There are those that have been willing to give their lives for good governance. This is also probably a pre-condition of a stable civilization.

Happy New Year mhaze,
I knew you wouldn't be able help yourself.
We've had these discussions before about when and how Venezuelas problems stated.

I watched this video a few days back prior to my earlier post.
It's a CIA intelligence analyst stating that Carlos Andrés Pérez the President of Venezuela prior to Hugo Chavez was himself a CIA asset.
Or U.S. puppet ruler...
So that kind of throws a spanner into your timelines.

http://www.youtube.com/live/2qAjwVPPVpI?t=120

"Venezuela is a nightmare country for its people. At least 25% of the people have fled in the past decade due to oppression, murder, hunger and lack of freedom. In the election two years ago they voted overwhelmingly to remove the kleptocrats running the country and replace them with true Venezuelan patriots and democrats. Alas, that was overturned at the point of a gun. Now they have a chance for freedom and prosperity which is why we see them out on the streets all over the world, celebrating. One video I saw this morning talked of how young Venezuelan girls, imprisoned on who knows what pretext, prostituting themselves in prison in return for some bread scraps."

Stop telling me the story for the public consumption please.
You just make yourself look ignorant and clueless.
Why don't you just acknowledge the truth so we can move forward?
http://www.youtube.com/live/C-eZ6trOmcg?t=1610

I know what the sanctions game is ok, it's collective punishment and economic coercion. They punish the whole entire country so they rise up against the leader and get the blame from people, but its not their fault. Then the West dangles the idea of lifting sanctions, which sows division, but the truth is there's no negotiating, the West wants you gone. Once they create that division in a climate where the nations poor, all the CIA has to do is show up with a plane load of cash and hand out U.S. citizenship, the other side of that offer, if you don't go along with it what will we do to your family?
Offer they can't refuse and the government falls.

The poor little Trumpster, his comprehension skills and understanding is pathetic.

I said; "The wealth of the worlds mega rich capitalist increased by billions yesterday when the stock value of their shares in American oil companies increased by 4%."

What does the Trumpster come back with; "The Chinese are heavily invested in the US stock-market. So they also profited from the increase in the DOW overnight." (which only reflected the increase in the share value of big American oil companies.)

I said nothing about the DOW. I was referring to American oil companies. Lets take the number one American oil company in Venezuela, CHEVRON, its stock value increased by 5% overnight, or about $17US Billion. Now, are the Chinese major shareholders in CHEVRON, no no they are not, in fact I don't believe any Chinese nationals have any major shareholdings in big American oil companies what so ever.

Trumpster please try to keep up! BTW provide evidence that Chinese nationals, "are heavily invested in the US stock-market." Otherwise you are exposed as a liar once again, just another one of your porkies!

"First, you've redefined "democracy" mid-discussion. "

Do you hear yourself? Redefined? Do you seriously believe this rubbish.

"The historical examples you list don't resolve this"

Yes, you're right. I can't find a single example that exactly matches the Maduro situation and therefore, to the monumentally unimaginative, we can't make any predictions. "You've always struggled with the concept of informed extrapolation."

The notion that we can't be certain that removing a tyrant won't make things worse for a time, has been used for a century to deter action to free peoples yearning for it.
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Paul will be thrilled to learn that the Venezuelan stock market rose by over 60% since the arrest of Maduro. But based on his last post he seems to struggle with what the stock market represents.

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For the clueless who still think this is about oil, this from the inestimable Tim Worstall (one of the heroes of the fight against climate hysteria) ... http://tiny.cc/rgax001

"The United States has, domestically and in law, limited the amount of Venezuelan oil that US citizens or companies may buy. So the US doesn’t need to invade Venezuela - or kidnap/arrest the President and his wife - in order to be able to buy Venezuelan oil. It can just change domestic law and allow US citizens and companies to buy Venezuelan oil."

"For those who say this is all like Iraq and so on, all about that stealing the oil. Have you noted that US individuals and companies pay the market price for Iraqi oil? Same price as everyone else? No? Then perhaps you should think about that."

AC,

I get that you've found some bozo on the YouTube to tell you what you want to hear. An hour long 'report' this time. They'll be thrilled that you watched since they get paid by YouTube by the minute watched and you're lining their pockets. And since they made money by spinning this yarn which is, face it, based on pure fiction, they'll spin you another yarn which you'll watch to pay them more money.

You've been making this same error for years. And every time you refer to someone who posts verifiable data, it turns out to be wrong.... remember the rubbish about Ukraine banning Russian?; remember the rubbish about the survey that, you were told, proved the Crimeans wanted to be part of Russia and turned out to show the opposite; remember the rubbish about the Israeli Airforce being chased out of Iran?; remember the rubbish about how your sources tracked the US bombers all the way across Europe before they bombed Iran only to find that they were tracking the wrong thing?. You fell for all these and much more and never learned a single thing.

So telling me to watch the latest of your fiction creators is not going to work.

Here's a graph on the GDP of Venezuela.... http://tiny.cc/fhax001

Note that its economy fell off the cliff in 2014.

But the oil sanctions didn't start until 2019.

Since the economic collapse preceded the sanctions, do I need to explain why they couldn't have caused it.

Quick AC, run off to YouTube to find someone who'll tell you how the sanctions worked retrospectively... or some other fiction.

"Alas, that was overturned at the point of a gun."
- Oh and I forgot to add that I more or less support this.

If a foreign power wishes to weaponise democracy to install a ruler loyal to a foreign nation, then democracy isn't working for the people and that's more or less what they deserve, imprisonment anyway.

None of what you said changes the fact that America wishes to rule the country and take its resources for themselves by force and I note you did not deny the admission from a CIA analyst that a previous President of Venezuela was a CIA asset and U.S puppet ruler.