Aidan,
You're only making academic sense, not practical sensible sense !

"So why are you advocating going with greed instead of taking responsibility?"
Where am I saying that ? You're one of those vehemently opposing a National Service/discipline scheme.

It is rare to see a historical event in terms of absolute good and evil, but I think that Ukraine is the exception.

Every country which joins the UN has recognisable borders, and Ukraine is no exception. You can argue that The Crimea should be a part of Russia for historical reasons and I would agree with you there. But the only reason for the war in Ukraine today is because Vladamir Putin is another Hitler who wants to recreate the USSR.

Australia's response is that we should give Ukraine everything we can spare because defending a true democracy against some mad totalitarian dictators bend on imperial expansion is what all democracies should do. In the past few decades western nations have given away loads of military gear to regimes and people who were not worth a pinch of s-h-i-t, but the Ukrainian people are another matter.

There is a real opportunity here if only the western leaders are smart enough to grab it. Defeat of Putin in Ukraine might just get him ousted which might just get Russia into a western oriented democracy. And that is worth an immense amount of effort. So too, defeat of Russia would make that mad hatter Ji Jin Ping think twice about invading Taiwan. Don't forget that most Chinese weapons are copies of Russian weapons and Russian weapons, especially their tanks, are being seen to be very inferior to western weapon systems.

Saying "it is none of our business" will backfire if China ever gets it in their head to invade Australia. I am heartened that so many free countries are contributing to Ukraine's defense, and I hope they will do the same for us if needed. Australia has sent Ukraine 6 M777 artillery pieces, lets give them 20 more and the ammo to throw at our collective totalitarians enemies.

130 Australian are now on an official Russian government list which prevents them from ever visiting Russia again. I am outraged that I am not on that list, and I hope that the Russian government will correct this mistake immediately.

Indy,
>You're only making academic sense, not practical sensible sense !
Yes, I'm making sense that can be rigorously defended, not sense so "practical and sensible" that it fits the prejudices of the stupid.

>Where am I saying that ?
You agree with Viv, and want to put our short term interest ahead of defending a democratic nation. Do you really think that isn't greedy?

>You're one of those vehemently opposing a National Service/discipline scheme.
Yes of course - like the vast majority of people, I oppose unnecessarily depriving people of their freedom just because they're young! And I've already pointed out the absolute preposterousness of your delusion that the decent young would regard national service more favourably.

that it fits the prejudices of the stupid.
Aidan,
'So, if those stupid decide to stipulate where the money earned from their efforts goes it makes them greedy ? You're the greedy one here thinking we all owe you a living because you think you deserve it ? To deserve you first have to earn & a Uni or TAFE course isn't earning.'

..our short term interest ahead of defending a democratic nation.

'ok, let's do away with the short-term hand-outs for the likes of you & see how you'll defend the Nation that feeds you.'

depriving people of their freedom just because they're young!

"exposure to basic discipline & decency is not deprivation of freedom, it's a vital learning process to prevent more young people from becoming what you et al are !"

Only a few minutes ago I listened to Australia all over & there were a few hints at bringing back a kind of National Service. It'd be for young people to get exposure to community mindedness & recognise the importance of responsibility & diligence.
The much pushed line of "denying freedom" by the the self-centred & greedy parents of quite good young people does not come up in my conversations with young people about a NS.
I get an near 100% approval rate from the young ones, particularly those who find it very difficult to get into the workforce. Just about all of them remark with a hint of hope that such a scheme will eventuate. Of course, I'm only speaking with country young & not the brainwashed glued-to-phone concrete jungle dwellers who are convinced that only video games & social media saturated time wasting is the way forward !
My advise to the young is "don't listen to your parents if they're Millennials or late Baby Boomers because most of them are the ones who stuffed it all up for all of us".