Why didn’t we get nuclear subs from France? Would the balls up have been different if we had? The French were falling further behind all the time, and the price kept rising.

Besides, the silly deal was entered into by a different government from the present one, and the present government has decided to go back to our natural, English speaking allies. France's reaction to the perfectly sensible breaking of the deal in the interests of our security underlines the fact that the Gallic temperament and way of doing things is not simpatico with ours.

I’m self assured, that acting from a position of panic is no way to run our personal lives,

Why is it evident that the Australian government(s) blunder from one panic to the next without a pause?

A: total and absolute mismanagement and lack of ability!

Dan.

There is a history with Subs and its not good.

First there was the debacle of annoying and cancelling the Japanese Sub Deal. Secondly, its the French.

We have wasted a lazy couple of Billion so far AND we'll have a BIG strategic gap in our defense between when the Collins Class goes to the wreckers in a few years time and 2040 ( I bet there will be delays and cost over runs, the very thing thing they are using as excuses for canceling this latest deal).

I don't want to anybody to say from the Libs, "we can manage the economy or defense better than labour" because the evidence is just not there.

How about we visit Avis and Hertz for Subs?

I believe the idea has merit and should be considered as a stop-gap measure to replace the obsolete Collins class subs. The virtue of the nuclear-powered barracuda is its sheer speed underwater. And as the nuclear version, run rings around the aging collins class. Moreover, I would want nuclear-tipped weapons that they could also supply as a replacement for the bulk of the cancelled subcontract! Yes, it'd cost! but mending fences and the french bak n side with a EU free trade agreement? Would be a better outcome than the current hissy spit!

If we really want The Chinese o back peddle with their ultra-aggressive forward posture? Then a nuclear capability is an absolute. Moreover, having that option in the locker means, never ever having to use them or having them used against us! And simply not the case at this time.

Of course, there are going to be a few dropkicks and gift columnists going ballistic with objections! Objections that should be noted along with their verifiable IDs! We need to know who and what these folk are and their motives!

Nonetheless, these decisions should prevail in any extent! Besides, it's far easier to beg forgiveness than to beg for never ever, extended permission!
Alan B.

I searched in vain for a logical connection between current events and France providing nuclear weapons for the proposed new submarine deal. OK, the words France and nuclear do appear a lot but that's it. France is not now providing the submarines so why should it be involved in weapons? And one doesn't need a nuclear submarine for carrying nuclear weapons any more than nuclear aircraft are needed to carry nuclear bombs. I'm baffled. As for the case presented for Australia acquiring nuclear weapons, it is a totally separate matter and extremely unlikely to get political support, for good reasons. On the other hand there are strong technical reasons for nuclear propulsion of submarines and nuclear energy for the nation. Let's not talk about weapons and energy as if they are part of the same subject. They're not.

Good point ttbn! And that should be put to the french as a salutary lesson in how to honour two-sided contracts and the reason, this time, why the order was cancelled!

Perhaps, when the olive branch is extended, they will negotiate and honour any new contacts far more realistically and not seek bait and change C.R.A.P. as a price-gouging business model going forward?

We are buying 8 subs from the yanks and brits? And could be in the market for French nuclear powered nuclear-armed French ones, as off the shelf purchases? Given the original order was for 12? TBC.
Alan B.

The French Golden Goose never got to deliver even it's first egg.

It turned out to be a Turkey .

One can see why the French are unhappy , I would be if my GG was roasted.

As IF the French would want to cooperate with Aus on subs after the AUKUS declaration?!

Aus nuke Barracuda SSNs would need to be Uranium refueled in France every 7-10 years rather than having the UK/US all-of-life 35 year core reactors.

UK/US SSNs are superior to French SSNs in all other ways.

We rarely inter-operate with the French Navy (including their nuke subs - rarely in our region). In contrast we operate ith the UK Royal Navy at a higher tempo and constantly interoperate with US Navy SSNs.

In any case the French Government owned Naval Group are fully committed finishing their Barracuda SSNs for France and building the next generation SSBNs for France.

In light of French SSNs and SSBNs for France - its already proven that France considered the Aussie Attack class build as THIRD PRIORITY

and would treat French SSNs for Aus as THIRD PRIORITY!

