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Water planning 101: stabilise the population : Comments
By Stephen Saunders, published 28/11/2024Stabilising population, argues the report Big thirsty Australia, is the safest and cheapest avenue to meet arid Australia's water needs. Not what government wants to hear, is it?
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Posted by Taswegian, Thursday, 28 November 2024 8:29:42 AM
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It ain`t rocket science.
TOO MANY HUMANS. Posted by ateday, Thursday, 28 November 2024 8:46:23 AM
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This article is nonsense.
By far the biggest consumer of water in Australia is the agriculture sector – accounting for almost 75% of consumption. Most agricultural produce is exported. In effect, we export water embedded in agricultural products because water is cheap and abundant in Australia. There is a useful discussion to be had about whether agriculture is under-charged for the water it uses, or whether more should be reserved for the environment. But population growth has negligible effect on agricultural water consumption. Households account for just 13% of water consumption in Australia. Australia’s population grew by 11% between 2013-14 and 2021-22 (the period covered in the latest water account) but households’ water consumption rose by just 5%. Average household use has fallen steadily over time. In other sectors water consumption intensity has fallen even more sharply. Over the same 8-year period Australia’s total water consumption actually decreased by 8%. Desalinating seawater is sustainable. Properly planned, it is a great use of renewable energy, because it can be done when the wind is blowing and the sun is shining – when renewable energy supply is at its highest - and so has negligible marginal cost or greenhouse gas emissions. Sydney’s desalination plant uses 100% renewable energy. Data sources: Water consumption: http://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/environment/environmental-management/water-account-australia/2021-22 Population: http://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/national-state-and-territory-population/mar-2024#data-downloads Sydney desalination: http://sydneydesal.com.au/calls_to_action/renewable-energy/ Posted by Rhian, Thursday, 28 November 2024 1:46:46 PM
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Desalination is only an option for small scale operation up to 300-500 Kl/day for communities of up to 500 people. Any more & the effort & cost become unviable ! Not to mention the exhaust from Diesel generated electricity to run such plants. There's a blaring silence regarding the brine entering the waterways from large Desal plants. I believe there's a huge blob of brine in a river in Perth WA.
Posted by Indyvidual, Thursday, 28 November 2024 7:22:29 PM
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Hi, Ateday. The report, and this review, make it very clear that agriculture is our biggest water-user, and so far, TOTAL consumption has been static.
Point is, the party might be over. Households can't keep on getting more "efficient" in water use. Desal is very costly to site, to build and to run, running them on attractively "renewable" or "net zero" energy is a con. Sure, Down Under can stay on our same road, but it's a bonanza for "stakeholders" not hapless voters (consumers), who DON'T want massive migration. For water "planners", a Melbourne of 10m chugging on "manufactured" water looks groovy. To others, it looks nuts. Posted by Steve S, Friday, 29 November 2024 7:30:30 AM
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Indyvidual
Perth has two desalination plants with combined capacity of 150 billion litres of water a year which supply about 45% of its water supply. http://www.watercorporation.com.au/Our-water/Desalination Another is under construction, due to commence production in 2028. http://www.watercorporation.com.au/Our-water/Desalination/Alkimos-Seawater-Desalination-Plant In all three cases hypersaline water is discharged into the Indian Ocean, so desalination has no effect on river or groundwater salinity. And they are powered by renewable energy. Steve S Your article links “water deficits” to “rampant population growth”. But - Total water consumption across all uses – households, agriculture and other industry - has fallen between 2014-15 and 2021-22. - Household consumption is a small proportion of our total water use and it is growing less quickly than population growth. - Desalination is a viable option to ensure reliable high-quality potable water supplies and, if powered by renewable energy, is environmentally sustainable. There are rational debates to be had about Australia’s population growth, and also about water use and management in a drying climate. But baseless scaremongering about water shortages caused by population growth contributes nothing useful to either. Posted by Rhian, Friday, 29 November 2024 1:54:00 PM
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Perth has two desalination plants with combined capacity of 150 billion litres of water a year
Rhian, In realistic terms that translates to 450 Billion litres of brine from Perth alone. Add to that the many, many, many times more outflow from plants around the world, added by other massive pollution from ships & industry etc.& it's not rocket science that the oceans are acidifying at an alarming rate. Posted by Indyvidual, Saturday, 30 November 2024 6:53:08 AM
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Indyvidual
Your earlier post made two claims – that desalination “is only an option for small scale operation up to 300-500 Kl/day” and that there is a “huge blob of brine in a river in Perth WA” because of desalination. Both are wrong. Posted by Rhian, Saturday, 30 November 2024 2:24:09 PM
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Both are wrong.
Rhian, I did say I "believe" re the blob as I clearly recall reading & hearing about a huge blob of brine from a Desal plant going back & forth in Swan River some years back. You obviously have something to gain from portraying desalination in a more positive light than it really is. A 100Kl/day plant running off an 80Kva genset requires 180-200 Diesel/day alone. No Green power can run that for a day in the first place. Replenishing groundwater & dams are a far more environmental solution. Also, less waste will help as well. Posted by Indyvidual, Saturday, 30 November 2024 7:55:45 PM
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Indyvidual
Your memory is clearly faulty. Or, perhaps can you explain how there could be a salinity problem in the Swan River caused by discharge from a desalination plant, given that Perth’s two desalination plants are many miles from the river and discharge into the Indian Ocean. Yes, desalination in energy intensive, but both of Perth’s desalination plants use renewable energy, which has low environmental impact and marginal cost. I have nothing to gain from portraying desalination in a favourable light. My only vested interest in this issue is that, as a Perth resident, I want access to reliable, affordable high-quality potable water produced in a sustainable manner. I am happy that the Water Corporation has taken measures to deliver this. Posted by Rhian, Sunday, 1 December 2024 12:38:36 PM
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More evidence that SusPopAus spruiks opinion based junk (social) science word salads masquerading as credible hard science analysis, without evidence while ignoring or omitting other factors....
Mr Saunders, have you ever been to a Tanton or TSCP writers' workshop? You analysis resembles your mate running around Crikey comments section Dr Smithy who shoots messengers, avoids detail, makes BS claims to dog whistle young people while running protection for ageing boomers, fossil fuels and power? Too easy when talking points are repetitively platformed by RW MSM & social media, starting with Fox News employing chums of Tanton's reporting to the top, hmmm? https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-news/if-you-are-business-fox-news-you-are-hook-its-white-nationalism Posted by Andras Smith, Tuesday, 3 December 2024 4:14:18 AM
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Rhian,
Well, it may not have been the Swan but I clearly remember reading about some inlet near Perth having a brine blob from a desal just moving back & forth in the tide. I've tried to Google it but no luck. Posted by Indyvidual, Thursday, 5 December 2024 6:55:10 AM
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On the one hand we have the fantasy of mythical power sources against the reality of a booming population. New migrants please bring several hundred thousand litres of water with you. Everything will go up in price, not just housing but water, electricity and food. Yet every politician wants more people. Make the politicians pay for it.