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Mandating the emergence of a vicious theocracy : Comments
By Gary Brown, published 29/8/2005Gary Brown argues we cannot remove the extremist poison at work in some Muslim communities.
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Posted by Timkins, Monday, 29 August 2005 12:50:33 PM
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Who appointed the christians to be the rulers of the world?
By training, financing and arming the Taliban the US has helped to create an orgainisation which it cannot control. By continuing to provide support for extremist movements both in the US and overseas, the US and its allies are ensuring that we can never have world peace. The US has never given peace a chance, the first option is to "send the marines". In spite of many instances showing that this is usually an expensive and unsuccessful policy the arms industry will ensure that it is the only policy. Posted by Peace, Monday, 29 August 2005 1:11:40 PM
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Gary,
As an oldie with a mature-age degree including honours, majoring in International Relations, it is so enlightening to read your essay. In Western Australia we are concerned about the state's only public newspaper having an editor who seems to support what most studious people like yourself are against. What is worrying myself and my wife are too many letters in the "West Australian" accusing academics of tunnel vision. As usual it was my discerning partner who suggested that maybe we need such tunnel vision to beam strongly onto world problems, especially in the Middle-East where our problem of Islamic terrorism lies today. According to most tunnel-visionaries, the problem is simply Neo-Colonialism - a return to Western economic and political banditry which us oldies thought had been done away with after the end of WW2. All we should have been left with was the expansion of Stalinism, not expecting after the end of the Cold War, that we would have corporatised greed and US missile diplomacy which is mainly the cause of the Islamic terrorism we now have. Yes, my wife was so right, such accurate tunnel vision is so much needed by all our Western leaders, including the need to rebuild our United Nations, remembering the warning by the German philosopher, Immanuel Kant, after he fell out with Napoleon after the conqueror declared himself Emperor. And so it was Kant who declared that from now on not one man nor one nation can be trusted to preserve liberty equality and fraternity. So tunnel-visionaries with minds on the job, would doubtless agree that Kant, also a great Christian, was so right, especially his suggestion of a global federation of nations, so much needed today to at least revive Kant's perception of preserving perpetual peace. Posted by bushbred, Monday, 29 August 2005 1:49:18 PM
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Flamin marvellous! So many,or nearly everyone and anyone, can see the type of dictatorial,corrupt & brutal governments that nearly all islamic nations have, bar perhaps Indonesia, Malaysia.
Yet many of these same people are apologists for 'our' moslems. These moslems are working to set up the same type of regimes here in Australia. At present, and they have spoken and written about it, it's the so-called fundamentalists of course. But the 'rank and file' moslems are not expressing any refutals at all. numbat Posted by numbat, Monday, 29 August 2005 3:12:14 PM
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Glad Gary is still writing but would prefer to see him write in the mainstream press. I disagree with his emphasis that attacks on Western civilian targets are a distortion of Islam. Not because Islam is inherently terrorist any more than Christianity but because Muslims have a different emphasis on their history and news than in the west. All countries like all individuals "see what they want and disregard the rest". Such events as a small boy being shot dead in his father's arms by Israeli troops may get a couple of shows in the west but much greater coverage in the Middle East. The root of terrorism is the history of Western involvment. Particularly the creation of Israel and the almost unquestioning support of Zionism. Bob Hawke being the best Israeli President Australia ever had What mandate did Labor have to tell Australian diplomats to encourage Muslim states to recognize Israel? How did that advance Australia's national interests? Even the Iraq/Iran and Iraq/Kuwait war was because a British bureaucrat drew the post war maps to exclude Iraq from a deap water port
Many muslims consider, with some justification, that there are injustices to be righted and scores to be settled. And Bush is doing everything that Ossama, if he is even still alive, wants him to do Posted by Abu Famir, Monday, 29 August 2005 4:17:25 PM
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The first Ottoman invasion of Vienna took place in 1529
