This seems quite desperate defence and seems loaded to the gunnels with humbug writ large?

If President rump wants to go to trial in the Senate AS HE HAS REQUESTED, it cannot be with selectively selected witnesses and documents or heavily redacted documents!

The President should have his way and a fair trial! However, a fair trial cannot exclude some witnesses, testimony or any relevant documents!

If there is a problem with any of the above, they can be subsequently disposed of in the senate, not beforehand!
End of story!

Let all the facts be known and let the chips fall where they may and ASAP! Or would you rather they be leaked piecemeal up until November? As the President stonewalls over witness/document release.

If he continues on with this moribund tactic, the courts may decide for him what is or isn't relevant!? And if that is the outcome may prove more harmful to him than simply having them disposed of in the Senate!
Alan B.

Trump haters will be haters. They could not find any breaches of law so they made them up and when exposed dug deeper. Our own abc pushed the lies daily. The journo's know no shame. Yep no wonder people don't trust mainstream news and especially the lying left liberal media. The uni's must be training the journalist in group think lies and virtue signalling.

At age 9, I personally saw the cruel impact of the 'free' media in operation, and have been careful not to believe everything you read or see. These days ( 51 years later in my case), it takes time and effort to scan the range of disparate "truths" spruiked by the supposedly objective, non-partisan claims meet by our media "betters".

Their truth is the only truth, and the rest of us who think or dare to question their offerings are stupid, deplorable, sceptical and denialists!

And these are the same guys who while hating each other, expect themselves to have different laws for them over us regarding their "freedom". Give us a break!

Alan B
You say <The President should have his way and a fair trial! However, a fair trial cannot exclude some witnesses, testimony or any relevant documents>

The Democrats trial to compile the impeachment, included only witnesses they chose. When they belatedly let a couple of Trumps lawyers in to cross examine their witnesses. If the questioning was leading to answers they didn’t like, Chairman Schiff
would keep beating his gavel down and wouldn’t allow the question to proceed.
I watched a lot of this so called trial.

Now the Democrats are witholding their impeachment which was so urgent from the Senate because they know they won’t have the control in the senate to shut down questions they don’t want asked.

If the Democrats are so dammed worried about the danger of bribery and Quid Pro Quo why haven’t they put Joe Biden and his son Hunter on trial for the self confessed
withholding of 1 billion dollars from Ukraine aid, if the Ukrainian prosecutor wasn’t called off investigating corruption against his son, who was being paid $ 600,000 a year in a job he had no qualifications for. I’ve seen that utube video, Joe not only boasts about what he did, he thinks it’s funny.

The truth is the Democrats couldn’t care less about Trumps phone call which is much less serious than what Joe Biden did. They are trying to bring down a democratically elected President. Who’s the Whistleblower? Schiffs grandmother?

Cherful:
The trial that Presiden Trump demanded in the Senate should proceed even if the allegorical judge and jury are stacked with Trump supporters.

And they will be able to challenge any witness or document or present countervailing of the same. Any of which can be disposed of by legal remedy available to the Senate. That you still have a problem with that speaks volumes and none of it complimentary!

Trump Has nothing to fear from a fair trial but perhaps plenty if the actual truth is exposed and leaked?

From where I sit that seems to be his greatest concern. Don't forget an impeached President remains impeached for life!
Alan B.

Cherful:
The trial that Presiden Trump demanded in the Senate should proceed even if the allegorical judge and jury are stacked with Trump supporters.

Moreover, they will be able to challenge any witness or document or present countervailing of the same. Any of which can be disposed of by legal remedy available to the Senate. That you still have a problem with that speaks volumes and none of it complimentary!

Trump Has nothing to fear from a fair trial but perhaps plenty if the actual truth is exposed and leaked?

From where I sit that seems to be his greatest concern. Don't forget an impeached President remains impeached for life!
Alan B.

Also the Senate under the constitution could dismiss this impeachment report with out a hearing in the senate if they think it is based on little substance and is not a high crime threat. And the Senate wants to do this, because they now have to set up a multimillion dollar trial, preparing evidence, researching, calling witnesses. It’s a big job taking up weeks maybe months of the senates time preparing it all. While you have all these people involved in this process, the job of governing is slowed and disrupted.

The senate realises this impeachment is based on a flimsy concept lacking real evidence, so why should they go through a trial process they could just vote to dismiss.
That is common sense.

