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The Forum > Article Comments > The China Syndrome 2.0 > Comments

The China Syndrome 2.0 : Comments

By Ross Elliott, published 31/3/2020

Hush ups are still the order of the day, but this time it's China in the dock and it's our doctors and medical professionals gallantly chasing the truth.

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well written articlke, Thanks Ross.

MAIN message is we must learn a lot from this 'chai-na' led virus global crisis its time to rest the global clock both economically and politically. Some of the articles coming out of this shut-down induced crisis. (see last weeks https://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=20811).

The left media, ( NYtimes, Guardian, 'heir-BC' et al) have been feed us raw Chai-na propaganda, they too need to be held accountable after this crisis is on the way out in 6 months time!
Posted by Alison Jane, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 7:55:19 AM
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While we're getting the boot in China is the only major country increasing its coal consumption. Think about that as the next huge glacier slides into the sea. Coronavirus like SARS appears to be from animals normally not consumed by humans anywhere else. One bowl of bat soup (or whatever) could have lead to thousands of human deaths.

Nor do we have social credit or re-education camps for hundreds of thousands like the Uighurs. I believe part of the appeal of Australian university education for Chinese students was the chance to immigrate. Now that's looking shaky. The rise and rise of China could be self limiting.
Posted by Taswegian, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 8:04:19 AM
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China = lies, blackmail, threats, cheating, and menace. Let's move away, now.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 8:07:50 AM
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Amazon, ebay, etc. need to add a 'made in Australia/ USA' filter on product searches.
Posted by progressive pat, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 8:40:23 AM
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Australia needs to make itself affordable again in order to divorce from China.
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 8:42:32 AM
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individual,

That's right. First step is to blow up the stupidly high minimum wage, and get our 700,000 unemployed working. They have been idle long before the China virus, but our crazy politicians would rather import workers.

progressive pat,

Yes. But it's the price people look at, not where it's made.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 9:20:12 AM
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individual and ttbn,
The idea that Australia is uncompetitive is a myth. Before this crisis we were exporting more than we were importing.
Posted by Aidan, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 9:26:39 AM
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how the world ends its reliance upon China is a huge question.

After all, very few nations have in the last 10 to 15 years.

Australia being competitive in wage terms? yes, but competing with China would require slave live wages. as if Aussies are going to accept that.Even the Americans do not.

Great question to write about though, as i have for over ten years.

Pity no one ever does anything about it though.

Aussies suffer from being a very luck country with a lot of stuff in ground.
Posted by Chris Lewis, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 10:28:24 AM
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Dear Alison Jane,

You say; “The left media, ( NYtimes, Guardian, 'heir-BC' et al) have been feed us raw Chai-na propaganda, they too need to be held accountable after this crisis is on the way out in 6 months time!”

Bloody hell the loony rightwing fringe is really hitting its straps today. Utterly ignore the deluge of rightwing media which is being consumed daily you seem deeply affronted by the few sources of balance left in the media landscape. Stop being such snowflakes.

Did you really want your president to be allowed to say when asked about a possible pandemic in the US; “No. Not at all. And we have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.” Or to have PM Boris 'I shook hands with everybody' Johnson being permitted to downplay the virus for weeks to go unchallenged.

Just imagine what it would have been like if we only had compliant media of the type you are advocating. I will tell you what it would look like, China. Or in you boorish vernacular 'Chia-na'.

And this really is the rub isn't it. Hard rightwingers like yourself crave authoritarianism and this is the chance to have it more deeply imposed on our country.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 10:40:24 AM
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that is right, some of the right winger commentators are an absolute joke.

TBH, i would rather listen to the ABC if i had to choose out of Sky and the ABC.

Both have extreme bias, and both are supported by generosity.

in fact, i would say that the ABC would do much better than Sky if it had to rely on private sponsors
Posted by Chris Lewis, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 10:58:07 AM
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Well argued, erudite and educated! We do need to reset our economy up for independent self-reliance and with cheaper than coal, affordable dispatchable energy whose name cannot be mentioned!

There are a lot of silly folk in this space, making silly, ill-informed statements about things they know SFA about!

And at the head of that vanguard are the antinuclear, anti-development monumentally stupid, green activists and their preferred utopian, unachievable, impractical goals!

The covid-19 virus may be the opportunity we've needed for so long now, to get out from under the Chinese undue influence and dependency!? And we should take with not a moment to lose or waste!

We can be completely independent and make all we need here for ourselves! And given we adopt a cooperative capitalism mindset and set to it, we can become a nation that exports to the world and as a creditor exporter! And whatever we export needs to be value-added or finished products/produce!

The only real impediment to that outcome are tinned eared political recalcitrants with their own self-serving agendas?

If there's another more logical and credible explanation, it's one that escapes me. Insanity perhaps?
Take care and stay safe.
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Tuesday, 31 March 2020 11:26:07 AM
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Doesn't take long for SteeleRedux to hector another poster rather than dealing with the subject. Mind you, the 'hectoree' does a fair bit of that herself.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 11:31:30 AM
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In the early stages of what would become the pandemic, Trump along with most other leaders on the planet accepted the lies told by China and the misinformation sold by WHO and therefore downplayed the potential problems that were headed our way.

