Just how are politicians able to " …. solve the immediate problem (the China virus) and to keep it from happening again"? They are just people like the rest of us! If scientists and other qualified medical professionals weren't able to stop COVID-19, what the hell were politicians supposed to do? Politicians aren't much good at the job they are elected to do; they certainly can't stop pandemics or mob hysteria.

In the current crisis, politicians are proving to be as useless as Jonathan J. Ariel, economist and financial analyst, who probably also holds the PM responsible for bushfires.

A sneeze leaves the nostrils up to 104 miles per hour and the droplets can travel up to 30 feet! And important that one sneezes into a tissue or the inner elbow.

That a virus cannot survive for more than a few minutes outside of a human host, or warm and comfortable place, e.g., your mobile phone if customarily carried in a pocket And where it may remain viable for up to a week?

Hand washing for a full 20 second under running hot water should be standard practice. several times a day. And automatically after using the toilet! Panadol may help with fever if you have one as will rehydration with water!

We have heard reports apparently emanating from Thailand that coronavirus has been successfully treaded with HIV antivirus?

We know viruses do not survive long in the cold or when exposed to UV. so, make sure your domicile is well ventilated, particularly when it's cold. the cold is your friend and the viruses, enemy. Rug up and practise circular breathing, in through the nose and out through the mouth.

If you smoke? Quit as this may compromise your lungs ability to absorb sufficient virus killing oxygen?

Ensure all your bedding spends time at least once a month out in full sunlight and exposed to sanitising UV, includes mattress and mattress protectors. As these things can carry a virus load, if used by someone sick?

Make sure the tin lids are following this advice and keeping their hands clean and out of their nostrils and quarantined away from the old folk, the sick and vulnerable!

Understand that the pollies know less than most of you and are reading scripts from paper and are usually clueless, but love photo ops and the sound of their own voices, have little if any empathy, and will only do what is forced on them via self-interest?

And excel at oratory? Blame shifting!

I mean, why do you think our economy is still welded to coal and most of our manufacturing industry/corporate Australia is offshore?
Alan B.

Good morning ttbn,

You are misguided claiming that I like many hold the PM responsible for the bushfires. What nut would hold him so responsible?

In fact the criticism made at the time urging him to return from the Aloha State were ill informed. He like many politicians should have stayed out and to a great degree stayed out of the management of the bushfire crisis. The criticism I believe concerned a lack of keeping the public in the know about his movements and the arrangements he put in place to manage the crisis.

Your point on medical experts, let alone politicians being unable to solve the crisis ignores my two key points. First, the crisis cannot be currently solved. It can however be better managed. Second, I query if the PM needs to trade in the current crop of scientific experts in favour of others in order to better manage the pandemic.

ScoMo let the tragic truth out mid-last week in media statement when he said that they have been planning/managing this crisis since *January*. Well, whatever their planning was it certainly doesn't appear to have given much consideration to the dire health/mortality implications of this.

Our country's response has been a balls up from the start!!

It has been obvious for quite a while now that this is the greatest threat we have faced in generations. While people in our country were still incessantly crapping on about bush fires (which have had only minor economic impact and negligible fatalities) China was building hospitals and shutting whole provinces. At this stage at the latest we should have been intensely focused on the virus and actually done something useful.

We are a first world ISLAND country thus it should have been very easy for us to contain this. Basically, all you had to do was introduce mandatory quarantine for those coming here and implement a strict testing regime! That should have been PLAN A. Then we should have also made PLAN B about what happens if it does gets here- eg, implement isolation and contact tracing for for infected like in other countries, and *importantly* disseminate these plans widely to the general public! Instead they fluffed around until it is was late and are now making ad-hoc back-footed on-the-run policy.

Weeks ago the government should have prepared the populace with timely and accurate advice about avoid it and about need to build up reserve food/supplies!

Just imagine what is would now be like if we did do this: You could still go out to any event you wanted, you could still have all students in class, the economy (besides tourism) would still be functioning nearly as normal, etc.

Thinkabit: Coulda, shoulda woulda. doesn't help! Neither does 20-20 hindsight and Monday morning expertise.

The virus is here now and how we deal with it now is all that matters, should concern us!

Our head of border control, the redoubtable Minister Dutton, brought a dose of the virus in with him? And infected others possibly? Who knows if or how many?

So if you're into finger-pointing and Monday morning expertise? Rack that one up!

Or alternatively, try thinking a bit before opening gob/Engage brain before putting mouth into gear.

Better the world should suspect you are a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt?

You'll have a nice day now y'hear.
Alan B.

Jonathan,

You ask "What nut would hold him so responsible?". Well, lots of nuts, as you would know from the hysterical media reports during and after the fires. If you say that you are not one of them, I have to accept that.

I never suggested trading in 'experts', but your mention of the possibility reminds me that these people have pleaded with politicians to leave the virus and comments on it to them. And so they should. Politicians are not to be trusted with anything, nor is a high percentage of the Australian public who are behaving disgracefully. As I said elsewhere, heaven help us if we ever have another major war.

Thanks for your contribution.

Heard this morning of a young female from our village going to Bali last week despite being advised not to. Apparently, her answer was "I want to go to Bali & nothing is going to stop me".
I just hope our Govt won't let her back until she is cleared at her own expense !

She will have to go into isolation like everyone else when she returns. No brains.

Another economist, Peter Smith, says that "We are apparently in the hands of medical experts who want to flatten the curve of those needing hospitalisation. But this means the whole thing will be dragged out and cause misery for many thrown out of work. Surely the better strategy is to concentrate on protecting the most vulnerable and to go onto a contained war footing in producing additional medical equipment, drugs and beds – managing spikes that way – and allowing everyone else and every business to get on with life."

The world is full of armchair experts who are Masters of hindsight. This pandemic lies firmly at the feet of China, its acceptance of life wild animal markets and attempts to silently contain the disease allowing to spread around the world on aircraft and ships before we even knew it existed.

On the Global scale, Australia is doing well. Few of the scoffing pundits who attacked Dutton/Morrison strategy of using Christmas Island and isolated Army bases. Where is the media and left-wing brigade now... why no praise for their foresight? Hypocrisy rungs deep in them! If Shoten, Wong, Gillard or Rudd had been in charge, we would be in a very much worse state of affairs, and facing the demise of Italy etc.

AS for experts, they can be flawed, but compared to the rest of us, they are surely more likely to have solutions. As for the Pollies, no matter what they do they will be wacked. I have no love for our pollies, but fair is fair, what can the real do? Sure this should be a wake up call. This (just like Sars, Mers etc) whole issue needs to be assessed and prepared for in the future to prevent forthcoming pandemics. Borders, travel, vaccinations, general health status, disease control must he given serious thought by governments, and not left in the hands of inefficient, bloated and often corrupt international organisations like UN/ WHO

Its time we "know it all armchair critics" looked at ourselves and realise that we have created this situation by pandering the globalisation/ free border brigade who most likely are now at the front of the que of every supermarket, with trolleys of hand wash and toilet paper!

Alan B: You say "Coulda, shoulda woulda. doesn't help! Neither does 20-20 hindsight and Monday morning expertise."

Yes, but the thing is is that for me I've been onto this for a *couple of months*. Unlike most here I could see from a very early time that this was potentially extremely serious.

In fact here is a topic that I raised on this very forum way back in JANUARY where I was asking for people's opinion about the safest place to be:

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=9061#299007

As you can see way back then I was planning about what I can do to personally protect myself from the oncoming crises!

For over two 2 months I've been getting ready for this!! I was making sure that for me at least I won't be saying "woulda coulda shoulda" when it all goes pear shaped.

But here's the important thing, if an individual with just personal resources can see this coming thundering down the tracks and prepare for it then why the hell didn't the government! Especially since they are now claiming that they have been "preparing" since January. So I'm asking: what the hell did they actually achieve with their preparations?

Anyway, you just keep with wiping down you mobile phone daily and writing uncountable post about how Thorium would save us from all the world's evils because that's really going to help you isn't it?

one small positive of the Cornovirus it that it has pushed the idiotic made up global warming fraud to the back pages. Won't take to long for some fool to make a link.

I only hope that greed, the greedy & stupidity will be the only casualties from this virus !

To runner.. TOO RIGHT, and guess what the warmer it is ( natural change in climate cycle anyway) the less infectious it is! They must be rigging the parameterizations on the 30 plus models to adjust for that!

Alison, you write of the corrupt WHO. I agree. Our contribution of $12m in fiscal 2018 to the WHO, could be better spent here in Australia. As I doubt they offer cash-backs, maybe we should withhold contributions this year, given WHO's ineffective management of COVID-19.

If Corona needs cooler temperature to spread then aren't we lucky that Global Warming arrives just in time ?

So warming global temperatures (naturally earth and solar based) plus improved leaf index satellite data driven by C02 (mainly earth induced by ocean warming, not man made emissions) are good and they might help create an environment that is not favourable to viruses like COVID-19!...Whoopee bring it on down!

OK Ladies calm down! Greatest threat in generations? You jest! Two flu pandemics in my lifetime 1954 and 1968 were worse but without all this hysteria from you bunch of schoolgirls. Face it, the danger is to people over 70 and that's me but I have managed not to wet myself yet. Leaving schools open would have increased the infections but not to the level of causing a health system break down. Now everyone wants to outbid everyone else's stupidity and take over? I bet no one will take the blame that will have to be ScoMo and Trump as usual.
We need to get back to common sense and exhibiting a bit of fortitude as our Mothers and Fathers would have done.