Unfortunately the a Democrats backed up by their media allies have turned this into more serious than it is and so now Trump is for holding a trial to clear his name even though the senate could just vote to end the whole thing now and rightly so.

Considering in 2016 during the election run up the FBI was wire tapping Trumps staff and colleagues under the guise of investigating Russian Interference, when it was found Russia had put some fake Facebook post up favouring Trump.

They were doing what they are accusing him of doing, spying on his election campaign.
By the way, they never found any phone link between Trump and Russia.

Alan B,
The president of the country has a right to ask the new leader of a country Ukraine, about corruption which usually always involves money,
The corruption in Ukraine was so bad that the people elected the new Ukrainian President to clean it up. Guess who had been given control of Ukraine under the Obama administration, under which all this Ukrainian corruption prospered, Joe Biden.

President Trump in his phone call to the new Ukrainian President congratulated him on his win, and asked how the corruption clean-up was going. He was checking things out before he handed so much American money and weapons over to Ukraine.
If Joe Biden was part of the corruption in Ukraine that was his fault and the Democrats fault, it wasn’t the President of America’s fault that corruption had thrived under Joe Biden’s control in Ukraine. You can’t blame President Trump for Joe Biden’s guilt.

And talking about finding dirt on opponents the FBI were doing wire tapping in the lead up to the 2016. Tapping Trumps staff and connections to find any connection to Russia, which they never found, but blamed an innocent man for being Trumps connection to Russia in The fake Steele Dossier,paid for by Hilary Clinton to the Fisa Court.
That man was Carter Page whom the FBI had tapped in two calls to Russia, but never any connection to Trump.

The FBI contacted the CIA to ask if they had any information on Carter Page. The CIA said, “ he works for us, he is one of the good guys working for America.”
The FBI again asked them, and they received the same answer..
Now Desperate to find a connection between Trump and Russia, they put Carter Pages name on the FISA application. Carter said they ruined his life and reputation in the fake media. He’s thinking of suing them.

17 irregularities in that Fake Steele Dossier, to the Fisa court. 17 errors? by the top intelligence? Agency in the world. It was fraud and a few people should be up on criminal charges over that.

The article is about the Steele Dossier which has precisely nothing, nowt, nil to do with the current 'impeachment' farce.

As usual, Alan B, talking with feigned great authority about things of which he is utterly clueless, has high-jacked a discussion.

So back to the so-called dossier. It was used by the DNC as a weapon against the Trump campaign, was then passed to the media to be used as a weapon against the Trump campaign and then used by the FBI to fool the FISA court to allow the deep state to spy on the Trump campaign and the Trump administration. All the while, not a single substantive fact in the dossier was verified.

And through the two years where the deep state/DNC/media tried to use it to derail the Trump presidency, Trump soldiered on, making America great again.

The Mueller investigation did cursory checks on the dossier but backed-off when it was clear it was bunkum, while still pretending it was of value.

But the IG report burst the bubble which is why the deep state/DNC/media have pivoted to the Ukraine rubbish.

Yet the fun isn't over. There is still another report to drop following the investigation led by Durham which will be an even more thorough revelation of how corrupt the dossier and those who used it for political purposes really were.

The entire episode is a stain on the entire US establishment. That Trump was as successful as he's been in the face of this villainy is remarkable.

Early last century an entirely false document called the Protocols of the Elders of Zion which claimed to show Jewish plans to conquer the world was widely accepted as true. Historians look back and wonder how otherwise intelligent beings could fall for these obvious lies.

Similarly people will look back at the dossier and wonder how it was that so many thought it true. But the reason is simple. They believed it because they WANTED it to be true

Mhaze
I totally agree with all you say.. I thought Alan was off topic but I was triggered to dispute what he said, Sorry. I did come back to the Dozzier in the second half of my last post.

It’s long past time these FBI people and others who committed knowing fraud to hold an illegal investigation were charged.

They have apparently issued a “we are very sorry” statement.

Very sorry doesn’t absolve them from committing fraud.

one rule and standard for conservatives and a complete lack of standards for liberals. Has been for a long time.

YeeeeUPP! Cherful and runner have got it spot on

I can only guess how soul-destroying it must be to live a life so hemmed in by hate & envy as the 'democratic' self loathers. Not being capable of pulling their own weight yet so utterly dependent on those the so despise.