The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > The young people's Pope > Comments

The young people's Pope : Comments

By Helen Ransom, published 8/4/2005

Helen Ransom talks about Pope John Paul II from the perpective of a young Australian.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. All
'and the hope that he has returned to God.' writes Helen Ransom. Well if he hasn't - wot a total waste of time for the old pontiff.

I fail to see anything that the pope has done for young people. No ordination of women, no contraception, no abortion, no action on priestly paedophilia; just the usual 'women have their place' rhetoric which is apparently to breed and not much else.

A celibate male does not make for a healthy understanding of human frailty.

Next pope s/b a black lesbian - who is far from celibate.
Posted by Xena, Saturday, 9 April 2005 12:28:32 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Xena, John Paul II has provided a black and white world view for young (and old) people who need certainty in their lives. His views concur with those who need rigidity in the way they view the world. For people who can't cope with the unknown or the fact that life is not neat nor certain, the late Pope has given them what they want. I'm talking about those who believe if you live your life according to ancient texts (or rather, your interpretation of them) good things will happen and everything will be alright.

Of course, life is not like that. We have non-heterosexual people, we have non-believers, bad things happen to good people and nobody really knows what happens when you die. It is a shame young Catholics cannot cope with the messiness of life and random, meaningless events that crop up. But that's their problem. So long as they don't inflict their beliefs on others they can think what they like. It is weird, though, how people who never knew John Paul II personally now feel bereft. But that is the consequence of following a leader without questions and without criticism.
Posted by DavidJS, Saturday, 9 April 2005 1:26:53 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
People felt bereft when Diana died also. Totally amazing to me but there you go.

I agree David, it is the complexity and bewildering array of choice available to young people today that means some of them look for certainty and a clear way of telling right from wrong. So difficult to think these things through rationally.

The Catholic church also offers that air of authenticity - it is so 'old'. The priests wear such lovely costumes and all that ritual is quite seductive and meaningful to the lost and lonely.

If I was going to turn religious I think I'd go for Catholicism rather than an American-style evangelical church. All that falling down and talking in tongues, and those bad guitar players!
Posted by Mollydukes, Saturday, 9 April 2005 6:35:10 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Molly, I'd go for the Quakers - gay friendly and everyone shuts up and lets you think. No bad music or priests crapping on.

It is dismaying that many young people appear to need direction in their lives. Why can't people create their own direction? Why can't people embrace uncertainty and randomness? Why do they need to attach themselves to celebrities? In regard to the last point, the consequences are quite upsetting. John Paul II dies because he human like everyone else and people are traumatised. Maybe some critical and analytic thinking is in order here.
Posted by DavidJS, Monday, 11 April 2005 8:06:30 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The content of the comments so far would tend to indicate that contraception & abortion could be valued as restrospective instruments...no Luke Skywalkers to save these Darth Vaders!

Let's hope you are all correct on judgement day, if there is one...
Posted by Reality Check, Monday, 11 April 2005 5:03:51 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
David, everyone needs direction in their lives and everyone who finds that direction does it on their own. A young person turning to the Church is doing exactly that – finding their own direction in life.

Uncertainty and randomness is everybody’s lot in life. No one really knows where they’ll be in 10 years time. Life would be pretty dull if you did. The only certainty people want is that they’ll be able to pay their mortgage or rent every month, and that they or their loved ones aren’t going to drop dead at any tick of the clock. Even these things are pretty uncertain, yet people continue to take out mortgages, get married and have children. My view is that life is uncertain and random and most people embrace life.

I haven’t seen too many who could be described as “traumatized” by the death of the Pope. It’s pretty bad when people can’t shed a tear for the passing of someone whom they respected and admired.

Having said that, it’s interesting to see that beneath that generally sensible and compassionate exterior there lurks in our DavidJS at least a small piece of dark, cold, flint.
Posted by bozzie, Monday, 11 April 2005 6:09:42 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
It should not be fear of the consequences of ‘judgement day’ that turns anyone to believe in God surely? Wow that is medieval. And I guess that I am prepared to take that chance. No problem. I don’t want to live forever and if hell is my fate then I will use logic and rationality to cope with it.

Critical and analyitical thinking is always in order and some Christians really do this. I don’t know much about the Quakers though I think that nun who was in the movie ‘Dead Man Walking’ was a quaker?

But I listen to the Religion Report on Radio National and I am constantly amazed at the depth of analysis and uncertainty about the meaning of Christ and God revealed by some of the Christians interviewed. This sort of humility and critical thinking is not reflected by those who contribute to these forums. Some of them even seem to know when an abomination is not an abomination and when it really is.

We all need something though don’t we? I use various philosophies, Spinoza, Buddhism and some of the easy postmodernists, even science I guess provides a basis for my thinking about right and wrong.

One thing that I find interesting is that the Australian Indigenous didn’t evolve a theology that projected human attributes onto a metaphysical being. Their religions are very sophistictated and not simple ancestor worship or the dreamtime myths.

I suspect that it is when humans develop the power to ‘take dominion’ over the earth and it’s creatures that they need to invoke some sort of deity that tells them it is okay to do this. And today we can even take dominion over our own DNA. That makes formulating ones own moral code very difficult I spose.
Posted by Mollydukes, Monday, 11 April 2005 7:28:47 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Bozzie, you obviously haven't been following media reporting from Italy, Poland and elsewhere in Europe. There have indeed been many people for whom the late Pope's death is a traumatic experience. That is how they are articulating it and I have no reason to disbelieve it. No doubt they will recover but for them it appears almost like a death in the family.

Given John Paul II's opinions on homosexuality and gay families, I am not likely to warm to him nor his supporters on these issues. My heart does become very cold and unforgiving.

However, I'll be generous enough not to describe Catholicism as "evil" or "an objective disorder". And far be it for me to label priestly cellibacy and child molestation as "a culture of death".
Posted by DavidJS, Tuesday, 12 April 2005 8:25:26 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy