Graham, Everyone knows that JC was an Anglo, blonde haired, blued eyed fella and so were his disciples. Look at this picture of him for proof. http://www.webspinners.futura.net/zumaltsp/Jesus2.jpg

And if he was at the Cronulla riots he would have been in there throwing fists and supporting real Aussies against those trouble making unaustralian Lebonese immigrants and other bloody ethnics.

If he really gave a stuff about Indigenous people he'd have done something by now.

Yes, Jesus upheld social justice in ministering to the poor and sharply criticising the Pharisees and Sadducees for their hypocrisy in administering the law. But we must never forget that his primary purpose was not for social justice. If it were then he could have prepared his followers for battle and overthrown the leaders of Jerusalem and been crowned king. But when his authority was questioned by Pilate, he responded, "My kingdom is not of this world." (John 18:36). Jesus' purpose was not to be crowned king of Israel in this world. It was instead to be crowned king in the world to come and to open the door of kingdom for all people, even those despised hypocrites of the ruling classes if they were to repent of their hypocrisy and follow him. Such despised rulers might be likened to political figures of our own generation despised for their corrupt deeds. But they are in need of salvation too, just as the poor begger suffering the injustice of a greedy society is in need of salvation.

It is easy for us to read into Jesus the kind of ideal political figure we wish for our own times and overlook the far more important message of repentance and salvation for all who should turn to him. Remember that if the gospels are truly to be believed and Jesus truly is who he claimed to be then he could easily have ended all injustice at his first coming.

Dear Ranier... maybe he is waiting for someone like you to humble himself at the foot of the cross, asking forgiveness for being flippant about a man dying, and to renew you, empower you, and transform you in mind, emotion and will, to be the first among many, who, being close to the indigenous situation, would be the best equipped culturally to translate the saving Gospel of Life to those you have contact with. (and yes.. I'm sure I myself have many planks in my own eye.. pray for me on this)

Blaming Jesus for not doing anything, when clearly God has shown He works for mankind 'through' men and women, is a bit unfair and cheap shottish.

When Christ was faced with the Romans and religious leaders about to arrest him, he said "Don't u know I could call on legions of Angels to help me" but he did'nt, because He came to die for your sin and mine. Yes Ranier.. 'your' sin AND mine... not just mine.

So, I urge you in His name... to humble yourself, turn to Him, and become one of His children.

"I stand at the door knocking. If any man hear my voice, and opens that door, I will come in, and dine with him, and he with me" Rev 3.20

Ranier... please open that door.

BD,

My religious beliefs go back a little more than 2000 or so years-
and so Christian colonialism is only a recent phenomenon here but it has much to answer for here and across the pacific.Not that I'm fixated on this but you have have asked me to prostrate myself unto your God / Jesus/or whatever you choose to call him.

I would never ask this of you.

The story of JC is nonetheless a good story about a man who set out to fight injustice.

Every people on earth has found its way to God, to some kind of God, to some answer to the universe that is above and outside themselves.

No, it is not the idea of God that sets us apart in the history of humanity, it is the kind of God in which we choose to believe that in the end makes all the difference. Sadly, your appears to be a very bossy,dogmatic and scripture bound.

I think the one Graham Ring speaks to and about in much more universal and ordinary fella who would be welcome in my country anytime. A long-grass fella for sure.

Dear Ranier...
colonial associations with Christianity are one thing.....
they are but a manifestation of how people understood and applied their faith in a particular context.. with all the variations that humans tend to bring to such a thing.

None of this changes the historical truth of He who said "I am the way".. and that applies to every man woman and child on earth irrespective of race, culture or creed. I did not ask you to prostrate yourself before 'my' anything. I proclaimed the living Christ to you. It has nought to do with 'me', but everything to do with Him.

The people of many indigenous cultures are now sending missionaries to 'white' mans world.. but we don't say its 'black mans' religion.
Its Gods self revelation, no matter what color of skin on the messenger.

Your religious background indeed goes back a long way,.. I suggest it goes back to our common ancestor in one of the survivors of the flood. (Have a very cafeful read of Genesis 10, the Table of Nations), Your own mythology (from your own tribal background) may not specifically have such a myth but it does exist in some aboriginal cultures. There are enough of them in the world which have the same characteristics, which include that God caused it, and gave a warning, and that it was for humanities sin, to conclude that it is a blurred but universal allusion to a real event.

Ranier.. you need to forget anything about 'white mans' religion, and focus on the fact that it is 'semitic' in cultural, and divine in spiritual background.

You are right, the Jesus of history was strong on social justice, but there have been many of that nature, all died and became dust. Christ came not to 'fix society' he came to fix people like you and I. Heaven knows we need fixing. New people make new societies.
Blessings

GR's quote:
"cannot live by word alone" - too true. Would journalism as we know it today, survive if weren't for gracious benefactors - sub editors : who featherbed, coax and generally nursemaid these prodigies until they can earn a decent living ?

