The Forum > Article Comments > Rethinking Australia’s defense and security > Comments
Rethinking Australia’s defense and security : Comments
By Murray Hunter, published 2/9/2020A changing world means Canberra must pivot to Asia.
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Posted by diver dan, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 8:14:06 AM
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Murray's bio reveals that his area is business: nothing about achievements in defence matters. So, we must take his piece as mere opinion. And, we all know about China. Not sure what our "traditional defense and security doctrine" means. Not sure that Murray does, either. Bushfires, drought and "the pandemic" don't seem to be relevant to it. And, politicians are correct in assuming that "that Australia's defense and security was closely aligned with US objectives", because they are. Murray even spells 'defence' the American way, with a 's'.
We should be continuing to foster "traditional" allies and partnerships, because, apart from Japan, the Asians have little interest in us, and they have nothing in common with us. They are even more cowed by China than we are; some are already up to their ears in debt to China. Our only hope is a strong, Republican America. We need to start seriously defending ourselves and our culture - Western culture, not blathering about being in the Asian region. We have the example of the United Kingdom and the European Union to see how getting mixed up with people who don't speak the same language ends. Geography has nothing to do with who we are. Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 9:51:52 AM
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According to an IPA poll, 54% of Victorians do not want Andrew's Chinese BRI agreement with an obvious enemy of Australia going ahead. That's enough people to knock him and his extremist government on the head if they carry through on his amazing incompetence on that other Chinese legacy, the virus. Given Andrew's demonstration of what it is like live under a totalitarian regime, it's high time Victorians started taking action. Here's hoping.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 10:22:04 AM
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What Diver Dan and TTBN have said here make me proud that there are still some Australian's around this empty echo chamber that is our country. Kudos
Posted by Canem Malum, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 10:38:11 AM
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Yes ttbn, if the democrats win the upcoming US election, we will find ourselves basically alone. Depending too much on the yanks would be about as much use as depending on the poms in WW11. They defended India, not Oz, & expecting more from particularly a democrat US would be at least as fruitless.
We need to be adequately nuclear armed. Not that we could actually win a war against China, but to make invading us too costly for the prize to be worth the taking. As distinct from tanks & aircraft, nuclear weapons are weapons of peace not weapons of war. The plan is that by having them, war is just not worth the waging. Without them we are a sitting duck for any numerically strong power, that could outlast the few superior weapons we have. At the moment we could not defend ourselves against just one US aircraft carrier, or even one of the latest Chinese carriers. I guess that if we upgrade our intelligence capacity we could throw emails at any invading force, we don't have much else really dangerous to throw. Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 10:45:08 AM
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A rethink is essential! But one that includes much more self-reliance and nuclear-armed, nuclear submarines!
China will have no respect for a partner it can bully! We need to push back and demonstrate, it needs us more than we need them! I'd start with a 10% tarrif on all manufactured products we buy from them, then up it by another 10% every time they stick one of their BS tarrifs on our traditional, unsubsidised, trade goods! And cancel some very important to them export licences and local real estate purchases, retropectively. Starting with the Darwin port! Then the belt and road Andrews has negotiated? Then Gas! We need to continue to be who we are. Folk who say what they believe and without fear or favour. Or worry that the truth as we see it, will cause some totalitarian tyrant to lose face? Then totally overreact as if we were Brutus, backstabbing Ceaser! Punish all Australians for the comment of a single man! And if you think that looks like lunacy? It's because it does! We need to look to a world where we can trade finished products, not selling raw materials to it! And earn ten times what we make now, selling rocks! A high tech manufacturing sector is ultimaely, our only reliable defence/security. And needs to be a nuclear-powered sector, i.e., MSR thorium. We can do it or waste precious time prevaricating! If hot air counted for anything? Our politicians would rule the world! As for Asia as defense partners? They will need to be proven reliable! Someone we can absolutely count on until the bitter end? Four candidates seem to come to mind? Vietnam, Japan, Taiwan and Singapore? It's not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog that counts! Alan B. Posted by Alan B., Wednesday, 2 September 2020 12:44:18 PM
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What must be understood is China believes that only China is a sovereign country.
