You obviously didn’t expect me to read the reports you gave me as going through them, I have found a few flaws with your argument of transgene transfers. You are saying that it is detected in animals. Mmm. Try looking at the research as it was detected in fruit fly but that was because Genes were injected into the fruit fly to see if it could be transgenic. I will not be getting GM injected into my body just to check that it’s safe will I? The research done on the plants (please note that it is not cross-kingdom but plant to plant only) was done on two plants that had originated from the same species 35-60 million years ago when they diversed. This would make the DNA structure able to accept a distant relative surely.

The researchers on the experiment were amazed that the results were not more common. And I quote “Plants are far more likely to undergo interspecific crosses than are animals, plants do not sequester their germ line”. Now back to your debate. How can humans breed with rice to get the human liver genes that GM is now producing? The mind boggles!

Is It Safe:

I have answered your questions and I expect you to answer mine. When you say I am unclear I try again to get my message over. Your response here is confused and seems to avoid the question. If you dont want to discuss evidence that bears on the issues you raise, or dont want to read science that disagrees with your judgements, thats ok with me, but don't then expect readers here to take you seriously.

The argument I am putting to you as a question is using your argument applied to a natural DNA where the evidence of possible harm is much stronger than that you speculate about, and it is testing you for consistency in your logic. Its your logic I'm testing with this question. I personally have a different argument from these facts than you have.

If you want to discuss how DNA moves in the natural world, lets talk about actual science that looks at this question. The amount of evidence is actually huge - I've just given a snippet here.

On 22/2 you gave 3 reference sites, I looked at two research papers. I found the scientific tests in plain speak only looked at transgene in plants only and the other research was done on a fruit fly. Scientists use fruit flies because they breed quickly and are easily dissected and genes checked as there are minimal organs. The fruit fly was injected with transgene components. Then they checked the results. They found there were minute traces but the fly was injected not force fed. This would be the same as a fly eating something that an Aids person has touched which would show nothing and yet if the aids virus was injected into the fly then yes it would infect the fly. On the plants research, it was done on plant to plant of two plants that millions of years ago were the same. I am saying that would influence the transgene acceptance. This is natural transgene.

You are saying let’s look at the evidence and the actual science and when I do look at what you quoted you say that I should be looking at actual science and there is huge evidence? This doesn’t make sense. Yes I know that the science says that natural transgene occurs OK so it happens. But what GM is doing is doing transgene cross-kingdom with no understanding of the true implications of this bombardment. I am worried about this so you find me research that has been done to show that there is natural cross-kingdom from plant to animal and back again and then give me that evidence. And do not give me bacterial as that’s in its own field. Don’t send me on a wild goose chase to say that transgene across plant to plant is the same as cross-kingdom transgene because that is an outright lie.

What questions have I not answered? Have you given me questions other than would I eat GM? I have answered that before and said yes, but it would need to be thoroughly tested. Until then, to me GM is a biohazard.

Is it Safe
It seems that the point I am trying to make is being missed.

I am asking you about your assessment of the risks to humans of exposure to mutator MULE genes currently present in food plants that are proven to be active in scrambling and mutating target DNA.

Are they Safe?

You first raised worries of risks from exposure to Cauliflower MV promoter in GM constructs. AS I understand it, in mentioning CAMV promoter you you are talking the risks of plant DNA containing this CauMV promoter being transferred from the gut to human (liver) cells, I am thus asking why you are not even more concerned about MULE DNA following the same route you mention of transfer between plant food and human cells.

On the other points

"You obviously didn’t expect me to read the reports you gave me"
No, I genuinely hope you will read them all, and I'm happy to discuss any of them, not just selected points.

"On the plants research, it was done on plant to plant of two plants that millions of years ago were the same. I am saying that would influence the transgene acceptance. This is natural transgene."

The words "It was done" implies you think this transfer was done in the lab (it wasn't) , or that this transgene only moves between plants when the list of natural transfer it has taken part in is broader: maize, yeast Yarrowia lipolytica, flatworm Caenorhabditis,sugarcane, fungus Fusarium oxysporum, fruitfly Drosophila. Other mobile DNAs such as Mariner , even more so.