I'm all for nuclear submarines, nuclear weapons and anything else that means we can at least try to protect ourselves from Communist China. But I've just read an article mentioning "our third change of mind on submarine options in six years" and how this could raise "questions about our competence in matters of defence acquisition".

One point raised was: if in 2013 defence department officials opposed the nuclear-powered submarines option on the grounds that, without a domestic nuclear industry, Australia wouldn’t have the capacity to operate or maintain them, how come that's not a problem now? We still don't have a nuclear industry, and Morrison says we won't have one.

It's not the submarines that pisses off China. Lord knows when we will get them, and even when we do, China could still do us like a dinner. The real problem for China is that the US and the UK have reinforced the fact that they have our back.

In the meantime, China has its own problems. As of now, China's debt is 280% of GDP. Xi has banned things like private tutoring; is reining in Chinese tech companies, and squeezing the property sector, which will hit foreign investment, largely responsible for Chinese growth.

China has lingered as a middle-income country for 25 years - much longer than the Asian tigers like South Korea, Taiwan and Singapore. The workforce is shrinking because of the one-child policy. The CCP is scared stiff of the Chinese people; hence the bluff and bluster against Australia, which is the only country not bowing down to Xi’s threats and insults around trade and economy.

If we could lease a nuclear-powered hull or two? Our navy personal could be up to speed on the operation/capability before the first of our purchases are delivered?

Those that fail to see why confronting a nuclear-armed adversary with a similar capability as reprisals! Leave us as naked defence wise as the hypothetical Emporer! Whereas, having that capability means logically never having to use them!

And maybe the CCP returning to a previous strategy of buying large chunks of real estate/infrastructure?

As a foot in the door of the same outcome? I mean there are enough quisling Australians who for a hypothetical, forty pieces of silver, will allow them to take us over without a shot fired or bloodshed? I wish with all my heart I could say different!

I also agree we need nuclear industry here at home if only to ensure the lights stay on if we are ever tasked with conducting a war?

And if we are so charged, we may need to make all our fuel from inexhaustible seawater! Only nuclear power gives us that option at prices that are competitive, rather than prohibitive/economy-killing Naturally, that power would have to be, cheaper than coal, thorium!

That comes with miracle cancer cure, alpha particle, spinoffs!
Spinoffs that could give hope to around two million PA around the world now living with death sentences and big pharma reeling in millions from delaying the inevitable, even more from the palliative care that follows!

Indeed the very reason why they keep on keeping on pretending we haven't licked many death sentence cancers and indeed some very nasty brain cancers!

If there were any other logical reason? It surely escapes me!

Finally, in the foregoing post, Grammarly autocorrect, seems to have corrected fifth colonists into, of all things ridiculous, gift colonists? Seemingly, post posting!? Mischievous vexatious behaviour that was already way beyond tolerance!

I could probably remedy that by buying premier Grammarly!? But I'll never give in to commercial blackmail as a marketing strategy! Moreover, never ever will!
Alan B.

Apparently, the French were asked about the nuclear option and refused.

Where did you hear or read that Shadow Minister? I think you're full of it! But "apparently" you could prove me wrong! By putting up or STFU!

Whereupon, I'll bend over backwards with perfuse apologies! Waiting!
Alan B.

French nuclear submarines were considered by the Australian government, but were found to be inferior to US and UK versions. The French's delays and increasing costs would have been taken into account as well.

That's racism, ttbn. True though.

Alan B,

Time to eat crow. This article from the guardian is not the only article that clearly indicates that Aus from the start wanted nuclear subs but was refused:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/sep/17/australia-considered-buying-nuclear-submarines-from-france-before-ditching-deal-peter-dutton-says

"In the competitive evaluation process for the project, Naval Group (then DCNS) was pitching a conventional version of its existing nuclear submarines but made it clear nuclear versions were on offer.

The chief executive, Herve Guillou, said in 2016 that “if in 2050, Australia wants a nuclear submarine, they can design a nuclear submarine”.

The 2050 date was on the understanding that Australia would need time to develop a sovereign nuclear capability, but that is not a necessary prerequisite to building nuclear submarines, as the Aukus deal has shown."

Alan B,

Still waiting for the apology!