The sign of the times. History repeating itself - or a swipe at the higher echlelons of education ?

Your christian upbringing rings a familar chime - except being rebellious by nature and ' free thinking ' by temperament, the exasperated Nun's lost little time in recommending to my distraught parents - I should seek my fame and fortune, preferably on another Planet. As distant and far removed from All Hallow's as the space shuttle station Mir.

Your observations about the great man JC intrigues me - perhaps mostly ' tongue-in-cheek ' or just another cheap shot at christianity from a dissident couch-potato who lost your way because the Church wasn't handing out accolades for kin-folks who only attend baptismals and/or funeral eulogies once in every lunar eclipse - rarer still ? Kidding.

Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code certainly got the heckles up at the Vatican for sure. The hierarchy spent many an uneasy night pouring over page after page for heretical nuances, blasphemy and sacrilegious ' zeitgeist ' theories that might subvert the hoi polloi or worst ! I know for a fact that the Jesuit Society of Jesus, founded by zealot St Ignatius Loyala, were deeply offended by the novel and apart from relegating it's contents to the inferno, instantly sought ' bans ' throughout the intelligencer to prohibit further sectarian discussion. The book written in 42 languages and selling at a phenomenal rate - last count 8.5 million, has caught the imagination of young and old. Feeding the public's insatiable frenzy for punishment and self immolation, are actually producing a film version featuring enigmatic Tom Hanks. An epic, I'm tipping. One would think the public would deem a storyline of the Holy Grail mythology - of symbols and cryptography, would be as entertaining as Harry Potter ?

continued...

If the Inquisistion was alive today, DB would be uber-candidate for a stretch on the rack and pinion. Do you think he would give an ecclesiastical fig ? maybe not.

Funny enough, the reaction in the Catholic weekly Sunday new's journals brought a profusion of die-hard defender's-of-the faith: preachers, nuns, and a mixed-bag of wouldbe saints who not only condemned the book wholesale but urged parishioners to boycott Dymock's sales, and curb insidious subversive dogma encroaching on sacred ground. They regaled his heretical theories about liasons with Mary Magellan, etc..etc motwithstanding it only came about 2000 + years ago !

Apart from the time stretch, there have been many earth-quaking upheavals in the Church since. One is tempted to enquire where they sourced their ' proof ' of rebuttal from ? My guess, they trotted out the same timeless gobbledgook mantra they swallowed in large doses to ' brainwash ' kids yesterday and today with. Trouble is, there have been a plethora of encyclical truisms that have been discarded by the diocese, hitherto chiselled in stone. Mass confessions, contraception, celebration of mass sans priest, divorde, bigamy, jazz music and pantomine played at some mass's. Communion and mass's served by laity. No meat Friday's. The list is endless.

Dwindling church attendances, severe shortages in the Priesthood, falling revenue and mass desertions by the faithful have taken a massive toll and distraction within the Synod. There have been countless soul-searching enquires, think-tanks, and counsels to address this Universal pandemic - sadly, the trend continues at an alarming rate, both here and abroad. Watering down some of the 'not too unpleasant ' pieces of Church dogma - to make it more acceptable and appealing to the younger generation has, in my view been an unmitigated catastrophe.

To persist along these ' wishy-washy ' lines of reasoning, beckons redicule, farce, profanity, immorality and ultimately TOTAL irrelevance.

Cheers

I agree with Crusader here, though social justice is important in Christianity, one cannot loose focus on the figure of Jesus himself. It is the "culture" of our society, as people say now adays - I would prefer the spirit of our society - rather than the division of wealth that marks us out as a Christian society rather than any other society.

There have been many attempts to engage the Aboriginal people of our nation with Christianity, especially through things such as rainbow serpent theology, which could be seen as Australia's version of St Patrick's shamrock. It must be remembered how very un-Christian Aboriginal society was before European arrival - a violent, vindictive, and some might claim very mysogynistic society - yet that those whisperings of Truth that are evident in all societies were there. Western societies profess to follow those whispers, but often don't hear them over themselves.

Aboriginal culture will and has benefitted by an amalgamation of the current sort of Christianity with traditional beliefs. It shall be through a taking up of the challenge of Christianity in all peoples in our society, rather than ideas of radical "bolshie" redistribution which will make us a better place. One must remember, the rich can still reach heaven - it's difficult, but many saints, such as the very rich Nicolas would show it. In a nation where the rich give 47 cents of every dollar they earn, far above the traditional 10 cent tithe, to the rest of society, much of which is redistributed down to the more needy, it's difficult to claim that we are an uncaring society.

The poor will always be with us, said our "long grasser" friend, and so they are. Let's keep our minds on task, rather than trying to denigrate our efforts with comparisons to the Romans.

Dalma, I'm disapointed. You didn't mention Mel Gibson once.