According to SR, the heroic left media challenged Trump's view.

SR spends his life rewriting history to match his fantasies.

In fact the 'heroic' left press' only challenge to Trump in those early stages was that he was going too far. When he implemented the travel ban on China, the 'heroic' left press screamed that he was being racist. The heroic left media supported all those who downplayed the problem. Only now, when the full problem is clear do the 'heroic' left press demand that Trump should have gone harder, faster.

Unfortunately for those who want to re-write history, the internet is forever. You can only memory-hole so much stuff.
Posted by mhaze, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 11:44:13 AM
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Dear Chris Lewis,

Yes it is interesting isn't it. As I posted Trump can say things like "we have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s going to be just fine." even though he now says he knew it was going to be a pandemic all along and that "People are really surprised I understand this stuff".

The author of this piece is rightly saying of the Chinese government;

"They've since tried to convince the word that they have things under control, as part of a growing propaganda war with global trade as the stakes."

But this is exactly what Trump, Boris and Morrison tried to do. The more authoritarian the regime the more this goes on. The only difference is the free press which is now under attack by so many of the sycophants and it is happening here. "Only the morons at the woke Sydney Morning Herald could be so gullible".
Posted by SteeleRedux, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 11:46:14 AM
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One of these days SR will accidentally inject a smidgen of truth & even fact into one of his posts & the shock will take our breath away even more than the coronavirus.

I find it hard to believe that even Chris Lewis is so naive that he actually believes the ABC has produced anything like news in the last couple of decades. It must be the complete lefty spin they put on everything that has addled his brain that has him believing such rubbish.
Posted by Hasbeen, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 12:06:24 PM
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Hasbeen, you can think what you want.

What I said is that both the ABC and Sky(especially after 6pm) are both biased, but that the ABC would do better than SKY if both had to rely on advertising 100%.

It is my opinion, and will never be tested because one relies on the govt and the other is supported by Foxtel's owners.

As for fair dinkum debate about Aust's future, i have never seen much worth remembering from either network. lets face it, Aust's elite have succumbed to the money of China for years.

I would rather read OLO, and a variety of sites around the world to help shape my thought process.

I rely on ABC for the news, bu i research stuff around the world to help inform my mind as best i can.
Posted by Chris Lewis, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 12:19:16 PM
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I mean as if Sky or the ABC would tell u this.

"In an economy built on debt, this is a painful but necessary move from the government. Debt needs to be serviced. If it’s not, the asset (which is financed by the debt) loses value. If assets lose value it threatens the solvency of the banking system.

Who are our creditors?

Mostly foreigners. For years we have consumed more than we produced as a nation. As a result, we are a ‘net debtor’ nation. That means we must borrow from the rest of the world to finance our standard of living.

Anyway, decades of excess consumption mean we don’t have the required pool of domestic savings to support our standard of living. So we borrow from foreigners.

That’s why our net foreign debt is $1.143 trillion, as at December 2019.

Over the years, we’ve had to borrow a lot from offshore. As mentioned above, our cumulative (net) borrowing from foreigners is now over a trillion dollars. Servicing that debt is expensive. It requires income. In the December quarter the bill was about $12.5 billion. Annualised, that’s a $50 billion income bill to service our foreign loans.

So when the economy collapses and income evaporates, our foreign creditors are going to get very nervous about rolling over our loans. The risk/reward equation just skewed to lots of risk for not much reward.

This is why Morrison knows he can’t afford to shut the economy down completely. If foreigners stop lending to us, we would be looking at a depression, not a recession.

And a depression would kill far more people than COVID-19. Did you know that suicide in Australia already accounts for around 3,000 deaths a year? Imagine what a depression would do to that number?

So the government is absolutely right to try to get the balance right between stopping the spread of the virus and saving lives and livelihoods by avoiding economic Armageddon".
Posted by Chris Lewis, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 12:25:26 PM
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Before this crisis we were exporting more than we were importing.
Aidan,
On the books yes, in reality ? What were the most manufactured commodities made here ?
I'm not trying to be sarcastic but I'm wondering what these exports could be apart from what's being dug up ?
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 1:00:36 PM
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"Not only this but we've discovered (hopefully not too late) that such heavy reliance on one country for so much of our goods and services may not be such a good thing."
Possibly the most important sentence in this essay.
Posted by ateday, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 1:15:24 PM
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Individual,

Go here to see a summary of our exports in 2019....
http://www.worldstopexports.com/australias-top-10-exports/

Our top manufactured export category was 'Machinery including computers' which was only 6th on the list and only 1.8% of total exports.
Stuff we dig up or grow makes up ~80% of all exports.
Posted by mhaze, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 1:33:26 PM
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individual,
It's mainly services and what we grow. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_exports_of_Australia

Putting things together isn't worth very much nowadays, as China took the value out of value adding.
We have become overreliant on China, but self sufficiency isn't a good solution. Encouraging the development of alternatives to China is. And for us the most significant of those is Indonesia.
Posted by Aidan, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 1:48:52 PM
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I watch the ABC for stuff like Doc Martin; wouldn't dream of taking them seriously for anything non-fiction; although what they pass of as fact is too often fiction. Channel 7 after the main news is the way to go: helpful information, with no panic and exaggeration. No irritating little Scotchman.

