I think this article makes an important point: there are some things more important than life itself, there are some things that are worth dying for. By placing being alive at the apex of concerns John Howard plays a dangerous card that he can use to justify all manner of things. The poverty of modernity is just that we do not know the things we would die for and we are liable to this kind of blackmail.

Thanks, Sneek. We’ll never agree on this. I love Brussels sprouts. You are concerned about people (as yet we don’t know who they will be) being incarcerated for days without the ‘normal’ legalities. But we are not talking about normal offences or normal people. We are talking about people, alien or homegrown, suspected of being a threat to the safety and security of Australia and its people. I know it’s a cliché, but I remind you of “no guilt, no worries”. I’m not sneering at your concern. I just think there are people much more worthy of it. Frankly, if a person is treated in the way you object to, there must be a reason, and I’m all for it.

As for Scott Parkin, I would have thought that you would have objected to a foreigner, and a Yank at that, preaching here (even if you agree with him). At the very least, it was an extremely ignorant thing of him to do. We might not know what he did, but we know his leanings and his record, and he was certainly running meetings. In matters of security and foreign policy, we cannot be told the ins and outs of cases for the very reason of security.

As you say, an Australian citizen could be caught up (in all but deportation). Again, this doesn’t concern me one iota. You don’t agree because you say the dominant view of threat to Australia is “wrong”. I don’t know how you come to that conclusion. I thought the stats and polls were different, but even if you are right, we, as you point out, don’t know what ASIO and other intelligence services do know about possible threats. We could very well crap ourselves if we did.

When it’s all boiled down, we have to put trust in “these types”. All we get is one vote every now and then in an imperfect system which is still better than anything else available. At least we can still air our opinions without fear.

Regards

Mark

Thanks for your timely article.

I like your notion of being " ... detached but not disinterested". Quite thought provoking for me.

Cheers
Kay

Hey sneekepeete,

>>Look to the latest; an American teacher and activist was deported becuase he was seen by ASIO as a security risk.... We can expect more of the same; but it will be Australian citizens next time<<

Remember this? From the Sydney Morning Herald 21/1/04

"Ian 'Molly' Meldrum refused to eat his first meal while locked up in Los Angeles international airport yesterday, a high-ranking US customs official said today.... The veteran Australian celebrity interviewer was deported from the US last night and landed back in Melbourne this morning."

The battle has already been lost, unfortunately. Once these acts are seen as standard operating procedure, there's no turning back. Politicians just love doing stuff that curtails our freedom in the name of "looking after us". And in return for being so caring of us, they can use our money to protect themselves with bodyguards, police escorts and so on. Love it.

John Howard and his Liberal team have done more to stir up irrational fear and disrupt our lives than the terrorists.

The fear mongerers tell us about the Muslim terrorists and their atrocities, but the ones who have developed and control a nuclear arsenal that would wipe out all life on earth and have invaded and terrorised a soveriegn nation (because they were were suspected of trying to make a nuclear weapon)are the ones capitalising on all this fear to introduce all sorts of repressive laws and ID cards.

Remember the right-wing statistics on this - they say that more people have been murdered by their own governments than other nation's armies.

Remember also Thatcher's complaint that too many citizens look to governments to help them. Okay Australian Government why don't you just trust us, empower us instead of trying to cripple us.

God Bless Jimmy Dowling -- as for Liberal Member for Pine Rivers, Peter Dutton, you and your henchmen mates have lost all credibilty when it comes to talking of democracy and concern for societies members. No excuse for physically abusing a harmless little fellow like Jim.

Blowing up buses,trains or buildings only cause minor disruptions.If they can get their hands on processed uranium or nerve gas or biological weapons,they can paralyse an entire city and thus destroy whole economies.The threat is real because we know the intent is there.

These nutters have been doing this for decades.Just because a bomb has not gone off for while doesn't mean it will never happen.They could well be planning something really big.Their long term aim is to expand the Muslim philosophy and laws.When you know you've got Allah on your side,reason and common sense means nothing.

When the planes hit the Twin Towers,there were reports of many dancing in the streets here in jubilation.While most don't feel this way,a sizable proportion do.