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The Forum > Article Comments > Iraq - Kim Beazley picks at his issues > Comments

Iraq - Kim Beazley picks at his issues : Comments

By Graham Young, published 14/3/2005

Graham Young argues that Kim Beazley has left the 'more troops to Iraq' issue alone with good reason

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As Author of INSPECTOR-RIKATI® & There is no Government to go to war
A book on CD About Legal Issues Confronting Australia
I did set out that without a declaration of war published by the Governor-General there was no constitutional validity to commit us into a murderous invasion in another country.
Once we disregard our constitutional constrains we hardly then can pursue our own constitutional rights.
Our American Common Law "We the People are the rightful
master of both congress and the courts - not to overthrow the
Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
Abraham Lincoln http://www.constitution.org
This applies as much to the Commonwealth of Australia, as to the USA!

“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
Benjamin Franklin

We all may disagree with how our neigbours may conduct their private affairs within their homes, but that hardly gives us the right to break down their doors and wreck their place and impose our demands! We are bound to follow proper legal procedures.
Likewise, with what me may deplore on another nation, we need to follow proper legal ways, as not doing so earmark us for others to do so in return to us. It will be a mere matter of time.

Being it Kim Beazley or other Member of Parliament, they all lacked the stamina to stand up against the unconstitutional and illegal war pursued by John Howard.

Kim Beazley, as former Defense Minister, ought to have been well aware, apart of my correspondence to him personally, that the murderous invasion was unconstitutional, but then again, so was the first Gulf War by Australian troops!
Therefore, the silence may be to avoid exposure of their own wrongdoings in the past as wel
Posted by Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka, Monday, 14 March 2005 3:33:01 PM
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Graham Young is substantially right. No Australian PM can afford the luxury of rocking the alliance, he would be clearly aware of what happenned to the one PM who dared. He was sacked out of office. Any Australian PM must be aware of his position of Regional Manager for Uncle Sam, or as President G. W. Bush so clearly
put it: "Deputy Sherriff".

So, being supine is the only path.Mr. Young's reference to "UN Action" or "Defence of the Japanese" is so much smoke and mirrors,both of those must be pacifiers - dummies to stuff into the mouths of any critic, a superficial sanitisation of an ugly, undeclared war.
Posted by julian Kral, Monday, 14 March 2005 5:31:06 PM
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A few points...

- Beazley lost Labor a distinct advantage when he endorsed the sending of troops in late 2003 (?). The Libs must have laughed with glee!

- Latham (remember him?) might have grabbed a lot of votes if he had said "Australian troops cannot pull out of Iraq now but if we are elected we will move them from the coalition of invaders to working solely under the United Nations". This would have turned our position for being dubious invaders to those genuinely rebuilding the country.

- A number of other countries have provided UN troops and later withdrawn them. Joining the UN forces would have given us credibility as well as the same opportunity to withdraw after a decent interval had elapsed.

Missed opportunities for Labor, caused by Beazley's big mouth !

By the way, where's Howard's legal opinion for invading another country? Blair is now in deep trouble over his one-page opinion from a close friend so why haven't Australian papers investigated Howard's?

cheers
Posted by Snowman, Monday, 14 March 2005 10:54:48 PM
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Beazley went along with Operation Desert Fox, in the same contex of the current Iraqi War, this action was unilateral & proceed WITHOUT UN security council approval.
The Difference, there was a Democrat in the White House, his name was Clinton.
That's the only difference. How an action is perceived is all about which side of politics occupies the White House. Bob Brown supported Operation Desert Fox. Any Lefties care to offer any reasoning?
Posted by Sayeret, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 7:56:43 AM
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Dear Graham,
wouldn't it be a refreshing change if people and politicians could talk, not about the rights and wrongs of war and illegal invasions, but about getting rid of all armies, the armaments industry, the stockpiles of WMDs, and how to achieve peace between nations.

Then I guess while ever capitalism, with its infinite greed and its army of rich robber barons, drives the world, and militaristic, christian fundamentalist countries like America see themselves as on a divine mission to control the world (for their benefit of course) and Muslims see non-believers as infidels, etc, world peace will never stand a chance.

What a sad place earth is.

Humans are the main problem.
Posted by Sinni Kal, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 9:18:06 AM
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I find discussion of my research interesting. It always seems to ascribe positions on the issue to me when I am merely reporting and analysing what others say. The purpose of this research is to reflect back to Australians what they are actually thinking in a way that can't be captured by conventional polling.

It is also to then use what skills I have as a political advisor to use the research to suggest arguments that the politicians might use. Again, the purpose of this is reflective - if you have an idea what a politician might say based on the research, then when they say it you have an insight into why they are saying it and you will be in a better position to judge its real worth.
Posted by GrahamY, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 1:09:47 PM
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Our current PM is a moral idiot for creating war in Iraq; he's becoming the dictator he disposed of (actually was it ever about that) and is highly disrespectful to Australians. Kim Beazley, unfortunately, is a bigger idiot; lacking the punch and intelligence to go in for the kill on Howards blatant (2nd) moral error of 450 troops. It's a repeat of Menzies' Vietnam (I really like Menzies, except for his war-mongering [Howard repeat]) ; the conservatives initiate war (they have always failed in this regard) and Labor pulls Australia out. If Beazley can play his cards right, he should do what Whitlam did, and then he will be Australia's next Prime Minister. Who wants to wager me? I'm also going to be brazen, like Menzies, and wager that I will be the first female Prime Minister of Australia!