All others are vassal states owing tribute to the Central Kingdom. I am surprised the author thinks Australia is in Asia. I guess he is like many children observing the world map on their school wall. That map is Mercadors Projection which gives a distorted view of the world. Even the scale of the Southern Hemisphere is smaller than that of the Northern Hemisphere. Mercador exaggerates the size of Russia and Siberia. Very clearly Australia is NOT in Asia and Asia is on the other side of the world. Even Indonesia is NOT in Asia but like Australia is in Oceania. Even its X25 address is Oceana. Which brings me to my point. Australia should offer the assistance of our Navy and surveillance aircraft to Indonesia to obstruct the Chinese "Fishing" fleets from intruding into Indonesian economic zones and forcing out Indonesian fishermen. This might also deter China from encircling Indonesia and intruding into the Timor Sea with its oil/gas fields on Darwin's doorstep. Indonesia has an unused base on the Nanda Islands which Australia could use if an agreement was reached with Indonesia. Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 1:53:56 PM
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Bazz,
Australia is now an Asian nation-state as a result of the Great Asianization Period (1980-2020) in Australian history. Remember it was people like you, mhaze, Hasbeen, etc., who were all for Asianization (aka Australian Multiculturalism) because you saw it as an opportunity to make a shitload of money out of China. Now the worm has turned and come back to bite you on the bum. As the Chinese will tell you: "Tuff lucka sucker!" Posted by Mr Opinion, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 2:23:30 PM
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@Hasbeen
1. I agree we need nuclear weeapons. France assisted 2 other countries to acquire nuclear weapons. They were - Israel. France built the Negev/Dimona nuclear reactor and Plutonium (nuclear explosive) reprocessing plant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimon_Peres_Negev_Nuclear_Research_Center#Construction and - South Africa. France and Israel helped South Africa build 6 gun-type nuclear weapons http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#Nuclear_weapons which were later dismantled The US, with its selectively internation "legal" foreign policy, cannot be relied on to supply Australia with nuclear weapons. __________________________________________ 2. Australia choosing a French conventional submarine for a very high price is no coincidence. It has much to do with down payments, consistuting long-term Future options, of buying French nuclear propelled submarines armed with nuclear weapons purchased from France. Nothing but nuclear weapons will deter China and India (for that matter). ________________________________________ 3. Australia shouldn't pivot to any Asian country, least of all China. Hunter, who writes "there is a need [for Australia] to cleanse the political landscape, educational institutions and local media of undue foreign influence." Just happens to include in his "About the Author." his own very foreign influence: "Murray Hunter is an associate professor at the University Malaysia Perlis." So Hunter's credibility in setting out Australian defence policy is somewhat questionable. Pete http://gentleseas.blogspot.com.au/ Posted by plantagenet, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 2:44:15 PM
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Well Opin, you should not make assumptions about people.
I was never in favour of Asian immigration, I remember Enoch Powell's warning to Britain and saw what has happened there. I noticed how Chinese run businesses only ever employed Chinese people. Straws in the wind perhaps, but real never the less. Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 3:02:24 PM
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Bazz,
And who is one that has been trying to warn you all about the Chinese for how long? You guessed it! MR OPINION. And now I am being proven right. Posted by Mr Opinion, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 3:58:17 PM
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You guessed it! MR OPINION.
Mr Opinion, Pauline Hansen & her supporters beat you to it by 30 years ! It's your crowd, the insipid Left that was against her from Day 1 ! Anyhow, a Nation whose Citizens can't even get themselves to agree to a National Service & stand up for their country, defending itself against a Billion patriots ? Stop selling Australia to the Chinese & we might have some tiny leverage ! Posted by individual, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 4:17:51 PM
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individual,
Better still let's just cancel all the Chinese's visas and piss them off back to China. Posted by Mr Opinion, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 4:58:23 PM
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cancel all the Chinese's visas
Mr Opinion, Many have been here longer than you, but I do agree that Immigration should take back Visa applications from the Australian Visa Agents & process them. Visas should be a Fed Govt jurisdiction not some money-hungry, treasonous private agents. So far as Chinese business & any other nationality is concerned, Australia should adopt a strategy of no Australian run business in those countries then no business from them in this country ! Full Stop ! Stop exporting so much ore etc, process here & then export the refined product. I mean how much more idiocy can we afford to tolerate from our bureaudroids ? Posted by individual, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 5:19:32 PM
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individual,
You saying they've been here on temporary visas for the past 70 years? Good, even more reason to piss them off to China. Posted by Mr Opinion, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 5:58:48 PM
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One of the attitudes that seems to get applied to Chinese overseas by
the Chinese government is that your ancestral country requires you to support the CCP and government. It is an echo of the Central Kingdom. Just what percentage of Chinese immigrants or even those born here respond to the blandsishments is hard to say but it is a factor as recent prosecutions in the US and the publicity about the 1000 Talents scandal indicates. Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 6:15:46 PM
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The next big surprise will be the real and true extent of Chinese investment in Au.
I think we can safely conclude that the FIRB is beyond a joke as a tool for keeping track of foreign investment.
Using history as a guide, me thinks it would be prudent to assume we are at war with China now, not in a possible future.
As we are quick to deport a few NZ criminals and missfits, Australia would be wise to extend that operation to include deporting Chinese missfits.
News is eerily silent on that aspect.
Next would be to intern Australian Chinese into internment camps, as we did with the Japanese in WW11.
But then again, one would need a truthful answer to the question, who is the real enemy in our midst?
We need to turn to Canberra for that answer.
Dan