could be due to the 'bottleneck' created by the packages given to executive staff and not passed on to workers. I am sure someone will post that CEOs are worth every single million. They probably believe that Gordon Gecko was right as well.

Shonga don't take this personally, for I don't know you, its more a point I am trying to make. But you seem like an intelligent person, you clearly have computer skills etc. You say that the Govt does not provide enough for people to live on. But Governments don't provide anything, its other hard working taxpayers who do.

Considering your intelligence and your computer skills, is there no way that you can make a contribution to providing for your own well being, rather then relying on other tax payers to do it for you?

Yabby seems to assume that those on pensions such as disability pensions by definition make no contribution to their own well being and therefore are totally reliant on taxpayer-funded handouts. A moment's thought on the subject would show that this ain't necessarily so, though it often is, depending on individual circumstances. If a person can make no contribution to their own welfare, is Yabby's inference that there should be no social security? Let's be clear about this, Yabby. Do you support a social security system and if not, what is your suggested alternative? And by the way, you also say that 'governments do not provide anything, other hard working taxpayers do.' Apart from the condescending attitude displayed here, when was the last time a taxpayer contributed taxes directly to a social security recipient? Last time I looked, it was government agencies that distributed pensions and provided services.

Scout, I perceive a different perspective. There is absolute poverty and relative envy. They are different propositions. One goes without, the other goes with less than whomever it is they compare themselves to. Perhaps it is a moot point but not without merit.

Julie, thanks for your article. The issue of the level of poverty in Australia is an absolutely critical one.

Up until now, all kinds of previously unthinkable degrees of misgovernment have been ultimately forgiven, three times so far - in 1998, 2001 and 2004, largely because this Federal Government has played again and again and again, as its trump card, the claim that our living standards have increased since it has come to office, and this claim, until now, at least, has never been seriously challenged.

The latest incarnation of this argument was the statistic, endlessly repeated during last years controversy over the introduction of the Industrial Legislation 'reform' legislation, that everyone's wages have 16% on average since this Government first won office in 1996.

Even though the social welfare lobby tries to make much of the fact that the wages of the poorest have not increased by as much as the wages of the wealthy, experience has surely shown that this argument has not carried much weight with public opinion. If this Govenment's policies have truly made everyone wealthier even if not by the same degree for everyone, then the corollory is that if the Government's policies had not been implemented everyone would be substantially worse off.

I think this single factor may go along way towards explaining why this Government is now, again, ahead, 52% to 48%, on the two party preferred basis, in the opinion polls according to today's Newspoll (see http://tinyurl.com/bbvly), up from 47.2% to 52.8% on 27 December.

Your article goes some way towards giving a more accurate picture of poverty in Australia, but I think it could have gone further. You make some valid criticisms of the CPI, but the true picture is far worse. As just one of many examples, CPI figures have NOT even included the massive increases in the costs of housing for some time now.

I have run out of space here, but I have gone into this in more detail in another forum in response to a piece of nonsense written by Peter Saunders of the CIS. (see http://tinyurl.com/9w4ka).

If I were a Master Of The Universe, how would I go about setting things up?

I'd arrange matters so that my wealth increased at an ever increasing rate (stock options, bonuses, golden handshakes, etc), and then keep myself silent and keep news of my affairs out of the public’s view, so that the Good Folk Of The Land invariably filled the silence with their verbalised wonderings about why they feel poorer, even though the official stats and indices (that my empire publishes) prove that they are better off than many others around the globe, and better off than their parents were. On a good day, I am even treated to the deluxe spectacle of seeing the Good Folk savaging each other as they seek out culprits to blame for their perceived plight.

I'd generally laugh all the way to my tax haven, whilst leaving the Good Folk to wonder at how to divide up the scraps I left them, as if they could enrich their lot by finding some smarter way to carve up their (ever shrinking) portion of the pie. Meanwhile, I am free to corner for myself the wealth that they generate in my name, sometimes pitying them for not realising that they live in a world of plenty, if only they were smart enough to claim it or wrest it from my clutches.

The way to keep an elephant bound to a small plastic stake in the ground is by learned helplessness (http://www.noogenesis.com/malama/discouragement/helplessness.html).

