Daniel Andrews government introduced probably the most severe laws against employers, who's employees either were injured or killed, in the world. I am not just talking about massive fines in the tens of millions where the irresponsible and neglectful behavior of the employee is not even considered a factor, I am talking about jail for even the top executives of the largest companies with tens of thousands of employees, if even one got injured or killed.

It is therefore perfectly logical to apply the same standards to crazy socialist governments like in Victoria that they impose on the very businesses they over tax to buy their votes. Danial Andres and his crazy government must therefore be prosecuted using the same standard. Their own behavior regarding the hotel quarantine was industrial scale negligence.

I liken the socialist hatred for private industry to the Taliban blowing up the 2000 year old Babiyan Buddhas in Afghanistan. This historical site could have attracted planeloads of pilgrims and tourists interested in visiting this historical site. But the brainless Taliban blew them up for ideological reasons. Such a crazy attitude towards the very sources of their economic survival is one the one thing the Talibs and Danial Andrews government hold in common.

I can't say that I feel "the widespread fury directed primarily towards Premier Dan Andrews.". Victoria is the most Leftist state in the country, notorious for electing left-wing nitwits; they have surpassed themselves with Andrews - they deserve him. The moron is using breaches of lockdown rules to make money, instead of locking up those who deliberately flout the law. Victorians are getting what they voted for.

And our no-hoper PM stands up for Andrews. The Australian political class is absolute rubbish. It is just a club. Very little difference in brands; and the club gets along with itself much better than the people it is supposed to be serving. The politicians are the ones "all in it together" - at the expense of the rest of us. And we continue to allow them to get away with it!.

socialist never apply the same standards to themselves as to what they demand of others. People joke about the swamp but it stinks to high heaven. I take it they are still providing drugs for the addicts while denying people drugs like hydroxychloroquine that may save their lives. That is what happens when you allow socialist to infiltrate every institution and level of Government. Don't forget at some time during this crisis Brett Sutton found time to write a paper on (you guessed it) climate change. You can't make this stuff up.

"You can almost feel the widespread fury directed primarily towards Premier Dan Andrews."

Nope.

People are certainly disappointed with what has happen but only those with the kind of ideological baggage like the author carries have elevated their feelings to "widespread fury".

Not that there isn't something worth a thorough inquiry because there is, but on the whole Andrews is regarded as working incredibly hard to bring this latest outbreak to heel and is respected for that effort.

Hopefully there will not be similar outbreaks in other states but god forbid if there were then the lessons learnt and the protocols being tested in Victoria will with luck be useful in combating them.

I think the whole problem is just a case of poor management, not thinking
through what the effect of decisions might be.
Not being willing to listen to other opinions has hidden alternatives.

Dan Andrews seems to be trying hard now by means of his daily Q&As.
Not sure that he is listening however. He may have convinced himself
that he is on the right path, but who can be certain that he is not ?

Re the Hexachlorine whatever it is, there have been reports of testing
overseas where when it is combined with zinc has had a great effect in
saving the lives of elderly patients if given early enough.
I suspect that the locals have closed their ears because their testing
was not using zinc and the results were not good.
The graphs I saw were pretty conclusive and there is no reason to think
anyone has forged them or those overseas medical institutes just want
to kill other people.

I seriously doubt it! Any more than Morrison is to face a similar case over the premature deaths in nursing homes or NSW health/Border force, over their responsibility for the cruise ship disembarkation, Ruby Princess.

As for widespread anger? Well there s a group spreading and massaging it with a campaign of willful misinformation? And I refer to the right wing shock jocks and their vicious, malicious conspiracy campaign.

Ably assisted in dingy rooms in Saint Petersburg and Beijing, where baleful operators at keyboards are busy, busy with a tide of misinformation and fake news.

Fr mine, when an operator is using your phone line to wage cyberwar? You hang up! And if that then costs that state billions in lost trade in consumer items?

Well, the message would be ground home especially if repaid with each attempt to sabotage/influence public opinion in blatant BS!

