"The West signed its own death warrant, in effect."

That says it all. Stupid Wetern politicians posing as leaders.

And:

"The Western dupes all fell for the meme that if China went capitalist, it would also go liberal. What idiocy, right there", along with:

The "West's forelock tugging to globalisation theory".

Who should we really blame? China for being what China is, a "big thug"? Or the corrupt halfwits we keep voting for out of habit?

One thing we can do quite easily is to legislate immediatley to stop ex-ministers and top public servants from becoming money-grossing compardors for Chinese corporations, and for all foreign corporations, for a period of five years, as they do in Britain and the USA.
This would also kill the self-enriching syndrome now so well embeddd in our current crop of pollies. One ex-minister as I recall actually acted, when Minister, in the interest of one Chinese corporation. Not sure if any payola was received in due course.
The problem is that many Ministers, taking the cue from their recent predecessors, are probably preparing for the gold that awaits them, right now.
Imagine how Alexander Downer, scion of a dynasty, stooped to the consultant lure of Woodside Burmah. Is money the only thing we care about?
Money, the obession with it, is the poison coursing through our polity.
Corporate China is about making money, making China strong and big, to ward off any attempt by the West to humiliate it with another hundred years of oppression.
As indicated, why are our pollies, our many money-focussed apologists so traitorous?

People are just waking up to the extent that they have been manipulated by the Chinese and their own politicians, bureaucrats and business leaders.

As one Chinese business woman in Sydney was overheard saying several years ago: "Aren't the Australians dumb!" Yes lady they sure are.

Chek

You don't say much here, but when you do, as with your comment, you are exactly on the mark.
Self interested politicians are a curse. There is no historical precedence with the latest group of political swill, as the pathology of greed follows a text long long ago written into their DNA.
There a type. It's a club with exclusive membership.

It can be quite refreshing though, when the club membership is transgressed by the ordinary. Jacque Lambie, Pauline Hanson, Bob Katter, to name a few.

As for China and it's hold over the world, freely given by the above, for thirty pieces of silver; the Mr and Mrs ordinary immediately recognised the danger which has now materialised forty years ago.

Politicians have been aware of the danger of all eggs in the one Chinese basket, equally as long. They are the traitors of this Country on many fronts.

All immigration from China and Hong Kong, should be stopped immediately, while a person by person assessment of every Chinese immigrant is revisited!

Dan

I don't think Albanese could win a two-man race against a bloke on crutches. Nevertheless, for me, China is a key reason that Labor is unelectable.

And I say that as a usual Labor voter. Umm, except for those 30 years after November 1975, when I stayed off the electoral roll in utter disgust.

Good article although the obvious thing omitted was China's cheap energy thanks to Australia. They continue to build dozens of coal fired power stations while forcing our electricity prices sky high while importing their unreliable useless solar panels and windfarms built from Australian materials. You could easily add Turnbull and Bishop to your list of Australian 'enablers'.

runner,

Do get the feeling that the average Australian citizen has been conned and that it is the average Australian citizen who will pay the price for the ineptitude of the dishonest and untrustworthy politicians, bureaucrats and business people who have selling us out to the Chinese over the past 30 years?

Globalisation was not China’s invention. It was born from the greed of Western corporations who saw huge profits to be made in exploiting cheap overseas labour. The fact it’s brought about the demise of Western manufacturing is not China’s fault. It’s the price of our own greed and stupidity.
The US and the UK are by far Australia’s largest foreign investors. Chinese investment in Australia comprises a mere 2%. There is no risk whatever of Australia being bought out by China.
It was John Howard who saw profit in overseas students and ramped up their numbers, as he did in bringing in cheap overseas labour. The influx of Chinese students resulted through Australia wanting to capitalise on the high fees we charged them, not through any predatory action on China’s part.
China is not the military aggressor the world needs to fear. How many countries has China invaded? It hasn’t used largescale force in four decades. It has a few military bases. The US has around 800. It has 400 surrounding China. It sends its ships and drones into Chinese territory with impunity. And we have the nerve to threaten China over its understandably defensive build-up in the South China Sea.
There’s a lot of irrational and hysterical anti-Chinese fear-mongering reverberating around in this quaint little echo chamber!

Labor is looking rotten again, with one of its multicultural politicians being raided and investigated by ASIO for his suspected ties to China, pretty much proven by his recent pro-China rant.

Bronwyn,

You are wrong about the origin of globalisation.

It actually started in 1571. And China was one of the two principal players in its beginnings.

Western capitalism didn't take off for another two centuries.

China's annexation and militarisation of the South China Sea is an act of predatory expansion. It was not done to extend China's defence system.

China has been using non-military forms of taking control of other countries: cyber hacking, the One Belt Initiative, collaborative politicians, bureaucrats and business people, and what might be a rudimentary biological device if the WuFlu turns out to be genetically modified SARS (which I heard is the case.)

Your comments beg the question Why are you apologising for China? Are you Chinese yourself or in the pro-China camp like some others on OLO like LOUDmouth, maze, Shadow Minister, etc?

Bronwyn,

Did you see this news item:

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/bizarre-moment-a-journalist-for-chinese-state-owned-media-sparks-a-scuffle-at-prime-minister-scott-morrisons-press-conference-in-canberra-before-suddenly-disappearing/ar-BB160DGF

Is this an example of what you say is "a lot of irrational and hysterical anti-Chinese fear-mongering"?

In this particular case it seems it was alright for Chinese journalists to take photos of Australian journalists but not alright when the Australian journalists turned the cameras on the Chinese journalists.

I think you need to take a reality check.

Hear, hear and well said, Bronwyn. And my Eurasian kids say thank you. Some of the nicest people I know and some of my very best friends have been and are Chinese.

Was laying in a hospital bed, with a broken wrist, broken femur and five spinal fractures. Couldn't feed myself for quids. when a Japanese Lady visiting her husband came over and without being asked, lifted my head and fed me.

Others assisted financially when I was in a hole and others assisted me in my, Mature age student, studies. And the set of help that came without hesitation! And impossible to forget!

Asians are not better nor worse than any other culture, just some of the leadership is a bit ordinary! Or just dumb!

The virus showed us the way forward, and a safer freer world by cooperation and helping when we can!

We've had two world wars and there were only losers! Confrontation between nuclear-armed opponents, is a zero-sum game. Even so, we need to be a nuclear power to assure mutual destruction on the part of any who think we can be taken in a nuclear attack.

As long as there are nuclear weapons, this should be part of our rational until we start to burn up all the weapons-grade plutonium in the world, in MSR's And as we do so, usher in a thousand years peace! And unprecedented, universal prosperity.

Always providing we can eliminate the predatory parasital drones from our economic models, who are served by the some old, same old business as usual and greed is good, individualism.

I use Grammarly because My eyesight isn't what it was. Ok?

Hasbeen. I shouldn't worry old chap, it's not you paying for any of it, or even your current income stream, just future, as yet unborn generations!
Alan B.

Alan B.,

Would you like to offer an apology for the behaviour of the Chinese journalists at Scott Morrison's media conference yesterday? See the article in my last post above.

And while you're at it how about apologising for its annexation of the South China Sea and HK and its unleashing of the WuFlu pandemic.

Alan, there is a big poster somewhere with a smiling emperor Xi pointing right at you that says "China needs YOU!"

You might even get a dinner invitation from Andrew Forrest and the boys.

The silly Chinese reporter ensured that she was going to be filmed right up to her departure from the scene. They really know nothing about our culture.

In February, ASIO director-­general Mike Burgess said “the level of threat we face from foreign espionage and interference activities is currently unprecedented — it is higher now than it was at the height of the Cold War".

Chinese law requires all companies and individuals to co-­operate with the intelligence estab­lishment and to hide their co-operation. That, combined with the Chinese regime’s unrelenting cyber and human-source spying on our parliament, political parties, government departments, universities and businesses, is reason enough to conclude that foreign investment from China must be subject to the most stringent ­national security test.

China now claims most of the South China Sea, which holds about $4 trillion worth of oil and gas reserves, marine resources and islands. This, despite a finding of illegality in The Hague. The rest of world just sits back and watches.

I do not see ASIO or the Morrison government deliberately exaggerating attempted Chinese government infiltration of our political system or spying activities in Australia. The fact that China is imposing economic sanctions on Australia will not win any votes for the Morrison government. And thats exactly what the Chinese have been attempting, bullying and coercion by economic means to make us into a sycophantic satellite. Morrison needs to stand firm and what i have seen of him so far I believe he will. China needs us more than we need them.

