It's all fluff and stuff in the end fed gov's loose when intereset rates/inflation hurts Joe average credit line. Joe average put's about as much thought into the vote as they picking socks.

Looks like Labor may be saved eventually by former Country Party voters, many who have had a gutfull of country reps who because they are so conned by little Johnny may as well call themselves Libs. The lack of interest was seen as proof, even though it was known at the time, and has proven since that the bi-lateral deal would be no good for the average farmer, whether he or she be dairy farmers, fruitgrowers, woolgrowers, or graingrowers, especially wheat. Now that wheat has fallen so much in price, mostly caused by US and the EU governments monetarily protecting their growers and dumping the cheap subsidised grain on susceptible world markets. Wine producers in Western Australia are also in bad trouble through overseas dumping.

The truth is that farmers historically or economically, were never known as businessmen but part of the perfect economy,
sounding ridiculous but actually meaning a group that is better working together under what is known in France as agrarian socialism.

During the 1930's Great Depression, Australian farmers were saved not by the United Australia Party, the main conservative party at the time, but by Prime Minister Pollard of the ALP, bringing in stabilisation and a guaranteed price.

It is interesting that Pollard apparently did not expect grain farmers to be loyal to Labor, either, which means that farmers as a group would be better to sometimes play the field than to stick with a party who seem to believe right now that farmers even in a socialistic production group must always vote conservative. Look out you phony Liberals, the move could be already well on the way.

Bushbred - WA

Before I became an accidental immigrant in 1979, I had been a long-term supporter of the UK Labour party, although I sometimes despaired at their tendency to focus on the issues of the past rather than those of the present. In Australia, I became an ALP supporter. The first Ministers I met were at the inaugaral meeting of the Hawke Government's Ministerial working group on longer-term economic growth. I was very impressed by the ministers, Button (chair), Dawkins, Evans, Kerin and Willis. They were genuinely interested in what was best for Australians at large - not for ALP supporters, not for unionists, but for the whole community; and they wanted to hear from their eminent economic advisors their views as to "best" policy, unconstrained by existing ALP or ACTU policy. This was very impressive, and the reforms flowing from the Hawke governemnt have, in general, had very positive effects (while, as noted above, helping over the longer term to erode the ALP's traditional voting base).

I also had meetings with several other ministers, including several meetings over a number of years with Hawke and Keating. In my view Labor's success under Hawke was largely because of the focus on "good" policy, abetted by Hawke's skills in selecting and delegating to talented and well-intentioned ministers and in seeking consensus. Keating, in my view, was unfit to be Prime Minister because of his arrogance and other failings. To me, the ALP's decline at the federal level began with Keating's first challenge - the quality of policy-making declined thereafter. Keating was obsessed with becoming PM, but when he got there seemed not to know what to do. And, unlike Hawke, he did not make best use of his able ministers. Keating's stealing of the 1993 election was very damaging for the party and the country, and the ALP has not yet recovered. I could not aupport a party led by Keating, and have seen no reason to return to the party since 1996. (MF)

dear bushbred,

Looks like you have come up with some new information, as I have never heard of Prime Minister Pollard. Sure you've got the right country? At the start of the depression we had briefly a Labor Prime Minister called Scullin, who was deposed by Jack Lang's supporters in 1932, and then we had Joe Lyons of the UAP for the rest of the thirties. Nary a mention of a Prime Minister Pollard. Any sort of opinions are OK, but let's try and keep the facts straight.

Read Robert Mann's new book " Do Not Disturb: Is the Media Failing Australia? and you get a sense of the crisis in our liberal democracy.

For me this book points out what Glover and others fail to comprehend
as the 'problem' with both the Coalition and the Labor party -- and its much more important than who wins government.

The other reading I would recommend is John Raulston Saul’s essay
"The end of globalism" where he charts the demise of another grand theory (Globalism) and a rebirth of nationalism.
• http://www.afr.com/articles/2004/02/19/1077072774981.html

Labor is not only faced with the task of rediscovering itself, it must simultaneously redefine itself as 'part of' a new emerging national identity. The days whereby one could simply trot out the usual symbols and poltical trinkets of converntional nationalism are over.

Could predict that what could destroy the Liberal Party, as it is, could be its foreign policy ties with the present White House establishment. GW Bush is considered by some critics as now on the edge in Iraq, talking about having to let the Shias have their way, yet at the same time talking about attacking Shi-ite Iran. It is here our Australian PM is so loyal or rather so weak that it is never mentioned by the media that he has argued or had cross words with the US President about American foreign policy.

This is what happened to Menzies when the Japs came into the war, when John Curtin was elected because Menzies was too much sucking up to Britain, the Home Country.

We need the US, but as an equal, not to have a PM, of whom Mark Latham described very truthfully, but failed in his choice of words.

We also have a PM right now who has got us enmeshed in a trade agreement mostly to please our corporates, and which right now has allowed quarantine standards to be lowerered on "foot and mouth" allowing possibly infected Brazilian carcase meat to be dumped in Queensland. An enquiry why such has not been broacast or published by our media, proved of no avail, and suspiciously seems as if the truthful but very dangerous "foot and mouth" report has been muzzled by the media by orders of our PM.

All such events if proven true can lead to impeachment as could be similar with George W Bush, who is proving so much similar to Richard Nixon, it is too serious to be amusing.