"we can do better in providing all children with opportunities to learn the skills that allow them to see that they have a choice."

There are opportunities Molly. All the people I talk about sat next to me in class and attended the same school, played at the same football club. Our opportunities were exactly the same as far as government services go.

ATSIC and welfare depenency is not the answer.You only have to look at the gross corruption in land councils to see they are not doing what they are supposed to. They have not solved anything.

Neither will an apology.
Positive role models may though, which I try to be - visiting my former primary and high school regularly to chat with the kids
or coaching junior footy teams where I get a chance to hopefully have a positive influence on both indigenous and non-indigenous kids.

You are the one who is treating indigenous people differently, not me, which is the definition of racism.

Thanks Col for understanding the perspective I am trying to put forward. You treat people on merit not on the colour of their skin. Too many people are wound up in identity politics judging people by race, ethnicity, sexuality or gender when we should treat people based on what they do and achieve.

That is what this country is based on and why our human rights record stacks up well against every other country in the world.

t.u.s

Tus I too came from the wrong side of the tracks – many years ago. If the Labour government in the 70’s had not made it possible for poor people to go to uni, I would not have had that experience.

But more important than that, if I had not had help from government agencies (ie counselling and welfare for many years), I would not have done well when I got there.

Others from my street did okay but it took many years of living in drug induced squalor before I was lucky enough to learn that I not stupid and useless (as I was told in the privacy of my home over and over again) and could be part of the world.

You cannot know about the damage that is done to children in the privacy of the home and how that affects the rest of the way they react to the world.

I do treat some Indigenous people differently. Many of the people I worked with are different. They are like I used to be, only more so – more damaged for any number of reasons that have to do with the racism and the other extra problems that come from being an Indigenous person.

It is terriffic that you provide a role models for the kids. That is what is needed but they also need more opportunities to learn and develop skills like organising, like planning ahead – really simple things that are so important to fit in to this society.

It is simple to say lets treat people based on what they do and achieve. But think about what women had achieved in the areas of maths and science 50 years ago. Bugger all compared to men, but it wasn’t because they weren’t capable of more.

I am not advocating more welfare dependency. Why would you assume that? And I agree that our human rights record does stack up well. But that it could be better.

You have bettered yourself using the available resources. My point exactly.

t.u.s

tus you must be deliberately misunderstanding my argument for your own reasons. Whatever, if you can't take advantage of this opportunity to increase your understanding of the world you live in, I guess that is your perogative.

Col the assumptions you make about what I am espousing (nanny-politics indeed!) is patronising and indicative of an ideological unthinking prejudiced approach to the issue. For example ‘simplistic demands that one is allowed to rise or fall by their own efforts’. This indicates that you misunderstand what I am asking for (not demanding at all) because of your ideological blinkers.

You need to realise that the simplistic division between right and left politics, between individualism and socialism is over. Things are and always were more complex than that. But for sure the old bogey man of the communists and the yellow peril, should no longer scare you. Please note that not only socialists believe that things and people can be improved.

I want every child to have the basic physical, emotional and intellectual health that will allow them to compete and achieve excellence. Whether you want to see achievement as the ability to manipulate the environment or prefer to use words that suits your world view is irrelevant to the issue but it does indicate that it is your emotions that drive your response – not your intelligence.

If the people living in squalor were able to articulate what they wanted they would be able to go about getting it.

And Col, if I have an immaculate house with a pile of stinking rubbish in the middle of the kitchen floor, it is still true that I have a problem, even if my neighbour who lives with stinking rubbish everywhere, is the one who points it out.

I still don’t get what you mean by worlds best practice. Speaking from a commonsense approach, if there is a group of people in our society who are so badly off in terms of all indicators, health, economic etc, anyone should be able to see that we have a problem.

"I want every child to have the basic physical, emotional and intellectual health that will allow them to compete and achieve excellence"

And no Australian child will ive in poverty by 1990.

Don't take the moral highground by espousing you have the interests of children at heart and people like Col do not.

I cannot see where anyone has said they want to be detrimental children.

regards your life on the wrong side of the tracks and living in a drug induced squallor - how is this the government's fault. Unless you were forced to use drugs, both your life of drugs and the steps you took to escape were your choices. I don't advocate getting rid of counselling services if people need them, never have said that.

You seem to think that government intervention and apologies are the best way and I think that encouraging people to take responsibility to improve their lot is the best way.

and I still maintain that the government, through public education, health and minimum welfare programs does provide basic building blocks for everyone. I do not know of any aboriginals who have been turned away from a school or hospital based on race. It is how these services are utilised by individuals and families which determines outcomes in life.
Not everyone will end up millionaires but there are adequate opportunities for people to live at a decent standard.

t.u.s.

Mollydukes – what you deem as patronising is entirely up to you.

However, to correct what you wrote –
I agree, - “Socialism” is into decline and might well be over but
I disagree - “Individualism” is doing better than ever.

“I want every child to have the basic physical, emotional and intellectual health”

That is best achieved by parents exercising the special, particular and individual love they have for their own children, not some substitute sponsored by the state and enshrined in platitudes and motherhood statements (Like the one of yours above).

“if there is a group of people in our society who are so badly off in terms of all indicators, health, economic etc, anyone should be able to see that we have a problem.”

WE do not have a problem. A group may have a problem and they also have a responsibility to and for themselves.

The rest of us are responsible only to make the fabric of the “commonwealth” sufficiently generous to allow all those capable of improving their circumstances aware that it is within them to do so, not to underpin a supply of endless indulgences, featherbeding a cargo-cult mentality.

The following is an edited definition of WBP from

http://www.safetyline.wa.gov.au/pagebin/bestgenl0001.htm
World best practice is a process by which “organizations”
• continuously reflect on their practices and how they impact on conditions and outcomes;
• look and learn from, what other, better performing organizations are doing - irrespective of the activity in which those better performers are located; and
• adapt the practices of others and continuously improve their practices and outcomes with the objective of being the best

TUS
“…there are adequate opportunities for people to live at a decent standard”
Exactly – the opportunity is there – as they say “you can take a horse to water but not make it drink”.

TUS your earlier “thanks” is appreciated but reading your expressions as a “like mind” is worth more than any thanks.
“Individual Merit” is the only basis by which we "collectively" advance.