I like this one:

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/the-secret-role-of-chinese-news-agencies-in-australia-revealed-how-state-sponsored-media-which-made-headlines-when-a-woman-caused-a-bizarre-scuffle-at-scott-morrisons-press-conference-before-disappearing-is-reporting-on-more-than-just-facts/ar-BB1625NK

Part-time staffer in the office of Labor MP Shaoquett Moselmane (now being investigated by ASIO and the Federal Police), 'John' Zhang, in 2014 announced on a blog that China's political influence on Australia would be strengthened by having an Australian politician like Moselmane as a "friend".

All Australia's fault, of course. Nothing to do with the disloyalty of a multi-culti and the sainted Chinese Communist Party, as some posters would have us believe.

ttbn,

I think everyone on OLO knows where I stand when it comes to China.

How many years have I been trying to warn people about China's real intentions?

How many Chinese migrants have been planted in Australia by the CCP over the past 30 years with the objective of growing a pro-China segment of the population?

We have even put a Chinese migrant with affiliations to the CCP into federal parliament.

As I keep telling everybody what that Chinese businesswoman said: "Aren't the Australians dumb!"

And now we are all paying for that dumbness!

We need to become less reliant on China and far more self-reliant.

We need to start to make what we need here, as Australian made. And get rapid rail off of the drawing board and on the ground as an operating travel option! And put the second Sydney airport back on paper for the foreseeable future!

To that end, we need affordable reliable energy and to take a leaf out of those Australian operations that have incorporated automation and now outperform China as a manufacturer of goods. Yes, we do have one or two here in Oz, already.

We'd have many more if the energy bills were no longer higher than the wages bill (MSR THORIUM) and more than double what we can now do, if those new operations are employee-owned and operated co-ops.

This paradigm will ensure two very important things. that the total costs of the start-up will be the lowest possible as will be, the forward operating costs!

Moreover, there will be no union involvement or necessity! Plus the best possible wages and conditions. Many current operations will go to the wall or survive as a partnership between the employer and employees, with the latter as the controlling senior partner.

Funding and facilitation as simple as the stroke of a minister's pen.

The Great Depression resulted in, for that time, huge comparative debt. That debt simply disappeared without much ado with renewed economic activity and a period of unprecedented growth and prosperity.

And given they stood almost alone as the only, free-market, private enterprise, business model, that survived the Great Depression largely intact, co-ops contributed to that very result vastly more than anything or anyone else did or could have!

And requires of us that the usual debt possessed bean counters be sidelined once again, least their fear-based immobility (rabbit in spotlight) wreaks a good recovery!

Do all the above! And we may not have to import any manufactured goods from anywhere/anyone? And would mean we'd once again, export more than we import and become, once again, a creditor nation, not debtor one!
Alan B

Mr Opinionated
Not that I’m answerable to you in any way, but no, I’m not pro Chinese or pro any other country. What I am strongly against though is unsubstantiated xenophobic scare-mongering, of which you appear to be a master.
There is no evidence whatever to prove that the Chinese government is engaged in cyber hacking and Scott Morrison’s clumsy attempt to implicate the Chinese leadership was nothing more than baseless and diversionary mud-throwing.
The Belt and Road Initiative is not about taking control. It’s a co-operative transnational venture based on mutual trade, infrastructure building and cultural exchange. It will provide much-needed opportunities for large numbers of countries left behind in the winner-takes-all Western globalisation which has dominated world trade for the last four decades.
No one knows the exact origins of the latest Coronavirus pandemic. As far as we know at this stage, it first surfaced in a Wuhan market, but that doesn’t mean it originated there. We still don’t know what country it came from or whether it originated in animals or in a laboratory. You are out of order in implying China deliberately manipulated and unleashed this virus. You have no proof whatever and besides what country would be stupid enough to release biological warfare on its own people?
You’re the one who needs a reality check, not me. You need to let go of your reds-under-the-beds nonsense and start researching a little more widely.

Indian citizens are fighting back against China, in the streets, calling for boycotts against Chinese goods.

In Australia, we go out on the streets to demonstrate against ourselves! BLM rubbish and 'racism', neither of which has anything to do with most of us.

The Indian government has cancelled three deals, worth $600 million with China. China is on India's border. What will the Australian government do as China threatens our border from PNG, Fiji, Vanuatu and the Pacific? They are not saying. Still mesmerised.

