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The Forum > Article Comments > The fourth 'R' > Comments

The fourth 'R' : Comments

By Chris Abood, published 10/11/2005

Chris Abood argues Australia needs a long-term information and computer technology strategy for our schools.

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Something which would be of great benefit, would be more instruction on how bits of software 'inter-relate' to the Web etc.

SOFTWARE/WEB INTER-RELATION
Some understanding of how various things like 'Cold Fusion', PHP Web Databases, and the such like fit in to the Web design scheme of things could help.
You don't need to know how the Database itself is programmed , but knowing how they relate to each other is helpful.
Of course, this becomes almost an info-tech beginners course, but as time goes by, most of us will want to do 'more' with web sites etc, so this is basic in my opinion. Most can be learnt on the net or from it, but guidance early on would be good.

I might be totally behind the 8ball here, not really knowing what is taught at school, so maybe its already done ?

THE FUTILITY OF PROGRAMMING CAREERS
Anyone thinking of going into 'programming' these days needs as much therapy as one who thinks manufacturing automotive parts will be 'on-going'.

OUTSOURCING
I believe there will be a greater trend to people sourcing goods from various parts of the world and offering them on the net, so it doesn't matter so much 'where' we are located. The important thing is knowing how to manage and build up web sites without having to pay megabucks to do it. Even THIS could be done via chat rooms and email with a a good working relationship with some Indian/malaysian/Philippino Web developer....

THE ALTERNATIVE ?
So, maybe the real 'R' we need is not an R but an E for "Entrepreneur"
and an "I" for international trader.

EXAMPLE
I encountered such a trader on a chat room once, where the "person" chatting was in fact an Artificial Intelligence cyber robot ! You can have a complete conversation with one. It referred to a web site where customers could place orders for retail goods, was linked up to a major supply warehouse, all orders were automatically sent to it, and without any input from the trader, deliveries were made, funds received and commissions allocated.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Saturday, 12 November 2005 10:34:57 AM
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There is a great deal of naivity about what programming is and is not. Programmers do not build computers any more than mathematicians build calculators.

What I said before clearly did not sink in: "We are given calculators, but we still need to know how to ADD (do addition)". The analogy is very apt: And knowing how to add does not mean one knows how to build a calculator.

Programming is not a futile career and for that matter neither is manufacturing. But I do agree with the rest of what David BOAZ said.
Posted by David Latimer, Tuesday, 22 November 2005 12:00:43 PM
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>>What I said before clearly did not sink in<<

Well, Mr Latimer, perhaps that was because you didn't make much sense.

You assert that "IT literacy will be very important for our future" without making any effort to explain why and how the ability to "write a simple computer program, spreadsheet formula, database query and/or hypertext document" might actually help anyone in real life.

I can only assume that you are an academic, to whom teaching is an important function in itself, with the automatic presumption that any form of learning must be equally important.

I have successfully navigated more than thirty years in the IT industry without claiming to be the slightest bit IT Literate in the sense you seem to be promoting. I can write a letter, fill in a spreadsheet and put together a reasonable slide presentation, but that is the result of a few hours exposure, not of a "long-term information and computer technology strategy for our schools."

"Programming is not a futile career" is a statement I totally agree with. I employ some of the brightest and best in the industry, and I have nothing but respect and admiration for their skill and prowess. But it has absolutely nothing to do with the argument for "IT literacy for all", which is a red herring, and an absolute furphy to boot.
Posted by Pericles, Wednesday, 23 November 2005 9:37:10 AM
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Response to Pericles:

You can "write a letter, fill in a spreadsheet and put together a reasonable slide presentation"

Wow!

Just be thankful that you're closer to the end of your career rather than starting it. Be thankful that you are employing the best, rather than having to produce yourself. I suppose you imagine than high school leavers can purchase the necessary skills, as you say you do.

OK, an example from this morning: I checked 2000 invoices for an potential overcharge using:
- an SQL query to collect the data
- a pivot table to line up the data
- a spreadsheet formula to identify the overcharge

Without decent IT skills, it would have taken 1-2 days or not done at all, but in every respect it was a routine task, nothing special.

You think I am an academic? What the fish? Have you noticed that every office desk has a computer? They're not for typing nice letters back and forth. Even in the trades' workshops there's computers!

Sorry Pericles, I am incredulous!
Posted by David Latimer, Wednesday, 23 November 2005 6:57:17 PM
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>>Sorry Pericles, I am incredulous!<<

Please don't feel that you need to apologise.

Once again, I have to ask why you feel it is important that everyone has the skills that you have, simply in order to correct mistakes made in an accounting system. Wouldn't it be far more sensible to spend your time doing what you are paid to do - clearly you are a bookkeeper rather than an academic - as opposed to checking 2000 invoices for errors?

If your accounting system had been built properly - by professional programmers who took pride in their work - mere users would not be stuck with the need to build their own programs to fix problems.

In fact, by having the skills you do have, you are perpetuating and encouraging a massive waste of resources. Instead of insisting that the system is put right once and for all, you use the skills you have to patch up, make do, and never ever solve the problem's root cause.

The difference is that if we give everybody a little learning - which is all a school course could ever do - they might think, as you obviously do, that they are some form of programmer. And they will spend their time trying to find ways to use their knowledge ('cos it's such a buzz, being able to write SQL statements, isn't it?) rather than let IT professionals build a proper, functional and idiot-proof IT environment for them.
Posted by Pericles, Thursday, 24 November 2005 9:07:26 AM
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Response to Pericles:

So now I am a bookkeeper! If I were to give another example you'd say I was a community worker, or another example a writer, or another example I'd be a statistician!

What on earth makes you think there is anything wrong with our accounting system? Or that looking for a potential overcharge is not doing one's job or part of finding root causes? Writing SQL queries is not a buzz. It's a routine task, which is exactly what I wrote.

Once you make something "idiot-proof" along comes a more advanced idiot.
Posted by David Latimer, Thursday, 24 November 2005 9:32:40 AM
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