"Do you support a social security system and if not, what is your suggested alternative?"

PK, sounds to me that you have jumped to your own conclusions, which have little to do with what I wrote. In answer to your above question, I support a system that helps those who cannot help themselves, I don't support a system that helps those who don't happen to feel like helping themselves. Big difference.

In answer to the second part of your question, no its not about being condescending. Its about empathising with those who work hard, get out of bed, go to work and pay their taxes. The many battlers.
You are correct, they don't directly pay those who don't feel like
doing the same, that does not mean that their hard worked for $ are not given to those who don't feel like getting out of bed in the morning.

Yabby,

Haven't you heard about mutual obligation? The system where people pretend to look for work and the Govt. pretends to pay them. I think newstart allowance is about $200 per week. The only way to exist on that in metro Australia is to stay in bed.

Do you really believe the unemployment stats? 1 hours work = employed.

It is easy to blame the victims and espouse the dole bludger myth.

The cost of living for the poor has risen disproportionately to that of the rich is an undeniable fact.

Well Craig Blanch,

The thought of being a globe trotting well paid expatriate runs vividly through my mind as well – I wish that it were the truth now, however as a mere volunteer, the remuneration was not all that grand on Australian scales anyway. The mere fact that I did actually employ, was just that, to employ and distribute some funds where they were needed, without taking the high moral ground of having come from a country that was riding high – and very well paid? – but of course, compared to the people I was working with, who actually got nothing.

Now that I have come back after squandering my massive (sic) salaries, I feel that I have earned the right to pontificate a bit, after all as the saying goes, I have been there and done that, I have done my best, and with my limited funds tried to help my fellow man.

How very perceptive of you to actually twist what I said – “quite more than half my income goes on rent, power and essential communications” to “still have upwards of half of it left?” ….. Ah the absolute brashness of ignorance, for that is what you are, an ignorant autocrat, a soulless milker of the government teat for your own benefit! Tell me my good fellow, what exactly, or any one thing in particular, have you done to alleviate the sufferings of others?

Criticism is something I always take on board, but you offer nothing but destructive criticism, which places you in the land of the mental midgets, with only your strident mouth setting you apart from the rest, but you do make yourself a target, so may I offer this rehashed phrase of advice – “It is better to shut up and be thought a fool, than to speak out and confirm it”

Where do you fit into the scheme of life? Do you have anything to contribute – or are you just another self flagellating hollow drum, full of noise, but bereft of ideas, actions and compassion for your fellow man.

Kekenidika, you wrote "Criticism is something I always take on board, but you offer nothing but destructive criticism which places you in the land of the mental midgets". Sadly in replying to Craig you have now placed yourself in the same land....what a shame....

Kekendrika, a very spirited defense by someone who in one post was very well paid while, when it serves, in the next post was paid very little as a volunteer.
What I do or do not do for my fellow man is not a topic that I believe is appropriate for the public domain. It would serve to relinquish any good I may have done in the name of empathy and reduce it to a self promoting tool. If there are those that have benefited by my existence then they already know and care, just as I have benefited from the existence of others.
If you wish to post an article that serves to promote yourself then don't be surprised at comments that may be critical of self elevation in the guise of empathetic comment.

Coraliz: – my abject apologies and I should have known better to rise to the bait. However having said what I said, I retract nothing.

Graig: - It is easy to pick and twist out of context to suit any purpose, the same as statistics, statistics and damned lies. The obscene amount of money I was paid was just that, compared to the people I was living amongst, who had nothing, it was. But then again it is impossible judge unless you lived there, not just taken a holiday there for a few weeks with all your perceived comforts.

It is easy for people to twist well out of context and I most certainly am not looking for empathy, especially those who deliberately choose to misspell my name, but then again, that is the tool of a self serving political mindset.

Note of course that my questions were not answered, but in yet another obtuse attack on what is perceived to be one of self promotion, answers my questions with mere pretentious rhetoric dashed off with little or no thought.

To quote St. Jerome - “Dum excusare credis, accusas” - I myself stand aside, taking no credit for whatever good (or bad).

Yes, Scout, I agree with what you have said. There seems to be a tendency on the part of many people to use the word 'poverty' to mean either relative or absolute poverty, whichever suits their argument at the time, which of course causes only confusion.