J bowyer....SPOT ON. lets get back to reality and common-sense.

Too bloody right he should lead more. he has busily been balancing economic imperatives over human lives and it needs to stop.

Daniel Andrews in Victoria and Mark McGowan in WA are showing the kind of front foot decision making we needed from the PM but didn't get.

Rudd was very much ahead of the game while this bloke is playing catch up constantly.

Another island country Taiwan, through vigorous and timely action, despite hosting over 2 million chinese tourists a year and having a population nearly the size of Australia has managed to keep the confirmed cases under 60. Australia is already 6 times that number and accelerating.

Pitifully inadequate response which will undoubtedly cost Australian lives.

Memo to Australians: panic less, think more & start being responsible instead of blaming the Govt for your own inadequacies !

It really is time to grow up a bit SR.

If they don't take into account the economic results of any policy they could ruin hundreds of thousands of lives by sending business broke, or by business closing, leaving millions of workers with no cash flow to pay the rent/mortgage buy the food, or pay the car or credit card payments.

Just closing schools would destroy so many lives as working mothers have to stay home with the kids, destroying families cash flow, & probably their economic futures.

It will be a pity if many of us old timers catch dose & lose the battle, but so many lives could be ruined by an overly ambitious shut down of business, that is a chance we may have to take.

No matter what action the government takes, we know ratbag lefties will try to use it against them. Hopefully real people will see through the blabber by types like you & see you for what you are.

'Rudd was very much ahead of the game while this bloke is playing catch up constantly.'

Oh the guy that took over the economy with a surplus and wasted billions
The guy that showed 'compassion' by opening up the borders leading to 1300 plus drowning and about 70000 illegal immigrants.

The guy sucking up to the UN declared climate change as the worlds biggest moral challenge and then ditching the idea of a carbon tax.

The guy who was elected as one of the most popular politicians in Australia's history only to be tossed out by his own party in less than a term.

A guy who has become so delusional and bitter since his demise that he is only matched by Turnbull. And lets not forget pink batts, clunkers, school halls.

What a hero he is to you SR.

TTBN. It sounds so easy to just let it all happen and try to protect those at risk, whilst producing more hospital beds and medicines.
Problem with that is, bugger the beds, we don’t have enough hospitals and we especially don’t have enough ventilators, based on figures from overseas. So, if we see a spike in cases, doctors are going to have to prioritise who gets the ventilators and I guarantee, it won’t be us old folk, it will be the young people who get them.
This appears to be what has happened overseas, with a massive demand for ventilators and not enough to go round.

Dear Hasbeen,

Economy over people. Why does that appear to be the default of the rightwing governments around the world at the moment. Boris wanting to let this thing rip until the community gains some kind of mythical 'herd immunity' without vaccines. Trump going as slow as possible shovelling money at big business while skimping terrible on test kits. Here in Oz an ineffectual PM only now getting around to a public education campaign.

The two Labour state governments in WA and Victoria are showing the kind of leadship we deserve, not the one we are currently getting federally.

You panic: “Just closing schools would destroy so many lives as working mothers have to stay home with the kids, destroying families cash flow, & probably their economic futures.”

Oh my god, never though of that! How on earth are we going to cope with the Easter holidays which are just around the corner? All those kids and going to destroy so many lives during their two weeks off!!

Don't be an idiot.

At our present daily increase of roughly 25 percent, Victoria will have about 1600 people infected by the end of this month. We need to rigorously adopt social distancing if we are to reduce this number. Us oldies need to self quarantine as well as getting our groceries delivered by Coles and Woolies.
David

Alan B. you wrote that:

"a virus cannot survive for more than a few minutes outside of a human host..."

The cdc.gov however advises that "Current evidence suggests that novel coronavirus may remain viable for hours to days on surfaces made from a variety of materials. Cleaning of visibly dirty surfaces followed by disinfection is a best practice measure for prevention of COVID-19 and other viral respiratory illnesses in households and community settings", see

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/cleaning-disinfection.html

Runner

On the matter of Kevin Rudd, don't forget he is the so-and-so sitting in New York lecturing ScoMo how to run the country and criticising the Trump administration on its health care management.

I would have thought (a) as a former PM he should keep his mouth shut when it comes to lecturing his successors and (b) as a guest in the US, presumably holding the status of "resident alien", it would be prudent not to voice opinions on US politics.

to right Jonathan but I suspect the ego that led Australia into such a mess is still well and truly alive. I think he actually believed his own press (ie the abc) who hated Howard so much all they could see was stars in their eyes initially when it came to Rudd.

Johnathon, correction, I included mobile phones, particularly if carried in warm pockets, ditto other warm surfaces.

