Col Rouge: What arrant nonsense you spouted in your donation to this discussion.
Many in your position repeat " Help the poor and they will be poor again" This tawdry, unproved phrase is a sop used to cover up your selfishness.
You said: The issue of poverty is derived from the absence etc. So the poor are also stupid and could not manage their finances so caused their own misfortune.
What utter bilge and arrogance!
How would have my parents planned or managed their financial affairs during a world wide depression the same during WW/2. My parents caused neither of these catastrophes, but they had to live through them. My mother was on her own through most of the war years. Many were of course in the same situation they, these idiots who could not manage their finances, lost everthing but they, and their children survived.That must prove something even to you.
Then today a lot of mature proud men and women have been sacked. Not because they were unfit for work or lacked skills.
They were sacked because the CEOs wanted bigger profits thus bigger bonuses. Or their firms went belly-up.
Is this the fault of those dismissed, and now perhaps unemployable?
In your eyes they and their now deprived children will always be poor because of their sudden inability to manage their affairs.
Col you appear to be a fine liberal, a complete unfeeling ass, (same thing) or a total uncaring ding-a-ling. numbat

Numbat,

The people in the Depression, of which my grandparents were, didn't have anywhere near the safety net that is provided today so it is a different situation.

Given that though, most of them survived and worked bloody hard to scrape by in the trying conditions.

What Col has said is that continuous welfare does not help anyone. He has never advocated removing all welfare because sometimes people need it.

However, long term welfare is another thing, when kids grow up with neither parent working that is too long on welfare. There are jobs out there for people that want to work - it may involve a move or it may not be the perfect job but it would be work while you look for something you would prefer.

Welfare is good in small doses, but when it becomes a lifestyle it is a problem.

t.u.s

I think you should be spouting your venom at me not Col after all he just agreed with what I had said.

Sure many companies are not managed in the public interest but that is not the issue here. It is also clear that handing out money to the poor does not make them wealthy.

Just as poverty is not just about money neither is wealth. Money is what frequently results from the following behaviours:

Wealth comes from wise management of money, hard work, setting goals, delaying gratification, being frugal, planning ahead, good investments, avoiding addiction, learning skills, being a good employee, doing the best job you can, giving value for money, showing kindness and gratitude etc.

You'll find the poor often lack these characteristics and consequently lack money.

People who avoid work, do as little as possible for their money, try to get an advantage over others, resent rich people, fell they are "owed" more, are prone to addicition,want everything immediately, don't plan ahead, constantly seek pleasure and relaxation, don't look after themselves also tend to be poor as a consequence.

The wealthy are not the cause of poverty, in fact without the wealthy the poor would be poorer because there would be no-one to generate wealth!

Hmmm...I've recently done a diploma...I thought it would improve my chances of secure employment...that was why I committed two years of my life to complete it...i worked hard and met deadlines...my classmates however bludged, taking days off whenever they felt like... 12 months later I'M the one out of secure employment... whilst the bludgers found work!

My life experiences prove Atman to be a complete idiot. Or maybe just has'nt faced much adversity.

In life there are positive reinforcements and negative reinforcements. People living in poverty often face constant negative reinforcements, which affects motivation levels and the drive to succed. Wealthy people, have more positve reinforcement which propel them upwards.

Although I am technically employed, I am really under-employed. My 'mate' sent out three applications and secured employment. I have sent out 106 applications and recieved twice as many rejections (work that out!). After a steady stream of negative reinforcements my psychology has changed from excited 'get up and go' enthusiasm too 'why should I have to look harder than THEM'.

So when people say people in poverty don't work hard enough, in my present state of mind, I will smack 'em out!

“Wealth comes from wise management of money, hard work, setting goals, delaying gratification, being frugal, planning ahead, good investments, avoiding addiction, learning skills, being a good employee, doing the best job you can, giving value for money, showing kindness and gratitude etc.”

Atman – you can do all the ‘right’ things and you can still get shafted. Many people do all of the above – they aren’t wealthy (whatever that means) - they may not even be employed.

This is why we need a safety net. As I have stated previously (from direct experience) and Numbat has acknowledged, the bludgers are in the minority. Why should the bulk of people, who want desperately to work, be penalised for the actions of the few?

I’m very grateful I saved enough money so that I don’t have to apply for the dole. I can go about applying for work in a rational way that suits me. On the dole you have to supply 10 signed job applications per fortnight. Even before I became unemployed, I was looking for alternative work and I was lucky if I saw 4 jobs per fortnight that I was qualified for and sounded like good places to work.

The dole is about quantity not quality – the attitude is that people should accept anything for any low level of pay. This is not conducive for either long term employment or for a viable living wage. At 51, I don’t think I could dig ditches indefinitely and I doubt the pay would cover my mortgage.

I am, of course, prepared to take lower level work & pay in the interim. So please don’t beat me up with a diatribe of “I should take anything and be grateful” when it is not you unemployed and you do not know me – or the detail of my circumstances. Clearly there are limitations on a post and I do not wish to share all my personal details.

PS – Thanks Numbat for using paragraphs. I may not always agree with U but at least I can take your POV on board.

Atman “Wealth comes from wise management of money, hard work, setting goals, delaying gratification, being frugal, planning ahead, good investments, avoiding addiction, learning skills, being a good employee, doing the best job you can, giving value for money, showing kindness and gratitude etc.”

Agree –

As you said “Planning ahead, learning skills, doing the best job… etc”
and as I said “…societal and other competencies needed to effectively manage ones own affairs and plan ones own destiny / outcomes.”

Same statement different words.

Numbat – your hissing fit is not worthy of direct response.
Please moderate the invective or I will have to show you up by putting you down and that would be almost as good as taking you to the rollercoaster in Luna park, the sort of thing which delights children (although you would probably throw-up).

Trinity – I have been self employed for over 20 years. That does not mean I have known periods of slow/low activity and been challenged to find solutions to meet my cash flow needs – nowadays I have at least 3 -4 projects either earning of lined up to earn – as Atman and I would say “it is all in the attitude” and the skills.

Davo – don’t get down hearted, we all try things which do not succeed but go on to success by virtue of our determination. Life will often seem unfair.
We have to believe in ourselves before others will believe in us or to put it another way… we project what we become, if you project and live with a negative expectation – that is what you get- If you want a positive outcome – try expecting and projecting it – that is what works for me. Oh finally - do not look for secure employment, it is no substitute for the "security" you will find by being true to who you are after you have developed a positive attitude.