Your friends who complained of 'struggling' because they could not afford to go to New York for holidays are beyond the pale. What an abuse of the word 'struggling'! They remind me of the French aristocrats on the eve of the French Revolution - Marie Antoinette's famous (or infamous) saying shows either how out of touch she was with the ordinary person or a very insensitive joke.

Yabby,
Thank you for your kind words, as you will read on other threads I now am afflicted with the following, which makes reliability, and concerntration major factors in my employment prospects, along with my age, I am 50, and have the following, Chronic Major Depression, Generalised Anxiety Disorder, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and lastly Insommnia.

I would absolutely love to make a contribution to this great country again, however my last employment experience of 21 years of intimidation, emotional blackmail [I had a mortage] and assualt, has led me to my current medical position re WA Premier Gallop. Unfortunately in my case I cannot afford private treatment, and rely on the under-funded State Government system, which has had its funding slashed by nearly $1 billion by Mr. Costello in 2004 for 5 years hence. The coal face is that the states systems have shortages in staff in my case in Mental Health, so recovery looks like an eternity away. I cannot function like a normal human being, and at the moment have no prospect of doing so, due to lack of treatment for my illness. With 20% of Australians affected wouldn't you think the Federal Government would increase not decrease funding to the States for health, if only to make more people available for work, I would.

I fully realise who actually pays for my pension, as I have paid for nearly 40 years myself, however I have also paid for corporate welfare, building of bridges, dams and railway lines, of which I am very proud. I didn't realise until recently what pensioners were screaming about, why old ladies have to do without hot water systems, as they can't replace them when they fail. It is a schocking experience I can assure you, I recieve approx $180 p.w. I don't know the exact sum as my wife has had to take over the financial running of our home, it is not a pretty story.

Coraliz,
You claim we have to evaluate "poor" well how about we use "Australian Standards" as we do for many other things. Australian Standards, could be not enough money to feed a family of 4-5 properly, not enought money to put petrol in the car to go to job interviews, not enough money to pay electricity/gas bills,not enough money to go to the doctor when children are sick etc. Like Steve Madden, some of the luckier "poor" people have worked for decades so we at least have some infastructure, which saves us money, personally I do not smoke or drink, so that is not an issue for me.

We actually live in Australia, so comparing our poverty to international poverty is a useless exercise, many of us have paid our dues [taxes] un-discounted for decades, as an insurance premium in case of emergency, which is now upon us individually, and in my case because of ill-treatment by an employeer.

Shonga.

You once again are correct. I lived on a "worm and a glass of water" 25 years ago to save a deposit for my first house. I now own my own home, I worked bloody hard to pay extra and reduce the mortgage.

But I once again am lucky my home is not yet considered an asset, people living on over 2 hectares (I think) have their home considered an asset even if they live in a dust bowl. "Sorry your disabled and cannot work but your land should produce income so bugger off or sell it"

I am lucky to have a broadband connection paid for by my family.

I am lucky because I can exist on what I get, $80 does not go far.
I have terminal cancer that is why I do not work, not because I have chosen to, not because I cannot get out of bed, (although some days it is difficult).

Why has this thread degenerated into discussion about relative levels of poverty?

Tuna (canned $1.89), spiral pasta (69c), White sauce (flour 5c, butter 10c, milk 20c, cheese $1.00) $4.38 for ingredients add 62 cents for power make it a round $5 meal. Thats $35 a week, leaves $45 for petrol ,clothes, prescriptions (only $4.60 but it adds up)etc.

Yes I do count every cent, I have to. I agree I am lucky, but I also feel for those who's lives are worse because of our mean and sneaky Govt.

Kekenidika, The misspelling of your name was not in any way deliberate, politically motivated or otherwise however upon reflection, I must admit, that the previous postings were overly harsh and critical. Your resentment was understandable.
I wish I could mount an argument in my own defence but, unfortunately, that is not the case in any real sense.
Apologies for any affront that I may have caused.

Actually Shonga I said that perhaps poor needs to be defined and that it is subjective. I did not claim it required evaluation, but your point is taken. However, if it is defined in terms of Australian standards as you are suggesting then it is a subjective definition as I proposed. At the same time there are also different classes of poor within Australia (no need to compare elsewhere, therefore as others have also posted it may be relative or absolute.