Teresa van Lieshout
Author, Teacher, Political candidate
Posted by Teresa van Lieshout, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 8:12:47 PM
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Teresa,before you become PM,you'd better do some research.John Howard did not create any war in the Iraq.We have to be there because of our alliance with the US.The US might own much of our industry but they will still let us keep what we have struggled for.China with it's huge pop would be unstoppable if they decided to expand.A huge land mass with a small pop would be easy pickings.If you were lucky to be alive after invasion, you would have no personal assets.The major language would be Mandarin and we would not be a viable society.Remember Tiernamin Square?
Iraq and the Middle East is about security of oil supply not only for the US but the rest of the World.The Middle East has 65% of the world's oil.They have a responsibility to be fairer to their people and keep peace in their region.No one is stealing their oil.We just want reasonable market prices.Countries Like Japan will not be starved of fuel without taking drastic action such as war.
Forget about moralising,world politics is about power plays,things can change quickly,and we need to be ready.
Posted by Arjay, Wednesday, 16 March 2005 2:35:17 AM
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Arjay,

The US started the war in Iraq, Howard assisted that. That's starting a war, or at the very least contributing to it. We don't have to be there because of our alliance with the US. Australia has the capacity to make her own decisions, and Howard has neither the moral courage, integrity, or vision to be independent and make and develop Australia into a powerful independent nation. He is a weak leader because he fails to serve the interests of Australia by, for example, failing to promote, develop and support Australian business and companies, thus creating a 30 year high, $13.7 billion current account trade deficit. He's pathetic, and I can't wait to see the back of him.
Teresa van Lieshout
http://onenationwa.tripod.com/
Posted by Teresa van Lieshout, Thursday, 17 March 2005 8:09:56 PM
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Dear Teresa,
your comment gives me hope that there are a few free-thinking, perceptive, altruistic individuals left in this country. The rest are too busy pushing their noses deep into the trough or trying to survive the Howard regime.
Posted by Sinni Kal, Thursday, 17 March 2005 8:50:48 PM
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Teresa & Sinni,I hate to be too pesimistic but we sold out along time ago to maintain our security and standard of living.90% of our business is foreign owned.PAYE tax payers contribute $100 million pa and corporates pay $40 million pa.Australians pay 80 times the tax of that contributed by foreign companies.
The policy of reducing tarrifs and achieving was begun by the Hawke Govt.in the early 80's.The level playing field is dischevelled logic.
I never wanted to invade Iraq since I almost went to Vietnam and have two sons near the age of conscription.I can't stand George Bush but can understand the reasons for the mess the US find themselves in at the moment.Economically John Howard has improved this country immensely.He has spent more on social security than Labor could have achieved in their wildest dreams.This is indisputable.
Put your hate aside and analyse the cold hard reality.If Kim Beasley was in power,we would still be there.We cannot afford anarchy.The Middle East is far more important than Vietnam because of the oil.
Posted by Arjay, Saturday, 19 March 2005 10:01:42 PM
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I may be wrong but didn't the USA take away the World in 1945. Remember their EVIL occupation of Berlin & Tokyo & the sinister way in which the re-built Europe through the Marshall Plan, All a big -l Right Winged Zionist Conspiracy according to the Morally inept Left.

Who could do a better job then America?
France, China, India, The UN [See Rwanda].
Critics of the USA GET REAL, PUT UP OR SHUT UP.
Posted by Sayeret, Monday, 21 March 2005 1:32:09 PM
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BTW Teresa & Sinni K,

Are you aware that the Islamic Republic of Iran declared War on the USA in 1978, AND have been in a state of war ever since.

How does this hold up to you're whacko comments? When the Islamofacists stormed the US embassy in 1978 the US didn't respond with guns & bombs.
The lesson learnt by the Arab World was that the US was weak & wouldn't respond.
I beleive the message has know changed.
Posted by Sayeret, Wednesday, 23 March 2005 12:16:31 PM
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You are all missing my point. Love, compassion, understanding, forgiveness, not war. I am sick of the talk fo war. People use the wrong words and actions to try to create what they want. You men want to fight to get what you want. Well fighting is killing, and it's morally wriong. You have to use intelligence, dialogue, acts of compassion, promotion of peace, goodwill, building better relationships, reconciliation, talk of hope, friendship, mutual agreement and obligation, trade arrangements. I'm sick of war; it's a pathetic, easy and nasty way of getting what you want. It lacks creativity and destroys people and communities.
Posted by Teresa van Lieshout, Tuesday, 29 March 2005 6:16:53 PM
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Teresa,welcome to the real world of both family and international conflict.In the real world of survival ,there will always be conflict,and luckily for you, you have lived a charmed existence until this point in time;until your god takes away the necessity for survival,conflict will always exist.
Posted by Arjay, Friday, 1 April 2005 11:12:27 PM
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Dear Teresa,
it's called the Neanderthal syndrome. Removing the testicles has been know to cure it.
It really is a tragedy that people (well, men) believe that conflict is inevitable. It's a view strongly encouraged by those who make and sell the weapons and those who see war as a legitimate means to an end (people like Howard and Bush).
Posted by Sinni Kal, Saturday, 2 April 2005 8:37:32 PM
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Thanks guys for your good words,

Let's all try some more effective, creative, less violent ways of developing better international relationships.

Teresa
Posted by Teresa van Lieshout, Saturday, 9 April 2005 3:15:24 PM
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...except, NO NEED to remove anyone's testicles??
Posted by Teresa van Lieshout, Saturday, 9 April 2005 3:17:00 PM
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The truth is that America has had enough. Please follow this link:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/081505Z.shtml
Posted by Ngungun, Tuesday, 16 August 2005 10:24:11 AM
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I wonder how many politicans children are fighting in Iraq, probably zilch, but it's ok for these politicans to commit our troops to civil war and contamination from the weapons that the arms industry thrives on.
Posted by kensho, Friday, 9 February 2007 10:32:43 PM
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