Mr. Opinion,

Bronwyn is nobody, and most unlikely to be of any use to China as a stooge given her obvious naivety and lack of education on China and the CCP. Waffling about xenophobia, when the Chinese, not just the Communist government, have had racism and the superiority of their own race banged into them for three millenia. Unless our government grows a backbone soon we, including all the simple little Bronwyns, will experience the Chinese way first hand.

Hi Bronwyn,

Welcome to the forum.

Glad to have another female joining the ranks of
contributors.

A 2017 report by the ANU's National Security College
edited by former diplomat and intelligence analyst Prof.
Rory Medcalf argued that the perceptions of Australia's
dependence on China and vulnerability to Chinese economic
pressure were exaggerated.

Prof. Medcalf said:

"The nature of our economic relationship means there are
limits to the pressure China can apply without imposing
sizeable costs on itself".

"Pressure that would have the biggest impact on our
economy such as threatening to restrict the iron-ore
trade would likely be a "one-shot" option for Beijing
doing serious harm to that link thereafter".

" After all Chinese attempts at economic coercion
against other countries have often back fired in the long run".

Then we have Prof. James Laurenceson, Director of the
Australia-China Relations Institute at the University of
Technology Sydney telling us that he believed the current
dispute would stay "confined to the diplomatic realm".

That it would not spill over to the economic side of the
China-Australia relationship which benefits both countires.
That makes sense.

When it comes to resources China has few other options
apart from Australia. When it comes to tourism and
education - it's not like the government has a direct
lever it can pull. It can seek to influence Chinese
public opinion but Chinese households get their
information from multiple sources. They aren't all just
reading the People's Daily.

Laurenceson argues that Australia's position as a
professional destination for Chinese students would likely
be more affected by racially motivated anti-Chinese acts -
such as the assault of 2 Chinese students in Melbourne
apparently linked to COVID -19, then by disagreements
between ambassadors and ministers.

Interesting times we live in.

I've been here before, Foxy, but thanks anyway! I remember you as one of the more enlightened and fair-minded members of this forum ... nice to see nothing's changed!

Thank You Bronwyn.

I do remember you now.

Sorry, my memory isn't what it was.

Anyway, glad that you're back.

Bronwyn,

Your last set of comments tell me that you don't have much in the way of knowledge about humankind, particularly history and sociology.

If this was the 1930s I would be in the group telling people that Germany and Japan were intent on war and conquest and you would be in the group telling us that Chamberlain would sort it out and that Japan would never attempt to invade Australia.

Mr O,

If this was the 1930s you might well be doing what
you claim.

However, the rest of us would be trying to cope
with the Great Depression by becoming self reliant,
tilling backyard gardens to grow food, and so on.
So that we would not suffer so badly.

Foxy,

You said: "When it comes to resources China has few other options apart from Australia."

I disagree with that. For one, China has one of the biggest deposits of coal in the world and can be self-sufficient in coal.

China is keeping its reserves for when the day comes that it has used up external sources and is forced to rely on its our reserves.

Basically, Australia has sold its entire natural gas reserves to China. Which means that Australia will be reliant on gas fracking on farmland to supply the local market - an environmental disaster! You need to put your thinking cap on.

In the end, China will have resources while Australia and its other suppliers have nothing.

If Australia refused to supply China with coal and gas it might force China to invade Australia in order for China to guarantee its source of Australian coal and gas. Japan justified its invasion of SE Asia on the grounds that it had to protect its supply of natural resources, particularly oil.

So don't get too smug about thinking China needs us more than we need China because all you are doing is inviting an invasion and enslavement of your beloved multicultural peoples who are living in a dreamworld. Do you want your descendants living under the yoke of Chinese masters?

Mr O,

I want Australia not to live under anyone's yoke.

But I don't believe that China has any intention of
wanting to wage war on us. Why should they. When they
can buy what they want.

Mr O, nonsense. Australia has not sold all its gas to China, we have huge reserves not utilised and developed yet. Regardless, we have contractual arrangements to sell to China amongst other countries, the gas is not "sold" until its shipped. Any start up of another cold war could well affect those contractual arrangements putting China between a rock and a hard place. There is no way they could run their economy on their own coal reserves, at current rates of coal consumption they have around 30 years of coal left including unproven reserves, also given that pollution and air quality is currently an enormous issue for them. They are well aware that they cannot continue to pollute their country on the massive scale they have previously.