So as you sow, so also shall you reap. Therfore, where connectivity is completely cut to end the cyber campaign, etc? It would have to create huge commercial losses as their reward for years of interfering!?

On that note. If postal votes are invalid? And given how much they critically contributed to Donald Trumps narrow win in several key states!

Could his heavily reliant, postal vote assisted, election also be rendered invalid, along with everything he signed off on?
Alan B.

There are plenty of 'Qs' but not many 'As' from Andrews or his incompetent Health Minister.

Possible unintended consequences of proposed new laws should be carefully considered. Sometimes one of these is "How could your worst enemy use this law? I remember this being pointed out long ago by a Victorian National Party MP regarding how the then Labor government had used a law enacted by the previous Liberal administration to excess in ways it had not considered. Seems would be very appropriate if at next election the Coalition comes to power in Victoria for concerted efforts at charging Daniel Andrews using the draconian industrial manslaughter law enacted under his leadership.

Is there any wonder there's such a culture of responsibility avoidance when the statutes are so full of harsh penalties?

Makes it hard to ever get to the truth of happenings.

As there is a State of Emergency declared, a complete new set of laws
is in effect.
Forget what you are saying about the normally existing laws.
In a State of Emergency the Emergency Commander is God.
He can make decisions on who can go where and why.
If he says a group of people must be isolated, then they will be.
Obviously the government influences his decisions, but ultimately it is his decision.
How the normal laws are superseded by the Emergency Management Act or
whatever they call it in Victoria I am not sure, I never had it clarified in NSW.

The author asks some complex questions about who to blame

but they turn out to be merely rhetorical questions to support his leanings

because he squarely blames "Victorian socialists".

This rant is exactly the kind of rubbish that the Australian edition of the UK based Spectator Magazine specializes in. Mostly an exercise in straw-man arguments.

Covid has infinite patience and will find a way in whatever any gov't, of any political colour, does or doesn't do. Of course the politics will be fully played out and there'll be inquiries over each outbreak that points the finger, recommending, exonerating, all for no change to the ultimate outcome.

Yawn.

The bottom line is, the Daniel Andrews government introduced legislation that made the very top executives of any company entirely responsible for the death or injury of any worker, regardless of the circumstance of that death or injury. And that government mandated responsibility, included jail terms, extremely heavy fines, and even personal injury claims against the business's leadership, by the injured worker or their family.

Now, using exactly the same yardstick, the Andrews Labor government is directly responsible for the deaths of nearly 100 people because of their industrial level negligence and incompetence.

The same penalties which the Andrews government imposed upon their own businesses must be imposed up Denial Andrews himself, and every one of his responsible ministers, including whatever public service mandarins either planned or instigated the botched quarantine. They all must be held legally and criminally responsible.

I love this. A bunch of socialists hoist on their own petard. Talk about poetic justice.

Victorian employer organisations should be screaming their heads off in the media demanding that the same legal sanctions which the Andrews government imposed upon them, should be imposed upon the Andrews government.

Onya, ttbn

Donald A. Henderson was credited with ridding the world of smallpox and was, as a consequence, the 20th century's most acclaimed disease eradicator.

In 2006 he and a few like-minded scientists wrote a report for the Bush administration in response to what they considered to be bad advice given to that government in the handling of influenza pandemics.

The conclusion read...
"Experience has shown that communities faced with epidemics or other adverse events respond best and with the least anxiety when the normal social functioning of the community is least disrupted. Strong political and public health leadership to provide reassurance and to ensure that needed medical care services are provided are critical elements. If either is seen to be less than optimal, a manageable epidemic could move toward catastrophe."

Our manageable epidemic has become a catastrophe and the epicentre is Victoria.

I remember members on these very pages, tears of gratitude rolling down their cheeks, extolling the virtues of St Dan back when Victorian numbers were low. You don't hear that so much now.

A second wave was always gunna happen. And a third and a fourth, until we achieve herd immunity through community transfer or vaccine. The idea that the economy and the lives of the masses can just be put on hold while each wave passes was always wrong-headed.

But its now impossible for those who forced these disasters on us to back-track and so they just double-down without the slightest thought or concern for the irreparable damage they bring forth.

