Seeker, Timithy and Cranky - I have read your responses to several other articles in OLO but I find your comments here rather surprising. The article concerns an on-going dialogue regarding second and third wave feminism and was clearly framed to be of interest to those who are interested/concerned with that particular discourse. Judging by your responses you weren't impelled to comment regarding this article at all but rather by your dislike of an existing societal construct. Unfortunately, to judge also by your comments, you are unfamiliar with this particular societal construct as well. Simply from reading your responses your ideas seem to have been formed at second hand i.e. not from reading books and literature written by people from within this particular construct - feminism - but from reading other peoples views of such persons views. Perhaps if you could read up a little, or even talk to those from within the movement you might be able to set your minds at rest a little concerning its aims and also cease to argue from a point which seems to translate as ignorance of this particular subject. Timithy, I should also appreciate it if you would give me the provenance of the quotes you provide (the particular publication and page number from which you gleaned them). I do not remember Ms. French having made the rapist comment but perhaps it - like the Steinam quote - was taken out of context? ANKH

Ankh, you are right to some extent that my opinions have been formed by second-hand discourse, but that is the case with most people. I am more interested in personally observing the impacts on society and its various “constructs” now, than reading some old first-hand thesis that continues to be debunked by each subsequent wave of feminism.

It is interesting to think of these waves in the current context of the tsunami devastation.

Here’s an example of fresh new third wave discourse for you. Are men supposed to be any more comfortable with this more recent feminist thought? In your view, how much study is necessary to obtain the right to object?

http://smh.com.au/news/Opinion/Men-in-trouble-now-that-even-their-sperm-isnt-necessary/2005/01/18/1105810914296.html

Ankh
I am fully aware that there are a number of waves of feminism, and also different versions of feminism within any one wave. I am also fully aware that Germaine Greer is an attention seeker who has taken so many U-turns in her thinking and general philosophies, that there is now very little in her thinking and general philosophies that can be relied upon. I am also fully aware that not all of feminism is benign by any means, and within any book that objectively analyses feminism, you will likely find the most alarming quotes from prominent feminists, many of whom, (including Germaine Greer), have called themselves Marxist. Other people have identified significant similarities between feminism and Nazism.

I could have sourced my quotes from innumerable sources, but for ease of copying and pasting into the comments section I copied quotes them from a web-site at http://www.nodnc.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=2

You may also find feminist quotes from http://en.thinkexist.com/quotes/top/

However Cathrine Lumby has stated that feminists of “all persuasions” should become such things as Prime Ministers, as if any feminist is a good feminist. There may be some good or decent feminists within our present society, but there are a lot that aren’t, and the longer I live the more I learn that a person’s overall worth cannot be related to their gender.

As one example only, within the list of my quotes there is a very recent quote by a Louise Crossen being “The key to enjoying a woman's twilight years is simple: ditch your bloke.”

The history behind this quote says a lot about how gender issues are being handled within this country, by Social Science and by the press. I have also noted no objections by any person such as Cathy Lumby who has in the past declared herself as being a feminist.

There was a study carried out by 4 social science researchers from 2 QLD universities into the health and well being of elderly people. The study tried to relate their general health and well being to their martial status. Why not try to also relate it to income, previous work experience etc. Who knows, but the study did not sample elderly people living in aged care homes, many of whom would not be be healthy enough to care or provide for themselves.

The study was called “Marriage dissolution and health amongst the elderly: the role of social and economic resources“ but it should have been more accurately called "Marriage dissolution and health amongst the elderly who do not live in aged care homes : the role of social and economic resources”

The results of this study were reported in two newspapers to my knowledge, being the Courier Mail at ( C:\temp\New Folder\The Courier-Mail Enjoy life Get rid of your man [11jan05].mht ) and the Sydney Morning Herald at ( http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Women-live-longer-if-they-throw-away-the-ring/2005/01/09/1105205981068.html )

The way this study was reported in the press is highly objectionable. In her recent article about the study, the journalist Louise Crossen wrote “The key to enjoying a woman's twilight years is simple: ditch your bloke.” The journalist Adele Horin wrote “If women are looking for the key to long-lasting health, they should consider getting rid of their man.”

The comments by these journalists are highly objectional. They identify husbands as being some type of health risk and they also contain connatations of encourageing women to either divorce or murder their husbands. Their comments are all the more objectional because they are based on biased social science research, and overlook other factors such as the average age of women is now 83.27 years, while the average age for a male is 77.4. From memory the average age of retirement for a woman has been estimated at 47 while the average age of retirement for a male is 58.

Having read the study and having read the articles in the two newspapers, then from the list of technique mentioned earlier in a comment, I would at least identify list item numbers 1, 3, 5, 6 , 8 and 17 as being used.

This is why I have become highly scepticle of most, (but not all), of social science research and highly scepticle of feminism.

I do not see the necessity for any special previladges to be awarded to someone simply becasuse they decide to call themselves a “feminist”, and I would not like to see just “any” feminist being on TV, being a prime minister, or being in the media

Ankh, maybe the words I type on my keyboard transmogrify on their way through cyber-space. Nothing I said in my initial comment would suggest any dislike of a particular "societal construct". I didn't even say anything bad about Germaine!

You're right about one thing though. My interest in the ins & outs of second and third wave feminism is pretty tiny. I appreciate feminism to the extent that my daughters have many more options open to them now then ever before. Feminism debates have never included men and I've found that the only men who try to get involved are pathetically sycophantic - standing up on stages and proudly declaring themselves "feminists"! How embarrassing!

Ankh, my comment was on Germaine Greer, not feminism. But it's probably a good thing that ignoramuses put in their 2 cents worth, if every comment was along the same lines as Ankh's everyone's head would explode.

Cranky,
I think that you should take a long hard look at "feminism", its history, its principle players, its claims, and the often hidden negative side.

I think that you should also ask yourself how many of these so called "choices" have actually been brought about by feminism, or by things such as gradgual increases in national wealth, and breakthroughs in technology and medical science.

I also think that you can decide how many of these so called "choices" are also available to males, or will males in the future be regarded as second class citizens, because of a process of indoctrination that often uses biased social science research and generalisations. (EG "Women live longer if they throw away the ring"
By Adele Horin, SMH, January 10, 2005)

People’s heads are already exploding even without the benefit of Ankhs scholarly arguments.

Those unfortunate enough to have lost children to this tsunami, no longer wish to live by the beach, want to know all about the dangers of such phenomena, and cannot help but warn the tourists.

Cranky, fortunately for you, you don’t have to consider your sons’ options under such circumstances.