China might not be able to get by without products other nations possess, but China controls 80% - 90% of the worlds supply of rare earth minerals, that the worlds militaries (and our mobile phones) rely upon.

http://www.mattcanavan.com.au/atlantic_council

Foxy, I think you are a bit naïve when it comes to China.

China is a real threat to the world, and virtually all nations in our region know it.

All authoritarian regimes are grubs, because no accountability allows those with power to do what they like.

The same would go in Australia and the USA if there was no legal framework to limit power and promote pluralism.

But Australians have finally woken from their slumber and see China for what it is.

China will never be a superpower, but a powerful nation supported by fellow authoritarian nations who see their salvation in controlling their people.

Chris Lewis

With respect, I suggest you're the naive one here. You’ve made a lot of sweeping statements. You’re doing a lot of demonising. And how much of it is based on evidence? Or have you merely jumped on the latest band wagon of creating an enemy where there isn’t one?

In exactly what way is China a real threat to the world? Yes, it’s an authoritarian state. And yes, it has a large population, a large land mass and a large economy. And yes, it’s engaging with the world to a greater extent than it has in its more recent past. But none of that in itself makes China a threat to world peace.

It can equally be argued that China’s presence in the world is actually a stabilising force and a much-needed counter-balance to US hegemony. The US might be a democracy, but it has arguably done far more to endanger the world than China ever has. The US is responsible for more than 50% of the world’s military expenditure. It has invaded or bombed dozens of countries since the end of WW2, while China has invaded one. The US military drops a bomb somewhere in the world around every twelve minutes. It has around 800 military bases in over 160 countries. The US has militarily occupied the globe in a way China has never sought to do.

The US has overthrown or attempted to overthrow dozens of foreign governments since WW2. It has imposed sanctions on countries posing little or no threat to anyone else and these sanctions have brought misery and death to millions of people. What gives the US the right to bully sovereign nations in this way? How many countries has China similarly attempted to bully into submission?

By all means, argue your case, but I’m sure it will carry far more weight in the minds of readers if you can do so without resorting to lazily labelling your critics as naive.

Bronwyn,

From your statements to Chris Lewis above I think everyone can see that you belong to the pro-China camp and that you are against the US.

You say you are not Chinese but the structure of your arguments indicate to me that you are either Chinese or in the pay of the Chinese because all you seem to be concerned with is protecting China from criticism at a time when China is threatening Australia with cyber attacks and trade restrictions to undermine our security and wellbeing.

If you watched TV news today you will have noticed that China has ramped up its attacks on Australia, accusing Australian diplomats and journalists in China of espionage and indicating that it might place them under arrest.

So it is looking more and more like the battle lines in a war of words are being drawn and you and LOUDmouth and Shadow Minister seem to have chosen to be in the pro-China camp.

ok, naive may be a word too strong. Sorry Foxy.

But, yes I am a communist China hater, and proud of it. my many efforts since 2009 have plenty of evidence, me think.

China an equal counter to the US?

Please Bronwyn, you need to explain that silly proposition.

All great powers will do their share of dirty work, but you can be sure Chinese hegemony, which will never happen (thank God), will be much worse.

and what is even more laughable is that China would never have prospered without the help of the US through freer trade.

That concept is alien to authoritarian China which shows no sign of liberalising its economy in the same way that western countries have.

anyway, we can have our opinions, but China is rightfully being opposed by more and more nations.

End of story really.

jimmy2shoes,

I didn't say "sold all its gas to China,

I said "sold its entire natural gas reserves to China".

There is still gas but it is not part of our gas reserves: that natural gas which can be economically extracted.

Semantics you say; the gas reserves are gone to China I say.

Dear Chris,

Over two centuries ago, Napoleon commented that
China was "a sleeping giant, and when she wakes
she will shake the world".

Much the same could be said today.

China has well over a billion inhabitants - over
a fifth of all humanity - it's the most populous
society on earth.

And of course the West is not dealing with 1.3 billion
Chinese citizens and human beings. The country is run
by the Chinese Communist Party which controls almost
every facet of life for everyone there.

So yes, Australia has to look after its own interests
and watch its step in what it does for the good of the
nation. We have to adhere to our own values. But that
also applies to our dealings with other countries as well.
We need to weigh up what's in our interests and what is
not.

