I remember watching Stephen Fry, where he interviewed Bolsanaro when he was in Congress, before he was elected President. The thing that struck me most and which I remember vividly was Fry talking candidily to the camera after the interview out in the street, where Fry said of Bolsanaeo "I think that is the most evil person I have ever met"

"In Mein Kampf he denounced “the Marxist poison” over and over again,"

“the Marxist poison”...in quotes and all...you know like it was a quote. "Over and over again".

Now? Oh well, he never actually said that, just things that are somewhat similar if you squint and put on your (communist) red glasses.

This constant willingness to distort the facts in the search for what you consider to be a victory. You should be constantly accompanied by a fact checker but I have neither the time nor the inclination.

"Try downloading a PDF of an English translation and run through it with Ctrl+F if you don’t believe me."

I have a hard copy version, a digital version (on my Kindle) and an original German version given to me by a dear Russian friend back in the 1990s when, following the collapse of the Berlin Wall, such things were being sold on the streets of east Germany for pennies.

Its my opinion the terms far right and far left are outdated and belong back in 18th century. I agree with the 'Horseshoe Principle' where extremists with one set of values tend to find commonality with those they claim to oppose, with their set of values Fascism and Communism are examples of radical extremism having a common goal of total totalitarian control. I don't believe that Hitler and Stalin were all that different in their aims of domination of society by the state. Extremism cannot gain traction unless there is radical social disorder, the Russian Revolution, like the French Revolution before it, didn't happen by chance, there was a ground swell of mass discontent in society against the established order, and the radical element was able to articulate and exploit that discontent. The social conditions have to be right for extremist to gain the ascendancy. There is no danger of radical revolution in Australia as the reasonably well off egalitarian society wont allow for extreme ideologies to gain traction.

mhaze,

I take it you've given up on trying to prove that Hitler and the Nazis were a bunch of lefties, and are now simply trying to attack my credibility.

//“the Marxist poison”…in quotes and all…you know like it was a quote.//

Right. Because plagues and pestilence are so much better than poison.

The point isn’t which synonym you prefer - Hitler repeatedly depicted Marxism as a mortal toxin or epidemic, not a legitimate doctrine.

//Now? Oh well, he never actually said that, just things that are somewhat similar if you squint and put on your (communist) red glasses.//

You know you’re moving up in the world when you’ve been promoted from “poison” to “a fatal epidemic disease.”

//This constant willingness to distort the facts…//

What’s distorted?

I quoted Hitler directly and even flagged the translation variants. You, on the other hand, haven’t produced a single passage to back your claim that he wasn’t obsessed with Marxism itself. Instead you’ve shifted from “he meant only Bolshevism” to “he didn’t use those exact two words” to “you’re a distorter.”

That’s not fact-checking, that’s dodging.

//I have a hard copy, a Kindle, and an original German version…//

Perfect.

Then you can confirm firsthand that Hitler targets Marxismus by name all through Mein Kampf. And we know it wasn’t just talk - once in power, the Nazis dissolved free trade unions (2 May 1933) and outlawed other parties (14 July 1933), annihilating the Left at home, not just “Russian Bolshevism.”

Owning multiple editions doesn’t strengthen your case if you never quote from them.

By the way, you still haven’t offered a shred of evidence that Nazism was left-wing. All you’ve done is quibble over wording while ignoring the fact that Hitler and the Nazis defined themselves by crushing Marxists, communists, and socialists.

That silence speaks louder than your nitpicking.

Hi Paul1405

I agree with your point about the horseshoe nature of ideology and the parallels between fascism and communism, especially the varieties practiced by Hitler and Stalin. Interestingly, while libertarianism is definitely not in that statist mode, it also has its left-wing parallel in anarchism, sharing suspicion of the state and radical commitment to individual liberty. From my observation anarchism never had much of a place in the Australian political scene but it was a colourful part of the left spectrum in my distant youth in the UK, and historically has sometimes been a significant idea in European political thought.

I think there can be a place for polemic and name-calling in robust political debate (in these forums you have described the Israeli government as “Nazi” and I have called Hamas and the Iranian regime “Islamofascist”). But for more nuanced debate it may be best to use ideological labels that the person being labelled is happy to own. I have known many people who cheerfully self-describe as libertarian, anarchist, Trotskyist, conservative etc, and when using these terms there is a shared and accepted understanding of what they mean. Other terms are seldom used as self-descriptions and almost always used as insults or to denigrate an ideology the user disagrees with – e.g. “cultural Marxist” and “Neo-liberal”, In these cases, Leyonhjelm may have a point – the labels tell you more about the people using them than the people they are directed at.

What would any of you know what Hitler said or thought ? All you have to fall back on is English speaking World propaganda !
They did it then & they do it now. The English speaking World has been on a path to nowhere for many decades, just look at them now ! The Germans have gone as silly as the British. The only once who still have control over their senses are Italians, Poles, Hungarians, Argentinians & a couple of Scandinavian Nations.
Listen to them !