Solomon, Rego fees Qld: 6cyl Landcruiser $362.60 (+ CTP $700+ pa) 4cyl Corolla $256.90.

What you don't consider is that LC drivers pay big at the fuel station. A 100LC has a 145L fuel tank. John Howard and his mates love these vehicles because they know they make a fortune out of us. Wake up mate. We're getting ripped off every day. Not everyone is able to choose to drive a small, economical vehicle to work. You obviously live in your ideal little world, where you believe everything you say and do is right. Well guess what? There's not always a right or wrong way. What may be right for some may not be right for others and visa versa. We can't all ride on public transport (or ride our bike to the beach) or drive Corolla's either (or want to for that matter)! The large 4WDs cost $140+ to refuel (depending, of course, in what part of Australia we happen to be fortunate enough to reside). Some of us have to do this several times a week, out of necessity. We don't have your nice bitumen sealed roads to drive on which you complain about to your local council every time you get a pot-hole. We have to traverse roads which are completely filled with pot-holes and corrugation. Often the best (and safest) route to take is to go completely off road - try doing that in your Corolla. We have to deal with gravel roads, single lane roads, unfenced roads (cattle roaming onto roads), unmarked roads, you name it and you want to put OUR rego up! We are the ones subsidising YOU in the CITY. Think about THAT! Take notice mate, if you go out of your city, onto some single lane back roads, you will find it will be LC owners like myself who have the decency to get off the road and give the bloomin' lot to ungrateful blokes like you. Maybe next time you see a LC driver you should go up to him/her and say "Thanks mate, for helping to subsidise our roads.

With respect to Greg's article, I have recently commented favourably to friends on the regular bus service in the area I now live in for a large amount of my time. It appears to be very efficient, however, with my lifestyle, it is not appropriate for me. Although it may not seem much to city commuters, an hourly service is quite impressive where I live - from 6.30 am to about 10.30 pm. However, it is not always convenient or practical for everyone. Having travelled in many of our capital cities as well as overseas, I concede that our public transport system does need improvement.

Hi Hutlen, I feel for you greatly and am restraining myself from expressing my true feelings as to what I feel you should have "done" to THAT employee when you returned to the station. It is because of useless transport employees, like the one you encountered, that the lives of our children are endangered when they are travelling on public transport e.g. Daniel Morcombe. Surely there must be departmental policies transport employees must follow with regards to young children who are unaccompanied? It obviously needs to be addressed in the bus and train sectors of our public transport systems - whether or not policies etc. exist at present - they are not being applied.

Brightside,

My what a temper .... you missed the point, or I didn't make it clearly: yes, I live in the city, and I was talking about people driving 4WDs in the city. Wouldn't it be true that most 4wds in Australia are driven around cities and never leave a sealed road ?

I've read that the US car fleet, as a whole, has actually become less fuel efficient over the last 10 years as a result of the increased proportion of 4wd / SUVs. Presumably the same is true in Australia. And that is just plain stupid. You may claim a right to do whatever you want to do, but I would disagree - you have a responsibility to everyone else you share this planet with.

If people need to use 4WDs as part of their work they can claim tax deductions for them, and the fuel they use. I think if you're a primary producer there are further deductions you can claim. Surely we can come up with some improved system that would offer concessions to those that need to use 4WDs, but would still discourage people buying them for city use.

No Solomon, I don't have a temper. I just know how to get your attention. In future, I suggest you be more specific - & think before you type. I wanted to show you how your comments can affect other people although you only apparently intended it to affect those 4WD users in the city.

As far as primary producer's are concerned, they are only reimbursed the GST & EOY taxes like anyone else in business. Qld has the Qld Fuel Subsidy Scheme (available to the general public at retail outlets), but PPs who have their fuel delivered in bulk don't receive it unless they go through hefty paperwork (particularly if they also purchase fuel from retail outlets) often making the claims unviable (because you have to advise all fuel purchases made from retail outlets). The other deductions you talk about are the ATO Diesel Fuel Rebate Schemes (Off Road and On Road) only applicable to trucks, tractors, harvesters, stationary engines etc (not applicable to 4WDs).

I don't claim a right to do whatever I want to do, just that not everyone has the opportunity to do what they would like to do. No-one else in this country is more aware of the damage being done on a daily basis to our precious Australia than PPs. PPs look in every aspect of their daily routines to limit the use of fuels, water, fertilizers, chemicals to preserve Australia and the planet.. but it is the PP who is always persecuted FIRST because the PP is an easy target. PPs can't afford to waste fuel - profit margins are too small as it is. If the PP doesn't look after his/her land and environment he/she will have nothing to farm the next season and therefore no crop, no income, no food on the table, say goodbye to life on the land. If you don't look after the land, it can't look after you.

Your final suggestion has merit. However, I can't see that happening. That is why they removed Sales Tax Exemption and brought in GST. PPs are worse off with GST.

Brightside,

No, your abusive post didn't "get my attention" - I logged on, to read the comments, not even knowing it was there.

Surely the value of this site is that people respond to ideas with ideas: this thread started off with someone pointing out the pollution etc from cars and advocating a move to public transport. I agreed there is a problem, suggested public transport will never suit everyone's needs, and proposed some things we could do to address the problem - encourage people to move to more efficient vehicles, invest in better traffic management etc.

If you wanted to contribute by adding that we have to remember that people in the country need to use 4WDs, fine. No abuse necessary. But you don't seem to have any ideas for addressing the problem. I could threaten your view of PPs by moving on to the topic of land clearing, rising salt etc but that's not the topic of this thread. The problem, Brightside, is how to deal with the bad effects of our current use of vehicles - any ideas ?

Hi Solomon, Well they breed them softer in the city than I thought. I wasn't "abusing" you. From the comments I have read in the forum I would say people "abuse" Greg Barns - which are of a totally
different tone.

You asked for suggestions. You have been looking at the consumer. Wrong.

You need to go to the "core" of the problem. The manufacturer of the vehicles. The manufacturer of the engines. The biggest problem is they have too many SHARES or other interests in the fuel companies so they are reluctant to do the RIGHT thing. Ethanol has come a long way, but the manufacturers & govt will tell you otherwise. You need to lobby the govt to force the manufacturers to "fine-tune", if you like, the engines that are suitable for 85% ethanol to be imported into the country. The manufacturers need to be given a time limit within which to comply. After such time, they will not be allowed to import vehicles into our country.

They are the ones who need to be accountable. They should also be encouraged to design substitute engines/engine parts for existing vehicles - with emphasis to be placed on the larger vehicles to start with. As larger vehicles in the cities appear to be the major concern, these could be the first to be targeted for modification. Owners of these vehicles could be given $ incentives (perhaps those who take up the offer within the first two years receive e.g. 70% rebate, after 5 years only 10% rebate).

Don't be fooled the ethanol stocks are out there and the technology exists. Govt just doesn't want to know about it because it is making too much money out of fuel. It's all political. They would rather import oil than produce Ethanol from sugarcane grown from our own soil. By the way, I'm not a cane grower.

You might find these sites interesting:-
www.ethanol.org
www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/