I reckon Richard Eckersley, like others, including myself, find it completely unconscionable that Howard and his policies focus on the market and erodes any notion of 'society'. Even in a society where there are huge gaps between rich and poor - a sense of community and connection is surely worthwhile having?

But alas, what we get and what Howard endorses is an Australia as the land of the “Lotus Eaters”, slipping into insensibility and living moment to moment in soporific detachment from reality. Howard wants to live – and wants us to live - in a sun-drenched, guilt-free, amnesiac, credit card totting present. Apparently we aspire to be the fifty-first state of the USA – indeed, a Disney land outpost of the American economy.

Believe it or not there are thousands of Australians who feel our nation has the potential to be much more than an economy.

And I reckon JC would agree too

Ah! What passions we inspire if we dare to speak up! Maximus, thanks for your timely reminder that Jesus had (and has) a message of greater import than just money. I believe that His message was about life and eternity and (to pinch another good quote) Rev 3:17 "You say, 'I'm rich. I'm wealthy. I don't need anything.' Yet, you do not realize that you are miserable, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked."

My point was not that we do not need money, we do, but that we ought to be sure that we have money and that money does not have us! That is the issue! Lack of money is not the root of evil, rather the love of money! Poverty is indeed relative, I may struggle to pay my bills but at least I have bills to pay. The homeless unemployed person has no bills to worry about, just surviving each day is enough of a challenge. I know what problems I would rather face.

As we sit here at our computers, in our comfortable homes, pontificating about these issues, men and women are wandering our streets with nowhere to go. Thank God for those who do care, who do give of their substance to help their fellow man!

What am I bid for a well used grandmother?

Robert W's last post was perhaps the most sensible I have read on this thread thus far. At least he is aware there are poeple less fortunate than ourselves, and that not all of them are too blamed for their own situation. I personally am concerned about the worsening of an underclass of working poor (which is bad enough already) from this IR thing.

Aspro, I'll trade you my mother in law.

Someone somewhere is missing the point.

There is nothing wrong with wealth or economics for that matter. It's the oil that helps turn the wheel. It's when wealth and economics is mistaken for the wheel that things go wrong. Wealth and economics can't solve social and political problems.

No wonder some are scratching their heads at the idiocy of humans when they claim they aren't happy. Some point to increased wealth and wonder what anyone has to complain about. No one stops to think that perhaps wealth might be relative and therefore social and political problems are still going to arise.

Isn't it time we turn the finger around and say if increasing wealth is the answer then how come it isn't working?

The problem with believing in a system that relies on people wanting to increase wealth is that people have to be disatisfied with what they've got. It seems ironic therefore that the proponents of increased wealth solving social problems should turn around and complain that people just don't realise how well off they are. It stands to reason if people did then they wouldn't want more. You can't have it both ways.

I think it's about time we put economics back where it belongs - as a necessary but not driving part of life.

Valerie