Dear Julie:

I hope you can join us in congratulating Bill Crabtree for being recognized by the GRDC, a large organization with elected officers (article trimmed to fit this space):

GRDC Seed of Light to 'No-till Bill' (22 February 2006)

Agronomist Bill Crabtree received the Grains Research and Development Corporation (GRDC) Seed of Light Award at the GRDC-supported 2006 Agribusiness Crop Updates at the Burswood Entertainment Complex last week.

Presenting the award for excellence in communication, Western Panel Chairman Dale Baker said Mr Crabtree was affectionately known as 'No-Till Bill', courtesy of more than a decade vigorously promoting no-tillage.

A Life Member of the WA No Till Farmers' Association (WANTFA), he worked for them for more than five years and edited their newsletter for 10 years.

"While best known for his promotion of no-till, Bill has in the past couple of years, outside of his full-time business of Crabtree Agricultural Consulting, promoted the potential benefits of biotechnology, especially GM canola, in WA cropping systems," Mr Baker said.

Last year Mr Crabtree conducted, with GRDC support, a series of GM workshops around WA, which attracted big numbers of farmers thirsty for information on the benefits of GM technology.

In July and August, he will host, with GRDC support, WA growers on an educational tour of Canada, looking at GM canola production systems, bio-diesel and no-till.

Mr Crabtree said he felt honoured to receive the Seed of Light, noting that he had been alerted by his own travel and consistent observations that GM crops made farmers that WA competed with more profit and less pesticide dependant than WA growers.

"I hope politics will give way to good science and the moratoria will soon be lifted," he said.

Mr Baker said the GRDC believed growers should be exposed to cutting edge agronomic information on important issues such as no-till and GM and believed Mr Crabtree had been tireless in his efforts to advance the debate and adoption of both.

"For this reason, the GRDC believes he is a very worthy recipient of the prestigious Seed of Light award for excellence in communication."

Dont want to divert IsItSafe from my Question but here stuff on mobile MARINAR type genes in plant insects and animals
Bmmar6, a second mori subfamily mariner transposon from the silkworm moth
Bombyx mori.Insect Mol Biol. 2003 Apr;12(2):167-71.

Localization of mariner DNA transposons in the human genome by PRINS.
Genome Res. 1999 Sep;9(9):839-43.

Molecular evolution of an ancient mariner transposon, Hsmar1, in the human
genome. Gene. 1997 Dec 31;205(1-2):203-17.

Mutant Mos1 mariner transposons are hyperactive in Aedes aegypti.
Insect Biochem Mol Biol. 2005 Oct;35(10):1199-207.

DNA-binding specificity of rice mariner-like transposases and interactions with
Stowaway MITEs.
Nucleic Acids Res. 2005 Apr 14;33(7):2153-65. Print 2005.

Molecular characterization of Vulmar1, a complete mariner transposon of sugar
beet and diversity of mariner- and En/Spm-like sequences in the genus Beta.
Genome. 2004 Dec;47(6):1192-201.

Identification and chromosomal localization of mariner-like elements in the
cabbage moth Mamestra brassicae (Lepidoptera).
Chromosome Res. 2003;11(4):319-22.

Aberrant transposition of a Tc1-mariner element, impala, in the fungus Fusarium
oxysporum.
Mol Genet Genomics. 2002 Mar;267(1):79-87. Epub 2002 Feb 9.

Xie H, Brines ML, de Lanerolle NC.
Transcripts of the transposon mariner are present in epileptic brain.
Epilepsy Res. 1998 Sep;32(1-2):140-53.

Characterization of Soymar1, a mariner element in soybean.
Genetics. 1998 Jul;149(3):1569-74.

Horizontal escape of the novel Tc1-like lepidopteran transposon TCp3.2 into
Cydia pomonella granulovirus.
J Mol Evol. 1998 Feb;46(2):215-24.

mle-1, a mariner-like transposable element in the nematode Trichostrongylus
colubriformis.
Gene. 1997 Apr 1;188(2):235-7.

Molecular and cytological analysis of a mariner transposon from Hessian fly.
J Hered. 1997 Jan-Feb;88(1):72-6.

Primary sequence, copy number, and distribution of mariner transposons in the
honey bee.
Insect Mol Biol. 1995 May;4(2):69-78.