If God doesn't exist, then clearly there is nothing to fear from something non-existent. If he does exist, then I somehow doubt his views, reactions, opinions and preferences would be concluded or determined by our beliefs. What people believe about me doesn't necessarily determine what I am, so too what people believe about God doesn't necessarily determine who he is. What if God exists and what if he disagrees (like we all do here!)?

Arjay. I'd be happy to judge God - I'm just not quite sure of the criteria. It can't be on the basis of death, given that comes to us all. It can't be death of others for the same reason. And I don't think it can be happiness, as that feels as though it is something I am responsible for. I can relate to confusion, but again I can't bring myself to believe that is unreasonable. We are frustrated because we have missed something ....

Good point Normski.. here is a story

In my early years, I was taught at the feet of Gamaliel, he was the foremost teacher of the time. I learnt about the Law, and how it should guide all of our lives. I became passionate about it, far exceeding my peers. I guess u could say I was 'magna cum laude' of my profession. Then.. I noticed some irritating people, they had ideas which were a direct threat to all that I stood for. I decided that I would DO something about them, and with the full support of the Government, I began to hunt them down, I was merciless, I watched as some of them were beaten to death, without the slightest sense of compassion. I felt nothing, except the sweet peace of 'another one bites the dust' in those days we didnt have gas chambers or highly efficient crematoriums, but they would have been a great help in ridding our beautiful society of this defiling scourge. Who do these people think they are ?????? How DARE they threaten our foundations and social structure. I was so passionate about this, they made me the 'Reinhard Heidrich' of the day.. implementer of the 'final solution'...and I gave my all to this noble goal.

But one day.. as I was heading to a major population centre, with orders to arrest and eliminate groups of these sub humans, a great light shone, blinding me and I heard a voice, "Saul..Saul.. why are u persecuting me"........

BOAZ

Dear Arjay, Kenny and Co,

you are very quick to come up with opinions and knocking the idea of a god! I pointed out to you in other posts that your beliefs show mind-blowingly blind faith contrary to known experimental science and are thus illogical. I challenged you to come up with facts and logic to support your ridiculous religious (faith-based) mythology that there is no god.

The response? Nil. Cat got your tongue? Surely you can give a logical facts based answer? Maybe you can't!

Sorry Kenny,

I missed your posting, elsewhere, which vaguely responded to my post. But it does NOT answer my challenge. So I'll spell it out again.

You seem to think that your atheistic opinions are right and that religious opinions are stupid because they need faith.

But both atheism and religion require faith. My challemge to you is to face up to the facts - admit that maybe your beliefs are based on faith more than on facts and logic. Now you can believe whatever you want, but I think you need to consider whether your belief is based on fact and logic or not. You did not respond to these issues -so I'll push a bit more rather than leave you lost.

I think I can argue sucessfully that atheism and atheistic evolution are logically more ridiculous than creationism. Yes I am a Christian and I do believe in creation by the LORD Jesus Christ - but if I am wrong in fact and logic below then it should be easy for you to demonstrate that.

One of the most fundamental laws of experimental science is conservation of matter and energy. Logically then, we must conclude that the universe is eternal. But another fundamental law of science is the increase of entropy (disorder) and inevitable heat death of the universe. Logically then, since we exist, the universe had a beginning. So those logical conclusions from science contradict each other. The known facts give a clue that the cosmos must have originated by other rules out there which we don't understand. I say that God did it - and that is at least logically compatible with the law of cause and effect. Others just say that as yet unknown laws did it. Currently the big-bang says nothing turned into everything for no reason against the known laws of science - that's impressive faith.

But what about life? No experiment has shown that life comes from dead stuff - it comes from pre-existing life. Now the simplest known life is incredibly complex and has all the cell-machinery with the cell programming in computer-coding-like programming in the DNA. Creationists have faith that a god created life - which is logically compatible with cause and effect and the experimental fact that life only comes from life and that information only comes from pre-existing intelligence.

Atheistic evolution must believe that somehow dead stuff collected the information programme and the machinery to run it and (miraculously?) became a living cell. Whatever the mythological evolutionary story used to 'explain' life, one needs massive faith to believe it. Given simple life, somehow, what next? Nothing! because evolution has NO demonstarted mechanism necessary to get the NEW information necessary to go from klunge to Kenny via who-knows-what. Not a single mutation has been observed to add the sort of info that turns Kludge into Kangaroos, or chimps into Kennys. All known 'beneficial' mutations involve a LOSS of function. Then natural selection, which really works in forming genetic subsets for new species, ONLY culls information - it does NOT create new info. So evolution is actuall proven to have all the mechanisms and characteristics of devolution towards extinction. Which is what the fossil record shows!

You are free to have faith in evolution if you like that sort of argument. But don't try and claim that you are on high ground of logic and fact. In my opinion I have demonstrated that such beliefs are contrary to logic and fact and rely on ignorance or blind faith.

So please stop and have good think. The evidence of this world arguably point to there being a god. The Bible says that there is one God who sends the rain and the tsunamis on us all and our lives will end at some stage and then we face the real judgement. This life is just a trial run. God bless your search!

Well said Percy :) God willing, if we keep it up, our unbelieving friends will finally wake up one day and say "Opps.. it IS just a myth"
It's just been a process of gradual socialization that has shaped the minds of post moderns, and they dont even have the capability (or the will )of tracing the progression of ideas and philosophies thru the arts and media that socialized them to the point where they will identify the specific individual who has, by his/her forceful expression of ideas, made them a victim of his/her deliberate and willful ignorance and rejection of the Almighty. (e.g Neitzche, Sartre,Jaques Derrida)

They fail to recognize their true enemy, and instead cry out that such thinking is their 'own' and not related to how they have been shaped and moulded.

Painful but true :)

PEACE
BOAZ