As many of you know I am a critic of the rodent and his greedy gutless government.
Having read Helen's story I am appalled at the heartlessness & brutality of howard, vanstone,(fancy a woman treating pregnant women the way she did-UGH!) downer and ruddock. What is worse is that these hard hearted,unfeeling, merciless,pitiless uncompassionate, totally mean spirited bunch of b******s have by repeating lousy lies (goebel's like propaganda) they have taken the Australian people with them. They have made us a hard hearted mean spirited bunch of b******s as well. How they must despise us as electors who voted for a man most of us see as dishonest. Why did we do so - they threw us pieces of silver to vote for them and their barbaric policies. If they have to pay for their bastardry then so will we as these-I hesitate to call them men & women)ignoble parasites did it all in our names. Regards, numbat PS. Editor:I hope this is fit for printing if not please censor it and put it on your page.

Numbat, while I wouldn't have expressed it in quite the same way I agree with your sentiments. Hypocrasy triumpant in Howard's government. Howard will be remembered in history but not the way he would like - truth does eventually rise to the surface. Howard's inhumane policies will reveal him for the great manipulator he is.
Cheers

Do howard haters realise they lose all credibility in a rational debate when they compare the current government to nazi germany.

It is an insult to the intelligence and morality of the Australian public and worse an insult to the six million Jews who were gassed during World War II.

So hate John Howard and Amanda Vanstone if you wish, but please do not lose sight of what real evil and hatred has gone on before.

t.u.s

Helens article displays the problem of all government - the exercising of "compassion".
Such "human" expression is only viable as one individual to another. In the case of the Mrs Hu - a ministerial intercession which will be measured as valiant by some and criticised by others.
The issue of the pregannt ladies was one which would also merit "compassionate" intervention (particularly with the benefit of hindsight) - yet government did not extend it.
All this comes down to -

how far should we go to support the type of political system which operates in China today?

Do we expect greater democratic change if we trade or if we isolate it?

Answer the latter and you will answer the former and maybe resolve the problem which initiates people fleeing from such political systems.

the usual suspects - yes I agree - it is inappropriate for people to criticise "Australian authorities" for the actions of "Chinese authorities" - unless someone is going to make the argument that we should colonise China for its own moral good.

DAMN! this 'selective' sensitivity makes me even angrier than I was! of COURSE we ought to be showing consideration to this old woman and her family. why on earth we DONT show the same compassion, or anything even remotely like it, to all of those thousands of OTHER worthies irks me. as a nation we're seen throughout the region (let alone afghanistan etc) BY THE CITIZENS to be a bunch of racists. elitists. smug white people. I sooooo wish I were kidding. if the tsanami had happened at any other time of the year, we would have been upset, and would have responded, but nowhere near as much or as fast as when we were hit on boxing day; snug, safe, and replete in our post christmas feast torpor. our guilt kicked in big time as we sat in front of the boxing day test or watched the sydney to hobart, and we as a nation sent the signals. howard expressed, for once, what we all wanted to say. damn pity we cant get him to see that we want other signals sent, too. I'm not suggesting we should make it open slather, but how hard can it be for us to not find a position for refugees? why cant we give them shelter, employ them at basic rates for a year or two in 'nation building' eg pipeline construction etc, help with language skills and keep them in good health, and then give them permanent residency after they've put in the hard yakka? at least they'd have demonstrated that they want to be one of us and have done something to contribute, which is more than many of us do who're born here. I wonder if any of us could cope with what these people have to live through....I'd lash out against such perceived injustice. hard. mandatory detention without limits just has to stop. send a message that if you're illegal, then you IMMEDIATELY go back where you came from. if you're genuine, then we'll put you to work. hard work, but honest work. earning your piece of paper.

omygodnoitsitsitsyou - pointless rant - shame you could not bother to break it up into paragraphs - I might bother to read it if you did.

As I said - compassion is a uniquely human quality difficult, except possibly for exercise of direct ministerial discretion (and all the hum-hums that raises), for any bureauracy to dispense/ administer - because it relies on treating people as individuals and not as "objects" within an anonymous mass of similar objects

Many of the people in detention stay for a long period of time because of ongoing legal action and appeal after appeal after appeal.