If Andrews were the CEO of some public company, he would have already been forced into resignation and ASIC/the Fed would be looking into what charges to lay. Luckily, for him, he's just a pollie.

Two hundred people have died in Victoria from the virus.

170,000 people have died in the US from the virtus.

Hmmm ........ what sort of penalties should the head honcho in each case have to face ?

Joe

It doesn't get any more stupid that that ! Why should Andrews cop the blame for the morons who are not heeding what he says many times a day. Don't hang out in groups at this stage !
He hasn't even been infected yet people blame him for the spreading ?? talk about stupid !
Blame those who deliberately spread COVID-19.

Individual. Hear, hear and well said Sir/Madam!
Aan B.

In Taiwan the deaths are around 7. Why no reporting? Oh does not fit the narrative and Governments never admit they are wrong.

"Two hundred people have died in Victoria from the virus.

170,000 people have died in the US from the virtus."

Well LM, I'll raise the point I've raised with you and others before because its so much fun to see you scurrying for cover when its asked.

St Dan is a head of a state government in a federation.
Trump is head of a federal government.

Why is it that in Australia you want to blame the state government for the high death toll, but in the US you want to blame the federal government?

Surely to be consistent you'd either want to blame Morrison (Australia) or Cuomo et al (The USA). Or does TDs mean consistence isn't an issue.

Too easy, Individual. Andrews and the Victorian Labor government legislated that the top executives of any company where a worker was injured or killed, were responsible regardless of the circumstances of the incident.

It did not even matter if the worker had broken every safety rule before being injured, the boss was still responsible, even if he was a hundred miles away.

The Andrews government must be held to the vry same standards they imposed upon the business community that pays the labor government the taxes it needs to buy votes. Anything else is hypocrisy and a clear double standard. Especially so when it is remembered that it was self evident government bungling and looking after their union mates which was entirely responsible for over 100 deaths.

Mhaze,

I suppose one main difference between the handling of the situations here and in the US is that Morrison has been coordinating policy closely with state and territory governments, while in the US it's a dog's breakfast of conflict between levels of government.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are no communications between the national government and its 'leader', and the governors of many of the states - that many of them are forced to work issues out for themselves, and coordinating, say, procurement of PPS between themselves, rather than working closely with Washington.

Hence the huge differentiation in case numbers and deaths between Australia and the US. It probably doesn't help that the nominal leader of the US couldn't organise a two-seater.

Joe

Hi Joe

Agreed. As well as Trump's leadership failure to coordinate the response with the States is Trump's politically driven disconnect from REALITY and from MEDICAL ADVICE:

Hence Trump's egomaniacal delay in taking COVID-19 seriously led many who wanted to LIVE having no choice but to DIE.

Up to March 31, 2020 Trump uttered such Citizen Eradicating predictions as http://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/politics/trump-coronavirus-statements/ dated March 31, 2020

“We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.” CNBC interview Jan. 22

“Looks like by April, you know, in theory, when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.” New Hampshire rally Feb. 10

“The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. … Stock Market starting to look very good to me!” Twitter Feb. 24

“It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.” News conference, Feb. 27

“I think the 3.4 percent [[confirmed] fatality rate] is really a false number.” Fox News interview, March 4

“The Fake News Media and their partner, the Democrat Party, is doing everything within its semi-considerable power ... to inflame the CoronaVirus situation.” Twitter, March 9

“We’re prepared, and we’re doing a great job with it. And it will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.” March 10

“This is a very contagious virus. It’s incredible. But it’s something that we have tremendous control over.” News conference, March 15

“America will again, and soon, be open for business — very soon — a lot sooner than three or four months that somebody was suggesting.” News conference, March 23

“I don’t believe you need 40,000 or 30,000 ventilators. You know, you go into major hospitals sometimes they’ll have two ventilators, and now all of a sudden they’re saying, ‘Can we order 30,000 ventilators?’” Fox News interview, March 26

With this killer of a President who needs terrorists!?

Hi Pete,

So how many 9/11s do 170,000 deaths (so far) equate to ? Nearly 67: one for each state and US territory, and a dozen or so extra.