I think that China is pragmatic, lavishly praising
communist ideals but much more interested in immediate
results. It seems to be embarked on the path to
industrialization and modernization. However it is still
determinedly authoritarian.

It will be interesting to see how far the country will
stray from the socialist path and whether economic
liberalization will in turn lead to political
democratization.

Given China's size and potential, its economic future will
be of world-historical significance.

Mr O,

Your personal attacks are quite concerning.

Any you're coming across not as a good debater but as
a narrow-minded person who's not interested in discussion
but is looking for a fight and arguments.

I'm most surprised. I expected more from you considering
your proclaimed educated background.

Try again. Minus the insults.

Mr O,

BTW: Bronwyn is not Chinese. I've known Bronwyn for
a long time.

And as far as being in the pay of the Chinese?
That borders on extremism - fanaticism.

I'd never have picked you for that.

Foxy,

If you think things are getting a bit out of hand here then just take a look at the level it has now reached in the US with this news item form today's al jazeera:

http://www.aljazeera.com/ajimpact/cold-war-china-trade-dispute-deepening-200629020234625.html

And this is the sort of situation that might just put Trump back in the White House for another term.

I think your friend Bronwyn has a vested interest in the Chinese, along with LOUDmouth and Shadow Minister.

Sorry, Foxy, I cannot share your optimism about authoritarian China.

neither do the people of Vietnam, India, Hong Kong, or Taiwan, for a start.

Tell them why they should be optimistic about China.

Dear Chris,

It's a risky business predicting any future at
the best of times of course, but I am hopeful
that with China - industrialisation and modernisation
will bring about political change as well.

My parents fled from a totalitarian regime - the
Soviet Union. So I can understand your fears.
But I don't share them.

I have trust in our government to make the
right decisions concerning our nation

Mr O,

Are we all to blame if we like Chinese food, or go to
$2.00 shops, or buy cars that are made in China?
Even many of our clothes, and footwear, not to mention -
residential developments that are springing up everywhere.

Why on earth should the Chinese invade us?

They're already controlling a large part of our economy.

Perhaps what you should be doing instead of posting here
is contacting Canberra regarding your concerns.

Foxy,

Bon idee!

I'll contact Gladys Liu tomorrow cc Andrew Forrest.

Alright, which one of you lot left his or her compass, maps and other assorted spy paraphernalia lying around in Beijing.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-29/chinese-state-media-says-australia-is-stepping-up-spy-activities/12402032

You can pick it up at the Beijing Spy Prison next time you are there. And you should hurry because

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-30/china-step-up-attacks-on-australia-accuses-government-of-spying/12405842

That's right, this is only the start of worse things to come.

Mr O,

So, instead of contacting Canberra to air your concerns
about the Chinese you said you were going to contact -
Gladys Liu or Andrew Forrest instead.

No. in that case you'd be better off contacting:

Ambassador Cheng Jingye
Embassy of the People's Republic of China
15 Coronation Drive
Yarralumla ACT 2600

Tel: (02) 6228-3998

Or your local Chinese take-away.

Your choice.

Foxy,

Good suggestion because I have heard that Ambassador Cheng Jingye is not as dim as he sims.

And I promise not to tell him that it is your spy paraphernalia they confiscated in Beijing and that your real name is Foxy Mata Hari. Your secrets are safe with me.

Mr O,

Yes, the Ambassador is a sweet soy bean, depending on
his mood. He can be hot and sour, but he's no chicken,
and will have you fried and steamed, if you don't answer
his awkward questions to his satisfaction.

As for my being Foxy Mata Hari?

No. "I don't want to be a silly temptress.
I cannot see any sense in getting dressed up and doing
nothing but tempting men ..." (Greta Garbo).

Foxy,

Back to more serious issues.

I assume you have seen the news reports coming out of China where the CCP is using its state run media to escalate tensions between China and Australia with the aim of making Australia look like an aggressive enemy in the eyes of the Chinese people.

This is interesting because about a decade ago Niall Ferguson predicted that this would happen if China's economy was threatened by externalities, in this case the backlash from the WuFlu pandemic with major countries around the world turning away from China. The point Ferguson made was that the CCP would take China down the road to war with universal support of its people in a very similar way that Japan went in the 1930s.

I think we are seeing the start of this and the question is now how far will it go? Are we looking at a hot war or a cold war?

Mr O,

Niall Ferguson warned that a new cold war is coming
between the US and China.

