Ringtail, interestingly enough the lesbian age of consent hasn't been discussed. Barnett's retrograde policy only related to the gay male age of consent. And the likes of Aslan never seem to consider lesbians in their world view. But then, homophobia has always been related to appalling attitudes towards women. Just look at countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia - gays and women both cop the sharp end of the sword.

DavidJS - lesbianism is frequently a favourite het male fantasy - I guess many men do not feel so threatened by female homosexuality. However, I believe that both sexes require some sort of legal protection and while 16 is too young for some I guess there has to be some sort of legal line drawn - yet I also believe that every case should be considered on its own merits. I have thought back to my wild and youthful days and realise that a partner or 2 of mine could have been guilty of incest - its all very subjective.

I'd just like to add a note of appreciation to DavidJS, both for his article and for his posts to these forums - which are often veritable fonts of reason in these very dry arguments. He is correct that humour and irony are lost on the godbotherers, homophobes and misogynists.

I have come to the conclusion that some of the most prolific posters to these forums are very sad people who project their obsessions onto others in cyberspace for whatever reason - perhaps to seek affirmation in being noticed for a change?

Love your work, DavidJS.

Morgan :D

Please note a correction to the first point in my previous post - I meant to write: "You can choose to lie, conceal or behave in a manner that pleases others, but that does NOT change your true sexual orientation."

I agree that there's a world of difference between same-sex attraction and same-sex sexual activity. HIV/AIDS and Sexual Health Services face a particular challenge in reaching and educating "Men who have sex with men" (MSM's)- all those men who would never identify as gay or bisexual and therefore will never read any gay press. MSM's may also be in committed, loving opposite sex relationships and the reason they do sex with men may not be primarily about attraction (e.g. it could just be the desire to quickly. satisfyingly and anonymously get their rocks off with another person).

DavidJS rightly points out that being a woman is in itself a major risk factor for HIV/AIDS, especially in countries where condom use is religiously or culturally suppressed.

Without getting into an orgy of mutual backslapping, I'd like to thank those heterosexual supporters of legal recognition for same-sex relationships. After all, it's not a zero-sum game. Same-sex marriage in the Netherlands, Belgium or wherever has not lead to the diminution of traditional marriage. It just means gay men and lesbians in those countries now have security insofar as their relationships are fully supported by legislation.

Opponents of same-sex marriage love to talk of "marriage" as this abstract and almost unearthly concept but rarely want to discuss actual marriages. Why? Because real marriages are less affected by gay rights and much more affected by economic upheaval, downsizing, health problems and poverty. But of course the Howard Government and their supporters don't like to consider those things (because they're partly to blame) and prefer to divert attention towards gay rights.

Some people add two and two together to get five. What makes you think all critics of homosexuality are christian? I've got a bible that a 'christian' bought for me, except it is gathering dust. I read the first two pages and got bored. I am not a christian.

Back to the topic, Colin Barnett should of copied the tact of Gary Singer (Melbourne Deputy Lord Mayor)- and not tell the public about his anti-gay policies. Gary Singer did'nt tell anyone he wanted a 'gay' Melbourne, untill after he was elected.

I personally think homosexuals are very sad, Morgan. Just up the road from where I live, is a public toilet. This public toilet is opposite a primary school. Men from all around Melbourne converge on this public toilet, for gay sex. I found out through a seven year old, who was obviously frightened with what he saw, and I lodged a complaint. There was a public outcry (well locally). There is now security, and loiterers will be charged. So, I am making a difference to this world, however small.

Gays should be more responsible.