Under Trumpf's leadership, this should increase to around 76 9/11s by this year's 9/11.

With at least another three equivalent 9/11 tragedies each week, Trumpf could round out his presidency with at least one hundred 9/11s on his eternal record.

God. Only 78 days to go, and then we can wake from our nightmare ........

Joe

Loudmouth2 got it right I think.
Imagine trying to manage a committee of 53 members !
No wonder it failed !

With this killer of a President who needs terrorists!?
plantagenet,
what a stupid, ignorant thing to say. If you had an ounce of sense you'd refer to the BLM's, not the POTUS !

Giddy indiv

Here's a Randy Rainbow song - Trump's "Spoonful of Clovox" special cure

just for You http://youtu.be/DPDPzbLFeP4

plantagenet,
Are you the limp-wristed Gay bar loiterer singing ? I mean, suggesting that the Donald suggested to drink cleaning materials ?
It's like you saying people can keep Covid-19 at bay by eating rubber gloves & face masks.
There's a limit in the degree of stupidity you can fall back on in desperation. You're overstepping it !

Individual,

My doctor told me - and I've heard it from a couple of other people -that the rate of disinfectant poisoning shot up in the US after that half-wit Trumpf made his 'sarcastic' remark. Trumpf wouldn't understand sarcasm if it bit him on the arse: he meant it seriously.

And it seems, neither would you :)

Joe

loudmouth2,
there's a huge differnce between some sarcasm & plain stupidity. Can you tell them apart ?

"Trump calls out New Zealand’s 'terrible' Covid surge, on day it records nine new cases"

Lol.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/18/trump-calls-out-new-zealands-big-surge-on-day-it-records-nine-covid-cases

Ha Ha !
I think that those posters here and commentators did not understand
Trumps sarcasm. They took it seriously when it was sarcasm and for
sarcasm when it was serious and just did not know what it was when it was serious.
That difficulty is probably a symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Dear Bazz,

Oh that did get a belly laugh.

It is the default position of your cult that you repeatedly tag his idiocy as sarcasm.

It seems you are having to do it more and more frequently of late.

You really think such a dumb oaf of a man who is fighting for his electoral life would be capable of spending any air time on sarcasm?

The man has others around the world feeling pity for the US. His incompetence, venal behaviour and corruption are all coming home to roost and you will forever be branded as one of those who drank the coolaid.

Well All; notice Steele's jump on !
He really didn't get it !

Hi Joe

Re your:

"God. Only 78 days to go, and then we can wake from our nightmare ........
Joe

Posted by loudmouth2, Monday, 17 August 2020 8:39:01 PM"

UNFORTUNATELY, and unlike Australia, the US has no nationwide apolitical Electoral Commission

to prevent the low lives - like Trump - from cheating.

Trump can bribe and threaten the vulnerable 50 State electoral administrations and key Congressman into a rigged election for Trump.

Dirt on Biden, Harris and Swing/Battlegound/Toss Up Districts/Congressman can again be collected by Russian and Wikileaks HACKING.

So even if Biden is 7.7% ahead in the polls - see http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_biden-6247.html

Trump may only need to win a majority of "Toss Up" States/Districts/Electoral Votes - they are colored Brown here http://www.270towin.com/ States to win overall.

Cheers

Pete

Gawd, it is starting to look like we are in for another four years of
"We Were Cheated" no matter who wins.

A private security guard has been found to have contracted Covid-19 while working in hotel quarantine in Sydney. Is the author, Ken Phillips willing to throw around the same unsubstantiated innuendos against the NSW Liberal government as he has done with the Victorian government. Me thinks not.

Does Phillips believe members of the NSW government should be charged over the shambolic response to the Ruby Princess, another case of industrial manslaughter? Of course not! Can't expect much from a bloke who fronts an organisation that represents tax dodgers, and law breakers.