Hasbeen,

SR and truth just don't go together.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 2:03:48 PM
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Dear Hasbeen,

Pray tell of a single instance of 'lefty spin' created by the ABC news department during the pandemic.

Also let me know if you can flag a single instance of me being untruthful or non-factual in what I have put in this thread.

For instance did Trump say ""we have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s going to be just fine." or didn't he?

Just because you whine about something does suddenly create it. Or to put it another way it ain't so just because you say it is so.

Anyway why are you so affronted with me giving direct quotes from your president?
Posted by SteeleRedux, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 2:14:42 PM
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mhaze & Aidan,
It'd be interesting as to which of these exports are actually cheaper overseas than what they cost here.
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 5:26:17 PM
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God give me strength! WTF does it matter who the flamin L caused it or where the flamin L it came from, bat's gizzards or frog's legs!

It doesn't help here and now! I mean it's here already and the only thing worth a plugged nickel are solutions and the folk that provide them!

The rest of you "thinkers". can follow AJ in ever-decreasing road rage circles until you disappear up that fundamental orifice, with the master of the incomprehensible himself at the head loudly and proudly proclaiming, it's all Chia-na's fault! That'll fix it, won't it?

Oops! Who turned the lights out?

Not happy Jan?
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Tuesday, 31 March 2020 5:56:45 PM
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Alan, two previous virus came from that same wet market, as they call it.
Experts in the business from other countries asked the Chinese to close it.
They were ignored.
The Central Kingdom is not answerable to others.
On that subject I put a post onto Ausexit thread you and others might find of interest.
Posted by Bazz, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 8:33:08 PM
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A Must see !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnbC9ocFMDw&feature=youtu.be
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 8:36:51 PM
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Dear Alan B,

Given the proposed protocols the chances of getting a respirator if you are over 60 are pretty dire, and thus rather fraught for a raft of the OLO posters, may I offer this little word of advice. It may well be time to take up smoking again.

This little study just out titled Asymptomatic and Presymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 Infections in Residents of a Long-Term Care Skilled Nursing Facility — King County, Washington, March 2020 reveals an interesting statistic. See table 1.

Smokers 7 infected 1 so 14% afflicted
Nonsmokers 46 - infected 22 so 48% afflicted
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6913e1.htm  

It may well be that smoking may confer some kind of protection as in a nonconducive environment for the virus to infect the upper nasal passage. Of course if it goes to the lungs then being a smoker does not bode well for the survival rates. But given the potential rationing of respirators prevention may well be better than the cure.

Very small sample size of course. Enough for me to consider it if I were in my 70s.

Good luck all.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 9:06:11 PM
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Thanks for that SR, And it may well be the carcinogenic tar that protects the lungs from covid-19?

Then allows them to succumb to lung cancer or my favourite, emphysema.

I think the best outcome ahead of an effective antiviral, is to get a mild dose and acquire natural immunity. Then become noncontagious!

I don't believe any of us die before the allotted time and if my term is up? Not a hell of a lot I can do about it.

Take care and stay safe.
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Tuesday, 31 March 2020 10:36:25 PM
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The Wuhan virus aka COVID-19 pandemic is what we call one of the great turning points in history.

I image the West will restructure its economic policies and start to rebuild the local industries that have been decimated by globalisation over the past several decades in order to reduce a reliance on manufactures from China.

Problem for Australia is that it let itself be used by China so that everyone could live of Chinese cash only to have all the benefits wiped out by the Wuhan virus in a few short weeks. And what did we end up with for our troubles: a large Chinese population that no one wants anymore.

Everyone now wants to get rid of China and the Chinese and go back to what life was like 30 odd years ago.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 11:32:32 PM
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Some days ago I pleaded/scolded post writers to focus on the article. (see https://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=20824#367056)I wrote the first on this one, and while complemented the style of article, I was bemused that he did not mention the 'elephant in the room', namely:-

I wrote 'MAIN message is we must learn a lot from this 'chai-na' led virus global crisis its time to rest the global clock both economically and politically.' i.e WE MUST NOT WASTE THIS COVID-19 DISASTER.China must be held to account and we must refom.

Essery wrote in (https://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=20824) on Tuesday,
Kampernick warned the fear of retun of Realpolitik (https://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=20812)
Waulcoupe warned of nuclear response https://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=20808

Thanks to them, different views/issues for what Essery fears will be a 'scary new world' that must replace the open border global village.

And what happens on this bland article, you all run of on tangents and don't address its failings, while ignoring comments on the wealth other more considered articles (eg three above). Are you all lazy, unable to think and only post on OLO to post trivia and propaganda?
Posted by Alison Jane, Wednesday, 1 April 2020 7:13:50 AM
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