Shonga I'm sorry to hear about your health problems. I have less faith then you in the experts, when it comes to mental health. Neuroscience has been a bit of a hobby of mine for a while and I think that there are answers, but alot of them we can figure out for ourselves.

I once followed a US website, where people were trying to deal with anxiety, depression etc. They had swallowed every drug, suffered from all sorts of side effects from those drugs, but those making by far the best progress, were those who took a daily magnesium supplement. Our modern diets lack magnesium. I also know from animal nutrition, that increasing magnesium calms livestock. Next thing, half of us are coffee addicts. Its part of our modern lifestyle, particularly in the US. I've done some experiments. Cut coffee to max of 1-2 cups a day, add a magnesium supplement to the diet and its amazing what those things can do for brain chemistry, once you get past the caffeine addiction withdrawel symptoms.

To be honest, I would hate to be federal treasurer. I once saw the amount of people receiving various welfare payments and it was more then there were taxpayers. A huge % of the Federal budget goes on welfare. Who do we tax more, who do we help? I really don't know, as there are so many areas of need. Tax the rich more and they will simply go elsewhere. The poor are already paying plenty of tax.

The only answer I can see is that 50 somethings generally are doing pretty well, from massive increases in real estate values. Rather then leave it to the kids, they might as well use that value to enjoy their lives more and rely less on Govt.

When_The_Going_Gets_Weird

Great post!

Shonga

"I am 50, and have the following, Chronic Major Depression, Generalised Anxiety Disorder, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and lastly Insommnia."

I suffered similarly to you and have improved enormously since switching to a strict hypoglycemic diet. Magnesium and caffeine (as mentioned by Yabby) are part of it but there's a lot more. Check out this website.

http://www.hypoglycemia.asn.au

Bronwyn, Shonga

I think I will 'out' myself as well.

Have suffered from depression since my teens - attempted suicide 5 times during my life - the last time would've succeeded but my neighbour decided the car engine in my garage had been running a long time.....

Anyway, have also developed chronic fatigue - if I pace myself carefully I can avoid being bedridden.

As a result I am not interested in permanent work - live frugally and work as temp - this way if I am ill I can take time off.

As a result, I have not had any real increase in income for years - am still trying to pay mortgage, while there is rental assisance for low income apparently trying for independence by purchasing a home doesn't entail government support. Have exhausted mortgage relief programs and will have to pay back $12,000 in 2 years. (Hoping for tattslotto win).

Paying bills - always by installments - really annoys me that insurance companies penalise for that. If you can't pay lump sum annual fee - higher costs involved for direct debit - difference of $100 or more over year. Even though I am paying by direct debit - insurance companies in win-win me in lose-lose.

These are just a couple of ways low income people are treated inequably.

Yes there is an increasing divide between rich and poor - don't have problem with fair day's pay for fair day's work - but have to question worth of CEO's - what one earns in a year I could live on with extreme comfort for the rest of my life.

PS - Bronwyn thanks for the link to hypoglycemic site - will check it out.

Well that's my 2 cents.

Cheers

Yabby, Bronwyn, Scout and Wtggw,

Yabby, thanks for the tip re Magnesium, I take a small quanity now, but will increase to see if it works for me, after 8 years of this I'll try anything, and I appreciate your advice, and it may explain some of my aggesion, and learned helpnessness learned from 21 years of workplace treatment.

Bronwyn, thank you for the hypo-diet I have made it a favourite and will study it closely to see if I can change anything I am doing that conflicts with it, again I appreciate your advice, and suddenly feel surrounded by friendship and compassion, a feeling I am not used to but very much welcome, thank you!

Scout, I can empathise with your situation, as I mentioned in an earlier post Steve Madden and I are lucky in one way that we got in and paid our mortages before our respective conditions presented themselves, I can't imagine how you live on a pension, manage to pay your rates and mortage repayments, I have bought the book "101 ways to cook mince and sausages" but still don't eat properly because we don't have the money to always buy the food needed for a healthy lifestyle. You have REAL courage.