Bazz,

Here's a thought, comparing Andrews and Trumpf's performances in relation to the Covid-19 virus:

* Andrews seems to be getting on top of this second wave, with daily case numbers coming down, and a vigorous drive to trace and track any new cases, as well as a determined effort to reduce the number of deaths back to zero;

* while more US states have tried to reduce the daily number of cases and deaths, given that their 'leader' is more interested in golf, the daily number of deaths keeps rising, and is now around 1,100. (compared to Victoria's twenty). Now that the cases and deaths in the US are now more likely to be out in the rural areas, away from appropriate health services, the daily death rate may not really decline for some time yet;

*. with 170,000 deaths already against his leadership, Trumpf looks like going to the November 3 election with another 80-100,000 deaths on what passes for his conscience, to a total of 250-270,000 American deaths. By Inauguration Day in late January next year, this could have risen by another 100,000, to 350,000 American deaths; so President Biden will have an enormous job to bring it down once he's actually taken charge, to impose yet another unpopular and broader lock-down and suppress the virus - subject of course to a vaccine being devised.

So Trumpf may go down in history as the president who played golf while he watched 350,000 Americans die. I wonder if he could be found guilty of any crime against his own people ?

Joe

the president who played golf while he watched 350,000 Americans die.
loudmouth2,
They sound more like suicide jockeys if you include the BLM crowds in these numbers !

Perhaps it would have been better if he kept playing golf !
At least they could not have then blamed him.

No it is all silly. The corvic action was not his area anyway.
Same as here it is a state responsibility.
Perhaps he should have stepped in when it escalated.
Then they could have blamed him.
Face it, no one but no one can say with certainty what is the best
way to tackle the virus.
The lunatics have taken over the USylum.

Four the next four or eight years we will be bored stiff with conspiracy
theories about how the election was won or lost.
I got bored with it all last time so I am in good practice in ignoring it.

Dear Bazz,

Did Trump disband the White House Pandemic Response Team set up under Obama or didn't he?

"When President Trump took office in 2017, the White House’s National Security Council Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense survived the transition intact. Its mission was the same as when I was asked to lead the office, established after the Ebola epidemic of 2014: to do everything possible within the vast powers and resources of the U.S. government to prepare for the next disease outbreak and prevent it from becoming an epidemic or pandemic.

One year later, I was mystified when the White House dissolved the office, leaving the country less prepared for pandemics like covid-19."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/nsc-pandemic-office-trump-closed/2020/03/13/a70de09c-6491-11ea-acca-80c22bbee96f_story.html

White House Pandemic Response Team
SteeleRedux,
They obviously were of no use & just a massive drain on valuable resources i.e. part of that 'swamp'.
After all, isn't that something the medical world has already its hands on ?

Individual,

You've got a point there: why spend any money on committees and staff and equipment that may not be used ?

I went for a country drive on the weekend and you know what ? For miles and miles and miles, I didn't see another vehicle ! Not one ! What a waste of road ! I was trying to work out how much all that waste would have cost, perhaps many millions. All for nothing.

Wouldn't it be easier to build only bits of road, the bits that people are using, and save taxpayers like you those millions ?

Joe

loudmouth2,
I have suggested on several occasions if stupidity, particularly on the Left side of things, were to be made a criminal offence, lots of money could be made from the fines !

Indy, and think of the waste on aged welfare, if we cut it out then us taxpayers could save about $20 billion a year. Its money down the drain.

Paul1405,
How'd you feed yourself then ? Rely on the young progressives to pamper you ?
Let's start with your Public Service Pay or Welfare as it would be more aptly named.
Ah, don't forget to change your name to Twiggy in week or so !

Individual,

Not to mention the cost of having a BoM when it doesn't even rain ! Why can't the BoM be employed only when it looks like rain, then put on hold ? Paid only on the basis of piece-work, or by results ? Most of them are only bureaucrats anyway. Or academics, which is worse.

And what is it with tides ?! Why can't they just go up and down once a day, instead of wasting energy doing it twice ? Better still, stay flat ?

So much stupidity in the world ! And we're paying for it !

Joe

. ..stay flat ?
loudmouth2,
What, like you do ? Nah, you'd better get ready for those fines. I trust you can get overtime to manage the payments.