Contrary to the claims by some moribund folk, global warming won't kill viruses, but help more of them survive through the cooler months where natural cooling will, (would normally) kill more of them, save those surviving on a warm host and "stuffy hothouse" domiciles.

If we could shut down the nation and close all borders compel everyone to self-quarantine for a fortnight, we would stop this thing dead in its tracks.

[This thing is going to kill some of us! Mostly those too dumb to adopt good personal hygiene! won't quit smoking and try and absorb virus killing oxygen, via smoke compromised, tar tanned lungs.]

But you and I know this Curfew quarantine is never going to happen, that some folks, antivacciners, preppers etc, are never going to comply?

As for just allowing the thing to rip and treat those who are infected? Not viable when your total beds the length and breadth of the country may top out at 10,000 and in NSW alone, the predicted infection total, is over a million!

About alleged herd immunity? No evidence that that could protect the survivours, as your immunity may only be good for 6-7 months? At which time you could be reinfected. But possibly, not as seriously?


Your two main lines of defence are exposure to the cold! A well-ventilated domicile and daily exposure to UV. And disinfection of beds bedding etc/etc, in direct sunlight!

The other is outside and regular personal exposure to disinfecting sunlight, albeit, rugged up to beat the cold and wearing a hat, long sleeves etc, to avoid skin cancer. The air there is continually disinfected via exposure to disinfecting sunshine!

Learn to breathe it in as deeply as possible and puff it out through pursed lips as if you were blowing out candles, to maximise your oxygen uptake/saturation!

The government has no plan other than Scomo talking it to death, to prevent your infection? So it's up to you to do it for yourself!
Alan B.

Alan B

You write "If we could shut down the nation and close all borders compel everyone to self-quarantine for a fortnight, we would stop this thing dead in its tracks".

I agree. Although I am unsure if a fortnight is sufficient.

Worryingly a few hours ago the Dutch decided to ignore that strategy and do what they can to avert a national lock down.

tar tanned lungs.
Alan B,
Does COVID-19 attack Tar too ?

People should be less greedy & lead themselves using the guidelines of our society. Such demands should not be expected from a PM in the first place who's position is to lead the Nation not the selfish mutts within.
The hindsight "experts" of the ABC should report what's actually happening not bombard us with their opinions.
Look at that self opinionated Norman Swan posing as medical expert yet all he does is denouncing anything that is not Left. Why does he not use his supposed expertise to offer solutions instead of just running everything down ? Where was his "expert" advise at the onset of COVID-19 ?? All he does is fuelling the panic that's developing ! I say to him put on your rubber gloves, put on a face mask, shut up & get cracking ! Way more useful & deserving of what the hand he constantly bites pays him !

Dear individual,

It is gobsmacking how you manage to create this alternate world where the PM is the medical expert while the highly respected Norman Swann is the one worthy of criticism.

I do however enjoy the cognitive dissonance you are wallowing in. It makes me appreciate just how far from reality some of the right are determined to put themselves in order to keep their ideology intact.

The PM has repeatedly fudged the messaging on this to protect corporate interests and most Australians just aren't buying it any more. Hoarding is apparently 'un-Australian' so don't do it any more? We need the politics and the politicians to step out of the way and let trusted people like Swann to be the public face of the response in this country.

We don't need Scotty from marketing right now, we need a Swanny.

Damn we are being led by a bunch of useless clowns federally and we deserve better.

Individual

I don't agree with you.
I am not a fan of the Anti-Christian Broadcasting Corp and have little time for most of their radio hosts. But must say that I heard Dr Swan a couple of times urging folk NOT to panic but to comprehend the magnitude of the crisis. He also, IMHO correctly, argued many days ago that Australia should go hard and fast into quarantining the ill and hence minimise their chances of severe morbidities and even death. For my money, Swan is of a calibre that I feel is atypical of what one usually finds on the ABC and in Fairfax Meeja.

I say again, I believe his intellect and communication skills must be harnessed by ScoMo and Hunt.

the highly respected Norman Swann is the one worthy of criticism.
SteeleRedux & Jonathan J. Ariel,
I don't agree with your idoctrination-induced views !
He's only highly respected in your circles.

I agree with you on this one.
Swan is of a calibre that I feel is atypical of what one usually finds on the ABC and in Fairfax Media.
That goes with my above assertion !

the abc again showing itself to be totally partisan and an enemy of the people. Norman Swan might be well respected but many in the abc respected Malcolm Turnbull and Kevin 07. They hated people showing decent morals and not falling in line with their latest groupthink. Personally I have heard Norman Swan waffling absolute garbage with the evolutionary fantasy on the abc in the past. He should stick to what he knows and not what he is brainwashed by. The abc has sent out as many mixed messages as the multitude of other experts. To claim the higher ground is dishonest and insulting.