WHGGW, Learned helpnessness I have never before heard the term, but can relate to it as a mirror image. My last employer over time, took my self confidence, self astime, any self worth I started with, by publicly humiliating me, picking me up by the ear off the ground, with the knowledge that if I hit back, I could be sacked and lose my home, and everything I had worked for, so I did against my will, learn to feel helpless.

I read a post from I think Scout which read something like, if I clash with you on other subjects I do it with love not anger, I would like all to know I am very much the same, but any attack I make, is purely to defend my opinion, and should not be taken personally, Love to All here, Regards, Shaun

Thanks Shonga for your kind words, however it wasn't me who posted >>if I clash with you on other subjects I do it with love not anger<<. Actually that sounds more like the inimitable BD.

I am not on a pension - when in between temp jobs I claim unemployment benefits sometimes, also my savings are eroding rather than being spent on maintaining my home.

I have chosen to do temp work because of the new IR laws which now make a mockery of 'permanent' work. At least this way I have some autonomy and if I don't like a particular workplace I don't have to go back there. I have established a good relationship with my agency - despite fatigue probs I am competant and can still learn quickly. Also in my favour I don't look anywhere near my age and look professional. In fact, noone looking at me would realise what I have been through - all the scars are on the inside.

I was a really spoilt child and can honestly say that if I hadn't experienced the hardship through my life I would probably be a female version of Col Rouge. I used to believe all that rhetoric he comes out with. Can honestly say that I am a better person because of my experience.

So 'looking at life from both sides now' can definitely concur that the gap between rich and poor is widening and that it will take positive action rather than waiting for that lame and myth-like "trickle-down effect".

Well for some statistics off the RBA website ( http://www.rba.gov.au ), indicate that the CPI has gone up over 41% since 1990. Another way to look at this is that a $1 will now only buy the same as what 70 cents bought you in 1990. If you use another statistic, the M3 which tracks the growth in the money supply, it has grown from around $200 billion dollars in 1990 to about $650 billion late last year. This is a 225% increase over that time.

Basic ecomonics says that increased supply lowers prices (ie the value of money decreases - things cost more). It also reduces the incentive to save money, which causes people to get into cashflow problems and loading up their credit cards. For those people a budgeting program like simply budgets ( http://www.simplybudgets.com ) would help them greatly.

Inflation also causes destortions in the economy. For example, people who have money could have invested in real estate earlier this decade and seen their networth increase. Meanwhile people who couldn't afford to buy real estate couldn't receive the gains on thier money and became poorer relatively and if they were renting the increase in house prices would have likely to have lead to a rent increase.

Also here is a link http://www.gillespieresearch.com/cgi-bin/bgn/ to a site that talks about US government manipulations of the statistics. I am sure that the Australian government are not much different in their deceptions of the public.

To all above who suggested that having and using a computer means one is not struggling - My computer is 5 years old and was purchased with the residue after selling my home and paying huge credit card debt which accrued because the water and council rates, car rego and upkeep went onto it because OF COURSE, living on a disability pension does not (should not) cover those luxuries.
To all those above who seem to think than anybody receiving benefits has done so all their life: get a grip! I worked and was taxed for 30 years before I succumbed to this.
To those above who have 'outed' themselves as ill, and with the depression which accompanies chronic pain which leads to chronic fatigue: the internet is such a wonderful outlet and I think it may have helped many avoid offing themselves.
Coraliz: some people cannot afford to rent a videotape, have any kind of holiday at all, and as well as people living on benefits, please consider the working poor who struggle to pay $40 at the quack for a sick child.
SHOGUN above: bless you and wishing you well.

Brownie, Our computer was purchased when I was working, 8 years ago, so those flogging the dead horse can give it a rest, such a narrow vision of the world they have, assuming everyone just goes on a diability pension, I wish they had to go through the process at Centrelink themselves to see hoe EASY it is on be given the disability pension.

As for me, I had no intention of having dealings with Centrelink, as I paid an Insurance policy for accident and illness coverage, which covered me for the first 3 years of this disability, until they found a loophole to legally stop paying me, forcing me to Centrelink. So people expressing opposing views should pull their heads in until they know what they are talking about, because in most incediences they wouldn't have a clue.....