100,000 Muslims at the gates. http://www.zum.de/whkmla/military/16cen/vienna1529.html The 2nd took place in 1683 http://www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/siege_of_vienna.htm 200,000 Muslims at the gates A difference in time of over a 100 yrs. Since world war II, 60 years has passed. (with Korea and Vietnam in between) I find it curious that people seem to think that we have almost ‘arrived’ now, and that war is something we should be immune to. Its worth bearing in mind, the the 2nd link above, is probably the ONLY reason (along with the battle of Tours in 732) why we are typing here in English rather than Arabic. Out of gratittude, we should enact a day of remembrance for Count Staremburgh, who gallantly drove away the Ottomans and saved Europe from a fate worse than death. Does any sane person seriously think the Islamic world has forgotten such a devastating defeat ? PEACE....give ‘it’ a chance ? I’m sorry, Peace is an idea, not a soldier. It does not protect countries. Every peace in the world today, is the outcome of a War. Do they actually think that the Islamic world has stopped coveting the wealth and territory of Europe ? It seems clear to me that the two prevailing themes running through the article and commentary on it, are 1/ Ignorance of History and 2/ Ignorance of Islam. Evidence. ? sure. suggesting that Islam is something other than its foundation documents and its so called prophet say it is. To suggest Islam is NOT seeking to unite its territories, rid itself of Western influence, choke off oil, and convert Dar Ul Hab into Dar Ul Islam is, to be quite frank, bordering on requiring institutionalization and dramatic re-education. At worst such ideas constitute a direct threat/5th column in this wonderfully free country. It might just be possible, that behind the posturing and public policy, however misconstrued it may seem, there lies an awareness of social and historical reality, that is totally over the heads of most who write to and comment on this forum ? Posted by BOAZ_David, Monday, 29 August 2005 9:02:48 PM
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IRAQ 2005
Upon the cadaver so grim will feast the pets of man And smell of death hangs low tonight Since corpus juris ran Apocrophylic dragons alight as on a limb Feet the shape of eagles claws Butchered flag of stars and stripes firmly clenched within upon the cadaver so grim will feast the pets of man and smell of death hangs low tonight another Vietnam raging fire with tempest hot no quenching by remorse dragon rythes and stumbles on schizophernic course upon the cadaver so grim will feast the pets of man and smell of death hangs low tonight protest it if you can spangled stars in blinkered sight stripes upon her back new dancing tunes to shackled feet are forced upon IRAQ upon the cadaver so grim will feast the pets of man and smell of death hangs low tonight within that wretched land Ancient gods of BABYLON Arise and take a stand Violence shakes the earth tonight Upon your sacred land Upon the cadaver so grim Will feast the pets of man And smell of death hangs low tonight The gods will take a stand Arise mercurous princes You valients of the past Sharpen up your axes and poison up your darts Upon the cadaver so grim will feast the pets of man And smell of death hangs low tonight Where peace should rule the land Arise oh noble spirits of antiquarians Invade the dreams of Infidel Who camp upon your land Upon the cadaver so grim will feast the pets of man And smell of death hangs low tonight The foeman is at hand Dark spirits of khthonios Athunder on your steed Plunder their nocturnal jewels Ferment them in their greed Upon the cadaver of FOE Will feast the pets of man Which smell of death hangs low tonight? Revenge must take a stand! Posted by diver dan, Tuesday, 30 August 2005 1:06:00 PM
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The excellent original article just about hit the nail on the head with regards to the Al Qaeda murderers and their political objectives.
While terrorists are likely to be speaking with a forked tongue whenever they subject the world to their diatribes, I would be in agreement that Bin Laden’s ultimate objective must be the re-establishment of a global Caliphate. I also agree that such a radical Muslim entity would be necessarily belligerent and expansionist, and thus unacceptable to the civilised world. However, the actions of Al Qaeda hardly appear to advance this primarily inward-looking theocratic crusade. I would have thought that the primary targets of a militant organisation seeking the creation of a paramount Islamic state would be the current governments of majority (and significant minority) Muslim countries. How does bombing London, Madrid or New York help create a fundamentalist superstate across the Muslim world? The west seems to have become a sort of bizarre fetish for the Islamists. Perhaps this is because of western involvement in the Middle East. Or maybe it has to do with western global leadership. Whichever, it is obvious that they hate us. That is pretty much all one needs to know about it Posted by BotanyWhig, Tuesday, 30 August 2005 11:31:21 PM
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29414-2005Jan22.html
But Osama bin Laden is not really a direct combatant anymore, but more of a celebrity type figure playing a “David and Goliath” game with the US. Discounting the rather suspect videos in which he has appeared, in interviews with various journalists, he has given a variety of often conflicting reasons why he has it out for the US.
In some interviews, he has said that Al-Qaida was responsible for 9/11, and in other interviews, he has said that Al-Qaida was not. In some interviews he has said that his anger with the US was because of Israel's oppression of the Palestinians, (which has been indirectly backed by the US), and in other interviews, he has said it was because of US military bases in Saudi Arabia.
Whatever.
Little of what Osama bin Laden says can be relied upon, although he is involved in anti-US propaganda. The US administration may even like to have him on the loose, to help provide a reason for their military presence in the Middle East (and it is rather ironic that the US military is now one of the largest consumers of petroleum products in the US).
The US has carried out quite a few atrocities in Iraq, (and in other countries), which now makes their case for “democracy” seem a little thin. It does appear that a third party will have to adjudicate shortly