Hi Max,

I am very skeptical of claims of how everything can be done when there is no proof of concept. Years ago Bob Brown was saying that renewable energy technology was capable of replacing existing power infrastructure with a similar proof of concept, and look at the mess today!

Unfortunately the world is full of people spouting bs and the only protection we have against it is to see material evidence. If that makes me a Doubting Thomas then Graham's argument is supported.

Well Fester this is where you are just wrong. What do you mean by 'Proof of concept?' Why so sceptical? Seriously - pumped hydro is one of the oldest, most proven technologies around. It's mature and possible to cost. Watch Real Engineering on it. https://youtu.be/JSgd-QhLHRI

Solar and wind have come down to 10% the cost of 12 years ago.

The real question is what kind of 100% renewable grid are we trying to build - huge or small? Some worry about the costs of storage too much, and propose super-grids that could take Perth sunshine to curve around the planet 4000km to run Sydney evenings till around 7pm or 8pm (depending on the season). They're worried storage is just TOO expensive. It's not. The real problem with super-grids is Nimbyism. People might even be sympathetic and understand the need - but why their backyard? Even Germany is having trouble building super-grids.

But if we don’t go for super-grids - then won’t storage blow out the costs? Not according to the Blakers team from the Australian National University. They have spreadsheets to cost various pumped hydro schemes. https://re100.eng.anu.edu.au/phescostmodel/index/

Potential sites for off-river PHES (Pumped Hydro Electricity Storage) are VAST - 300 times what we require in Australia. Off-river means no river ecosystems are damaged and they are faster to build. Local communities and farmers can earn some extra cash, helping the grid. Small is beautiful. To avoid Nimbyism and get the job done faster, NSW should build out as much solar and wind as we need, and a few great PHES. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0360544217309568

This paper on an Asian grid compared building a Super-Grid to local pumped hydro. It's only plus or minus 5%, depending on your particular topology and resource distributions. Fossil fuel particulates are so dangerous they effectively DOUBLE our electricity price - it’s just we pay in our health budget! Plus or minus 5% compared to that is nothing - and compared to the incomparable dangers of climate change is TRITE!
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0360544221016352

Hi Max,

Why am I so skeptical? You know, before Andrew Forrest became a champion of the planet he had it all figured out on paper how to to produce nickel so cheaply that the spot price would drop below 1 USD per pound. Currently, the spot nickel price is close to 12 USD. That is but one grain in the sandpit of great ideas that did not work out as planned.

When I see real world evidence suggesting that renewables are not living up to the grand claims of the spruikers, I tend to be skeptical of the story. Believing in fairy tales is not a great life plan, no matter how woke they might be or how warm and fuzzy they might make you feel.

Onya Max!

Keep these Renewable Dismissing monkeys honest.

Mavs

And BTW Uncle FESTER*

Frogs in glass saucepans shouldn't smoke coal.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Fester#Character

"Fester is a completely hairless, hunched, and barrel-shaped man with dark, sunken eyes and often a deranged smile.

He always wears a heavy, full-length fur coat."

Thank you Maverick. Glad you could spare some time away from top gunning. Perhaps you could explain to me how the example of Desertec was such a resounding success? The idea was to produce uber cheap power in North Africa that would be sent to Europe via a network of power cables. The waste heat could be used for desalination. The fundamental problem with the concept is that by the time you cost all of the transmission infrastructure, it is much cheaper to generate on site. Also, you might note that woody biomass is the main renewable energy source in Europe, not wind and solar.