But he also said that Australia should not worry.

There are enough people who don't want China running
the Pacific.

Americans have a coherent reason to contain China and
a means of doing it. Starve it of technology and force
it deeper into the middle income trap it already faces.

As for Australia? As Ferguson stated,

"Even a middle-income China is still a great market.
And why would you want China to be vastly bigger."

See you on another discussion. For me this one has run its
course.

Foxy,

You reckon the US would "starve it [China] of technology and force it deeper into the middle income trap it already faces." (Whatever the middle income trap means.)

The US tried something similar with Japan in the 1930s viz embargo on oil supplies to Japan to thwart Japanese military ambitions in Asia.

And look what happened: It forced Japan into the Second World War.

Yeah so go on, keep poking a stick at the angry beast until it lashes out. So much for your Kumbaya singalongs when that happens.

Mr O,

Again, mind your manners.

Or you shall be subsequently ignored.

There is a lot of ugliness, very visible, in Chinese culture. But we want to retain our humanitarian standard, so we feel it unhumanitarian to see China as it has historically been and neglect observing the ugliness and pretend that China is fine and will turn to liberalism with economic development. (But we went into the Chinese market for money, not from our altruistic motive.)

"It is not China's fault...Americans do not see the obvious, so clearly visible, in China, perhaps to save their Christian moralistic narcissim because it is so ugly," as I said in my comment, It Is Not China's Fault, nov. 16, 2015, on Michael Pillsbury/The Hunred-Year Marathon, amazon usa

"Chinese feelings of cultural superiority are monumental, deriving as they do from a three thousand year tradition (Edwin O. Reischauer, The Japanese)." (E. O. Reischauer was appointed ambassador to Japan by President Kennedy.)

Everything is gigantic in China. Elites had gigantic political power, gigantically exploiting a gigantic number of masses, as they do in China today. A gigantic wealth accrued to gigantic political power. The masses suffered gigantically, but elites were gigantically indifferent. Gigantic political power required a gigantic ideology or a gigantic lie. The trouble with China is that the Chinese people themselves do not believe anything but gigantic, as I said in my comment, American Humanism, on Chinese Comfort Women, amazon usa.

There are only three Confucian societies in the world. Pick out three from the below: China, Japan, Korea and Vietnam.

The answer is China, Korea and Vietnam. Korean culture is more Confucian than Chinese culture is.

Japanese immigrants most swiftly assimilate themselves to American mainstream culture but Chinese and Koreans do not.
Two and two make four in Japan, but accorging to Jeffrey Wasserstrom/China In The 21st Century: What Everyone Needs To Know, two and two are five, a Chinese logic. 2 + 2 can be any numbers but not four.

Some years ago, when French pig raising industry was losing competitivenss to Chinese, a middle-aged Frenchwoman said to NHK (a Japanese BBC) that she would buy French pork; she said it did not matter that French pork was expensive. There is much wisdom in her opinion. The world is not flat; it is full of cultural and political convexities and concavities.

The economics theory of free trade is based on the empirically false idea that the world is filled with economic men whose explusively chief and principal concern is economic gain. (So much greed blinds us to the plainly false fact. We love money so much.)
The British propounded free trade in the middle of the nineteenth century and the Americans after the World War II, both as a theory of economics and a theory of international peace.

China has little changed historically in terms of world view and foreign relationship. It was an autarkical country; it had foreign trade but the size was small compared to the size of its gigantic domestic economy and mandarins took political care that its domestic stability should not be affected by trade.

Today China faces a radically changed international circumstance in spite of its internal unchangedness; it cannot afford to be self-subsistent; it has got to conduct business with the outside world. Unless it engages in foreign trade its economy should dwindle sharply and markedly.

The question is why has the free world got to keep China engaged in the so-called free trade system, endowing it with economic profits so that it can challenge liberal world order? Are we afraid of losing a big market for our commodities at the expense of liberalism?
The economic liberalism of making products where they can be made at the least cost and selling them to the bidder of the highest price is no longer tenable. It needs to be modified.

Michi,

You ask why?

Simply because politicians, bureaucrats and business people are dishonest and untrustworthy and focused on their personal wealth and power.

We have democracy but we still don't have democracy. The autocrats have just been replaced by the oligarchs and the hoi polloi are still getting pushed around and disadvantaged. I assume you have read Animal Farm.