As for refugees, we do accept them, it is the ones who are not genuine who most likely to end up in Baxter or Villawood.

As for letting detainees out in the community to do work on pipelines etc - that would be absolutely fantastic, except then you would get another bunch of whingers complaining that we are exploiting the asylum seekers by making them do work they would not otherwise want to do.

t.u.s.

I am the author of this opinion piece. I am at a loss to understand what the points made in the last post have to do with my argument in this opinion piece. However, a brief reply on two points:

"Many of the people in detention stay for a long period of time because of ongoing legal action and appeal after appeal after appeal."

This "ongoing legal action and appeal after appeal after appeal" is quite often the Minister's own actions in appealing what she sees as adverse decisions. It is scandalous of the Minister (and her predecessor) to raise this objection in such circumstances.

"As for refugees, we do accept them, it is the ones who are not genuine who most likely to end up in Baxter or Villawood."

I am sure Corneila Rau and her family would be consoled by this.

Col easier to attack nogoditsitsitsyou than to reply to what he/she thinks. No paragraphs - oh! you pompous git Col. Anyhow if you did not read the piece then you should have just shut up.Regards, numbat

Getting back to the issue that Helen Pringle wrote (you do write good, gutsy articles by the way) and the fallout - this government is spicks and specks about how it falls on any issue depending on which way they think the wind is blowing. I just can't understand why the majority keep falling for it (i figure they'res no Liberal voters on this topic so far) comparisons to evil Nazi Germany, I feel this government is sowing the seeds (remember that started with a yellow star and rights being eroded before they really hooked into it) - we might not be talking about elimination but the way the govt goes about deportation could be seen to be just as heartless in this day and age. I am absolutely sickened and ashamed by the way this govt has operated (don't get me started on the GST for example) however, with the way they have treated refugees , both bureaucratically and humanely has left me appalled and disgusted. And that's just by what makes media (who knows what else goes on before it's brought to light) Both Ruddock and Vanstone (with Howard as the anchor) should be castaway in a leaky boat (and pay throught the nose for the privelige) and then tell us why they deserve to be detained. All this going on and we are worried about interest rates and the surplus? Shame!

Di: your posts are a bastion of commonsense and frequently save me from having to place a post of my own, thank you.

I guess economics was at the heart of the discrepancy between the humanity shown to the 104 Chinese woman and the pregnant refugee - that is; at 104 this woman is not going to be drain on our precious surplus and a pregnant woman would be a greater economic liability - of course we'll never really know just what contribution she or her child could've made to our nation - maybe her child could've grown into an honest politian for example. Now we'll never know.

To all those who have never lived in terror for their lives and continue to decry the rights of those who flee persecution, torture I suggest you think very carefully about how you would cope if your lives were threatened - the heartless comments from those such as Col rouge, and, strangely Boaz and others reveal a degree of racism.

To those who say there are good and bad in these refugees well, that applies to the entire human race. Perhaps we should all be placed in to detention until we've been proven 'good enough' for Australia.

Aw shucks Ringtail, thanks for the sentiment and ditto to you. Love your diatribes and would be horrified to get the sentiment you express from Timkins. Absolutely right in that all our "refugees" are not possibly model citizens (can't spell that one tonite!) but I don't think that is necessarily the criteria we should be demanding. I find it ironic that this govt is busting a gut to "import" skilled tradespeople from overseas when the detention centres are bursting at the seams with potential workers that have displayed skill, courage and fortitude to get here (all attributes that employers allegedly lurve) and most likely would love to be trained up here, (and let's face it previous govts before Howardism have thrown heaps of money into "skilling' Aust workforces to what avail). Sounds a bit too easy doesn't it. Meanwhile let's off shore jobs, cut back research and development, make off shore manufacturing more attractive and then bitch about how Aust has a deficit of skilled workers that we have to import. Go figure! Jobs we no longer have to offer to our own let alone "the furriners in detention centres that may or may not be pregnant or 9 year old Al Queda/whatever" This is precisely why I feel completely at ease comparing this Howard govt to Nazi Germany because this is the way it starts!