The topic of this forum is that the poor are getting poorer - and optimists know there can be good things in bad ones and here's the good thing:
when the inevitable Depression hits, those like us will manage better than the Coras above, because we already know how to live on nothing.

Sorry I got your name wrong above, shogun shaun.

I absolutely hate the fact that, even with strong economic growth, we are seeing an increasing gap between the rich and the poor. But of course, who doesn’t. So what do you think is going to happen when the first critical resource problem hits us and economic growth falters?

This resource will be oil and the problem won’t be supply at least not in the first instance, it will be price. Plerdsus writes (17/1); “This will accentuate the gap between the rich and the poor. Of course it will, big time.

This is THE issue that we should be concerned about, not only in relation to the poor becoming poorer, but as I have said many times now on OLO, in relation to the very fabric of our society. But amongst the 37 posts on this thread, Plerdsus was the only one to mention it. Even Steve Madden in direct response, missed it entirely (but still a good posting).

The effect of oil prices rising to the point of causing massive disruption looms ominously close…. and yet, even amongst all the good thinkers on this forum, there seems to be stuff-all concern.

I have posted many comments about peak oil on OLO. I have received a few comments in support and absolutely none in any way opposed. Yet it remains out of most peoples’ consideration when they are discussing things that are directly related to it and let’s face it, just about everything to do with Australian sociology and politics (the entire scope of OLO) is strongly related to it. It does not compute.

Brownie, wouldn’t it be nice if the poor had an advantage when peak oil strikes, “because we already know how to live on nothing”. But tis very wishful thinking I fear.

Ludwig, I have read your many posts that outline concerns regarding oil prices. The points you raise are of great concern and I have supported (in my mind) all of those concerns. I am sorry it appears they are being ignored and unsupported within the forum. However I know myself that I simply have not have any worthwhile contribution to make on the subject over and above what you have so aptly said. Nor does my brain expand to being able to offer any resolutions. You are correct that having experience at being poor won't help when the crunch comes. I know only too well what poverty is, having grown up in what would be termed in Australian standards absolute poverty. Never mind about not hiring a videotape Brownie - how about not even having electricity connected!. However, I would never suggest for one minute that it will give me any advantage in the event of an essential supply shortage.

Ludwig,

Thanks for noticing my post on oil prices, which I consider to be the most important item for us all this decade.

Before embarking on any more doom and gloom, I think we should appreciate the four vital things that Australia has, and which no other country has, and which will help to shield the ordinary people here from much of the trauma to come:

1. We have a surplus of food.

2. We have a surplus of energy.

3. We have a surplus of minerals.

4. Most important of all, we have a sea boundary.

The downside is that it is obvious that the next major terrorist target will be the middle eastern oilfields. If they can render them unuseable, they will bring the western world to its knees. I am sure this is recognised by the countries in the middle east, as well as the major powers, and we can only hope that they can defeat any terrorist attack.

Whether is comes slowly, or suddenly as the result of some attack, our adjustment to the new world of very expensive energy will be traumatic, as it will be without precedent. I believe that the only rational response, (much derided at present) is to live a simply as possible, so that habits learned now will come in good stead when they become essential for survival.

Cheers Coraliz and Plerdsus.

We do have some real advantages as Plerdsus states, but they won’t prevent a very large upheaval and reorientation of our whole society when liquid fossil fuels become too expensive for the average person or transport companies, or when the follow-on effects of price-hikes and/or lack of availability of food and basic commodities start to bite.

We are so absolutely dependent on liquid fossil fuels for the maintenance of our whole way of life. We really do have very little room to move with supply, distribution and price. I cannot see how we could avoid large-scale inflation, unemployment and blowouts of inequalities and civil strife in the fairly short-term future if prices continue to rise as they have for the last year or so.

These four advantages are really only going to come into play after we have come to terms with the new post-cheap-liquid-fossil-fuel reality.

We should also be aware that in a highly stressed world, having a lot of resources may not necessarily be an advantage; it might be a real cause for concern regarding our much larger and more powerful resource-hungry northern neighbours.

At any rate, as it concerns the subject of this thread, continuously rising fuels prices are very likely to cause a massive chasm to open up between the rich and poor