No, no. no Rainer – I’m the blonde-haired blue eyed one. Jesus was not only a long-grasser but a rat-faced, weedy, lefty, darkie Jew with a bad hair cut to boot. In this day and age he would most likely be condemned by the Christians He (the blonde-haired one) supposedly inspires. Jesus is too politically correct for this age. Christ he’d cop it today.
Boaz, I’ve been declared a left/greenie, does that mean I have to be baptised. Actually, I can imagine it. Boaz baptising Rancitas with the-The as witness. Scene one (in my brain). My mate: “Ohy. Ohy. I says f*cken ohy big fella.- don’t ya’ tink yud ba holdin Ranc’s noggin unda da holy stuff dar a we bit taa long. F*cken ten minutes f*ckin’ be a long a little while dar dunnit ya’ tink? For Christ sakes dun’t be killen ‘em he be direct decent to Hydra ya' know. One c*nt like Ranc ba’ enough - dun ya' ba' sayin' so. Dunnit ya’ ba tinken dat dar Boaz?” (Spar)

RANCITAS...and I thought Intense Phonetics on orientation course in Singapore 1977 was bad :) I just about had a coronary acclusion desiphering and pronouncing your new language there.....

I suspect both you and DALMA are projecting some preconceived idea of Christianity onto me...

DALMA.. re the Rack and Pinion, did you mean I would be OPERATING it or EXPERIENCING it ? I think you meant I'd be the operator while I'm inquisiting Rancitas and you....
Nah.. not my thing. I prefer something more like OLO :) both of you have a false understanding of Biblical Christianity. I suggest you both read say Mark's gospel or Luke and then Acts. and while ur at it, some of Paul would be good.

Try to avoid confusing Post Constantine 'official' Christianity and the Catholic beurocratic Behemoth with the life of a Christian and the style of 'church' in the New Testament.

Rancitas.. to be baptized, you would need to confess Christ as your Lord and Savior from your heart... and in His name, you would symbolically 'die' and 'rise' as u go down, and come up out of the water. I hope and pray that one day I will witness that joyful event.
Same for Dalma and all who as yet do not know Christ.

DALMA 'relevance' ? Not sure how you mean.. we are not out to be 'relevant' in any other way than as called to be light and salt.

If you think falling church numbers mean anything, perhaps you should research the Great Evangelical Awakening and note social religious conditions prior to that. http://www.newcreation.org.au/books/pdf/072_GreatAwakening.pdf

Elijah once said "Lord, I alone am left"
to which God replied "No, I have 7000 who have not bowed the knee to Baal"

Boaz: You just used the Bible to back up your prejudices. Doing a little projecting of your own there old-fella. (reflection)

I think Jesus came for the Oppressed,

He came for the poor

He came for the sick

He came for the Unrighteous

He came for the sinners etc..

(anyone in the above categories can receive Jesus, as He is for them.)

RAncitas...

actually.. I probably do at times :) I'm not aware of it though, because I seek to avoid inserting my prejudices 'onto' the text. In fact.. if you can show me where my views (when specifically commenting 'as' a Christian) are in error with regard to the Biblical position, I guarantee I will relfect seriously on them.

I looked back on the previous 2 posts. The last one was mainly an apologetic/defense of the one before that, and checking it, I cannot see how I am using the Bible to backup 'my' prejudices.. could you help me out here ?

I do see some statements which seem to be in harmony with the position advanced IN the Scriptures, but not one which is 'imposed' on them.

Anyway.. the Jesus of the Gospels is indeed a revolutionary figure, 'ooh.. that dude eats with tax collectors and sinners'....
he came to set the captive free, give sight to the blind, life to the dead, healing to the cripple.. and to challenge the human traditions of Sabbath observance and many other accumulated human traditions... I'm sure if he were here in person today, He would do the very same thing towards many of our major denominations ! Example "I told you that the first would be last.. that he would be great among you must be servant of all, so why are you Bishops living in mansions" ?

and so it goes on.

Nothing would give me more pleasure and joy than to be compared unfavorably with the life and words of our Lord... because that brings glory to Him. It would underline my own defficiency and highlight His perfection, and Jesus said "I, if I be lifted up, will draw all men to myself" meaning the cross, but drawing.. is one thing, His hearers coming is another... perhaps you might like to consider your own position re this 'long grass man' ? I do every day, and I come up short. But by His amazing grace to this sinner, I find forgiveness and renewal. Halelujah !

Oh Boy, Luck Christians are not like Muslims, otherwise series of backlash will directly against Australia and its people, while Australian Embassays mayest destroyed in many Christian countries with 911 type attack, malicious Bin Laden like boomb attack or Cronulla like riots INCLUDING embassy in America!!

I don't know so much about jesus but... see:
at least interesting... do you are knowing about model Jesus Copyright? he's an american/brazilian fashion model and has some videos posted on Youtube commenting astronautic, astronomy etc!! I saw any pictures from him taked for San Paul Fashion Week on Brazil and this guy is really a revolutionaire(or crazy!!)!! see you:
http://www.iqons.com/Jesus+%C2%A9opyright