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The Forum > Article Comments > A few ideas on how to arrest our freefalling education system > Comments

A few ideas on how to arrest our freefalling education system : Comments

By Graham Young, published 28/12/2023

A 13-year-old in Singapore is performing as well as a 17-year-old in Australia.

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Australian fetishised with importing excessive quantities of the dumb and uneducated foreigners from overseas in order to suppress wages is not helpful to the statistical cause of quality education outcomes
Posted by diver dan, Thursday, 28 December 2023 1:19:30 PM
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The political class and the unions pig-headedly insist that it's all about money; whoever puts the most money in has 'done something' about education.

The money is going to the wrong people. Instead of money going to third-rate teachers, departments and bureaucrats, it should be distributed to parents by way of vouchers so that they can choose the schools they want their kids to attend.

Both public and private schools could then compete for students by providing what the parents want for their kids, and it wouldn't be the political indoctrination pounded out by poor quality activist teachers.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 28 December 2023 1:47:50 PM
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The poor mentality of Australian teachers is the outcome of the Goaf’s selling out the National Service. Ever since, common sense mentality has been forced out of the way by the socialist ‘let others be responsible’ mentality. I suggest that a career in teaching should not be possible without a 12 months Gap year National Service under the belt. Only people who understand responsibility can instil responsibility !
Posted by Indyvidual, Thursday, 28 December 2023 5:53:59 PM
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What a typically blinkered article I'm afraid dwelling on faux rightwing push button factors rather than taking a broader view.

Where was the acknowledgment that the great privatisation drive has failed us? Our ratio of private school students is around 35%. This puts us alongside countries like Madagascar, Liberia, Kuwait and Indonesia. Most of Europe the percentage is under 10% and in Singapore which the author has held up as a poster child it is 5.6%.
http://tradingeconomics.com/singapore/school-enrollment-secondary-private-percent-of-total-secondary-wb-data.html

Another factor is Singapore achieves the outstanding results it does because it invests in them.

It spends the equivalent of 20% of its GDP on education. Australia spends around 8.5%.

Inconvenient truths not mentioned.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Thursday, 28 December 2023 9:37:37 PM
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"It [Singapore] spends the equivalent of 20% of its GDP on education. Australia spends around 8.5%."

Rubbish. In fact Singapore spends around 3% of GDP on education.
What is it with SR and numbers?

In Australia, spending per student has steadily increased over the past several decades even as outcomes have decreased. Clearly the amount spent isn't the determining factor.

But the thing is that we are comparing ourselves with nations who have very different aims in their education systems. Places like Singapore and Kazakhstan and the East Asian tigers look to educate their students in what we used to call the three 'R's. This is their major aim and sole determinant of success. But we have very different aims for our education system these days.

While it is true that authorities mouth platitudes about teaching literacy and numeracy etc in order to keep the paying public on the hook, education in Australia has very different aims and measures of success. Now we educate kids on non-core issues with entire schools devoted to sport or dance or the arts. Individual expression is seen as more important than understanding algebra.

When we no longer seek to inculcate students with literacy/numeracy, we'll inevitably fall behind nations who do prioritise these things. And the education mafia are fine with that.

This is why there is such a drive toward private education as parents seek to shield their kids from the education bureaucrats and give them a more traditional education
Posted by mhaze, Friday, 29 December 2023 7:06:22 AM
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Another factor is Singapore achieves the outstanding results it does because it invests in them.
SteeleRedux,
Singaporeans have a mentality that is unacceptable to more than half of Australians. Caring & responsibility are shunned here whereas Singaporeans pride themselves in the common good. Singapore benefits from its education system, Australia’s is a liability. That is one inconvenient truth Australian Leftists ensure doesn’t get a mention.
Posted by Indyvidual, Friday, 29 December 2023 7:27:58 AM
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Instead of bringing foreign students here, perhaps we should be sending our own students to countries that still have the same attitude to education and values that Australian politicians and education bureaucrats no longer have.

Another choice for parents, along with the choice of public or private education for their children, via a voucher system instead of money going to government employed activists.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 29 December 2023 7:35:00 AM
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post-truth mhaze,

More than happy to concede my error in not checking the stat I was quoting.

I took the Google summary of this page at face value without going into it properly: http://www.macrotrends.net/countries/SGP/singapore/education-spending

While it does say "General government expenditure on education (current, capital, and transfers) is expressed as a percentage of total general government expenditure", the table and graph however are labelled as "Education Spending (% of GDP)".

My bad.

See that is what you do when you are found to have erroneously asserted something like a made up quote about Biden's daughter. Acknowledge your error and move on. You don't double down instead.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Friday, 29 December 2023 9:06:48 AM
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"More than happy to concede my error...."

Well there's a first.
Posted by mhaze, Friday, 29 December 2023 9:16:22 AM
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All round an interesting and thoughtful read. My only concerns are about two ideas offered.

1) preventing parents and students from becoming the teachers 'enemy'
2) banning mobile phones.

Teachers I know report that a major issue for them is the attitude of parents. A major social issue I believe, reaching far beyond the classroom.
While I wish mobile phones at school could be controlled, they have grown to be such an integral part of society today achieving a school wide ban would be extremely difficult.
Posted by Aries54, Friday, 29 December 2023 9:52:42 AM
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Dear Aries54,

Here in Victoria mobile phones in schools have been banned for a couple of years now.

It was done primarily to combat cyber-bullying with limiting distraction as a hopeful secondary benefit.

Unfortunately Ipads have filled the gap and most students are using them to connect with each other in class.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Friday, 29 December 2023 10:00:49 AM
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Here in Victoria mobile phones in schools have been banned for a couple of years now.
SteeleRedux,
Are you suggesting such a sensible measure was implemented by the much maligned Andrews Govt ?
Posted by Indyvidual, Sunday, 31 December 2023 8:11:55 AM
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Dear Indyvidual,

Yes, shocking isn't it.

He did a lot of good things.

The Startup agency he created has been kicking goals recently too.

"Commissioned by Victoria’s Startup Agency, LaunchVic, ‘Scaling up: Growing the economic opportunity for Victoria’s startup ecosystem’ report highlights that Victoria’s entire ecosystem value has almost doubled since the last report in 2020 up from $50 billion to $91 billion.

It also shows that despite Victoria’s population falling for the first time in almost 30 years, the Victorian startup ecosystem experienced a rapid expansion of its startup workforce, which increased from 37,000 in 2020 to 52,000 FTE jobs in 2022."
http://launchvic.org/announcements/victorian-startup-ecosystem-outperforms-growth-expectations/

It certainly has helped one of the businesses I deal with regularly which is now growing at 50% a year.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Sunday, 31 December 2023 10:20:13 AM
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FTE Jobs ?
SteeleRedux,
Excuse my ignorance, what are these jobs ?
Posted by Indyvidual, Monday, 1 January 2024 5:42:15 PM
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Victoria’s entire ecosystem value has almost doubled since the last report in 2020 up from $50 billion to $91 billion.
SteeleRedux,
How does this increase in value translate into actual value to the average Victorian & how did this value eventuate ?
Posted by Indyvidual, Tuesday, 2 January 2024 8:00:57 AM
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