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The Forum > Article Comments > Don't use the 'f' (for fail) word > Comments

Don't use the 'f' (for fail) word : Comments

By Peter West, published 18/5/2005

Peter West highlights the problems of maintaining academic excellence at Australian universities.

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I was wondering why Brendan Nelson was wearing a yak shawl the other day...
Posted by Rainier, Wednesday, 18 May 2005 9:35:17 PM
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This is offensive, regardless of the point the author might be trying to make. Is the Hanson-esque bemoaning of "special treatment" returning to our discourse? The sentence West chooses to play with: "all students are special but some are more special than others" is ironically taken from Animal Farm's : "All animals are equal but some are more equal than others" [I'm not sure if that's completely correct wording]. It's extremely poignant for Australian society - all Australians are 'equal'in this democratic nation, but some are 'more equal' than others in that they seem lucky enough to access more wealth, health, education, status. Those who are 'less equal' (ie disadvantaged) should not be denied the 'special' treatment - ESL classes, remedial and academic assistance, financial assistance, culturally appropriate health care - which is necessary to make them 'as equal' as the people they are, on paper,'equal' to!
Posted by Cara, Monday, 23 May 2005 2:37:12 PM
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Thanks for the article Peter. Unlike Cara, I was not offended by it. On the contrary, I was amazed how close it was to a conversation I had with a senior nurse academic when I was teaching at a Qld University in 1995. The student of concern could barely speak broken English and was unable to comprehend classroom conversation. I allowed her to submit numerous drafts (for my on-going feedback) of her work before final submission. She had a private tutor. Each time she submitted another draft it became crystal clear that the written word was not hers. The written language was entirely different. She could not explain to me the meaning of what was recorded in writing. Plagiarism in the work was rife. I refused to pass the student. The senior academic then marked the work and passed the student. This happened on many occasions with many students. English speaking Australian students were not given the same "privileges".

More recently I marked for another university nursing program. The head stopped me marking after the first paper - on the grounds that the failure rate was too high and students were overwhelmed because they were not used to receiving so much construcitve feedback (English was the first language of most of this group of students). Also I detected heaps of plagiarism which I could not check because the university did not provide external markers with a log in key.

Spare me! Students have an equal right to pass - just as they have an equal right to fail!!
Posted by kalweb, Monday, 23 May 2005 5:01:00 PM
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Fantastic article Peter. SO real - you didn't leave a microcassette recorder in some Dean's office somewhere did you?

Can't say I'm surprised at this situation and I am so grateful I have my degree now. I doubt I could've raised kids and educated myself in today's 'user pays' system of education.

When I was at Uni there were many people from lower income/working class. We were so keen, so hungry for good grades. I wonder if there are as many single parents at uni now?

How do you maintain academic excellence when a degree is based upon ability to pay rather than ability to achieve?
Posted by Ringtail, Monday, 23 May 2005 5:24:10 PM
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I agree that there are many problems with the university system and whole-heartedly agree with Ringtail about people with money but not academic ability being preferred.

What I am uncomfortable with is the tendency of some Australians to make sweeping statements about non-Western groups getting unfair "special treatment" when in many cases they are simply receiving support to enable them to engage on a level playing field with Westerners.

If universities lose sight of academic brilliance and become money-hungry and unfair in their treatment of students then it is the fault of the university and not a particular racial/cultural group.

I'm not necessarily charging Peter with this but I get nervous about scapegoating and felt I had to speak up about the way this article (though intended as a satirical piece about the wide-ranging problems of user-pay universities) could be used unethically by those inclined to racism as "further proof" of "rich asians" (for example) being "favoured" and getting "special treatment".
Posted by Cara, Tuesday, 24 May 2005 1:20:41 PM
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Well said Cara and Ringtail, another problem that prevents markers failing those who deserve to fail and providing useful and honest feedback to all, is the litigous nature of some students.

The fact that they have paid or will be paying lots of money for their education makes it more likely that they will resort to accusations of bias and discrimination
Posted by Mollydukes, Tuesday, 24 May 2005 5:09:31 PM
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Cara - Peter's article is almost identical to that which happened to me as a very experienced nurse academic (see above) - and I have only noted two university nursing programs for which I worked - there were more!

I fail to see how Peter is scapegoating ? As I said - it happened almost word for word for me - with both Australian students and overseas students. The almighty dollar is not always the primary issue I can asure you. Many academics have fragile egos! They need their students to pass - to support their "fragile ego syndromes", vis a vis: the academic person's ego system.

I have taught nursing students from Hong Kong, Thailand, Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia and Africa. I have also taught Indigenous Australians. There is no doubt in my mind that all of these groups of students wanted to do well.

I withdrew from marking the works of Indigenous Australians because their Co-ordinator would not allow me to impose the same standards on them as I did with other Australian students from disadvantaged backgrounds. And I stress that I was always impressed with students from Hong Kong. They worked on their studies non stop! I can attest to that - since my telephone often rang until midnight. I had to change to a silent number so that I could get proper sleep!

But I am a masochist I suppose. I am about to do some marking for another university nursing program! Dedicated markers provide students with as much feedback that they can. I want students to regard assignment submission as a learning experience. Therefore it is my responsibility to provide students with as much constructive feedback as I possibly can. I do not fail students. They fail themselves (for a variety of reasons which I can explore another time). I hate to think that students think of assignments as only a pass/failure exercise! Where is the on-going learning in that?

Cheers
Posted by kalweb, Tuesday, 24 May 2005 5:41:08 PM
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I concur with Cara's remarks about dog-whistling racism and bigotry.

From my experience, just as much plagiarism (especially with the advent of the internet) has been detected of students who come from the same cultural, ethic and socio-economic background of those who teach them.

So it’s a much bigger picture than simply identifying immigrants, Indigenous or non European students as the ‘problem’. But I also know this argument attracts bigots like sh*^$t attracts flies.

Instead let’s look at the slashes to university funding over the past 9 years which have had a significant effect on quality and standards in university education. The rise of entrepreneurial universities is now a reality and universities are finding it hard to balance the quality teaching and learning with financial survival.

Students/teacher/tutor ratios soared from about 14 in 1993 to 21 in 2003 and it’s around 25 now. When this happens there are big limitations on how to test student’s knowledge and mass examinations are being revisited in disciplines that prided themselves with developing assessment that measured more than memory and the regurgitation of facts.

Have a look at the so called reforms that Kevin Andrews and Brendan Nelson have recently released. From this you will see that the new Higher Education Workplace Relations Requirements (HEWRRs) for Australian higher education institutions will only further debilitate dedicated university teachers who are already under enormous pressure to deliver quality teaching.

If you think 'soft marking' is a problem you're barking up the wrong tree. Its certainly a problem but its also a symptom of a bigger problem again
Posted by Rainier, Monday, 30 May 2005 4:48:01 PM
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Rainier - I am not racist. See my two comments above. I have taught into 5 university nursing programs. I have taught across many cultures as stated. Plagiarism was rife in most. Even so, Peter's presented scenario was almost word for word to that which happpened to me at one particular university. It was deja vu for me when reading it. I thought I was reading about me. Cheers Kay
Posted by kalweb, Monday, 30 May 2005 6:55:46 PM
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Kay, I didn't accuse you of being racist...?
Just pointing out that this debate attracts the usual simplistic thinking that blames students cos its easy to do...and they put themselves up as a hero/martyr/upholder of academic standards at the same time - and are often devoid of any solutions or analysis on the bigger picture. The interesting observation from my experience is that many first year Australian students have very poor writing skills and spend their first year catching up.

This quote from on online article

http://www.idp.com/17aiec/selectedpapers/

"The present study has clearly shown that Korean overseas students at UNSW were experiencing difficulty in their course of study due to the unsatisfactory quality of teaching and an inadequate infrastructure of the learning environment, including student support services"
Posted by Rainier, Monday, 30 May 2005 9:27:04 PM
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