First of all, you need suitable weather conditions to backburn and the fire season has grown shorter and shorter. Average wind speeds seem also to have increased? The consequence of increased global convection. Which is caused by an average increase in the ambient temperature of around 1C. 1C is not a huge rise but as we can all attest, comes with significant weather changes.

And all down to increased CO2 already at record uncharted levels as a proportion of the atmosphere!

And the annual burns that the arsonists love does add more CO2 to the atmosphere even if those fires are cool. And also with every burn, scarce soil nutrients go up in smoke and out to sea never to return, where they do nothing but harm to the natural environment and balance!

We know this as fact due to the loss of tonnage in sugar cane that is burnt just before harvest, as a year in year out, result!

How long have we grown cane in this country? Imagine if we'd grown it for forty thousand years! Why the cane fields would be barren arid wasteland!

Not only that but repeated annual burnings bake the ground over time with the result more runoff and less penetration of available moisture.

Fuel reduction which is an absolute essential is done far better with very short term, intensive herd grazing, which has the effect of chopping up hardened ground to allow better penetration of rainfall and less runoff and with that, less erosion.

Add dung beetles and all the organic material that comes with intensive short term call grazing is added to the soil as increased carbon that also adds to its ability to retain moisture.

If management teaches us anything? It teaches us there is always a better way and that way is neither black or white, just a right way!
Alan B.

"Cult status" and "lemming-like adoration of characters like Greta Thunberg". Great plain and straight language that sums up the hysterical climate change activists and babblers beautifully.

Bushfires will always be with us, but they could be made more manageable, as they were before idiot Greens started bullying gutless politicians, by reducing undergrowth, and ceasing to reduce productive land to pest-infested tinder boxes called national parks.

This author continues to trot out ignorant pieces that are a mixture of half truths, ideologically driven opinion, and unseemly sloganeering, especially for someone who has apparently held a professorship.

Even on the topic of water, which is touted as his area of expertise, he is lacking in fundamental understanding.

I'm no fan of the Greens but when this bloke says "The Greens' insistence that we leave our native forest alone has caused Australia's current fire hazards." despite a very clear Greens policy supporting scientifically valid fuel reduction it is obvious he has done little research for this puff piece.

We should be able to demand better from our academics, even the retired ones, and I do so now.

Like Alan said, global warming is real. That's why bushfires are more common and worse.

Videos of average folk pointing to snow doesn't refute that. If anything, it proves Greta's point. Snow means more ice melts. If winds increase, it will *feel* colder. It's just windchill. It doesn't mean air temperatures have changed.

"The Greens' insistence that we leave our native forest alone has caused Australia's current fire hazards."
SteeleRedux,
Yes but not only ! People building homes among the Gumtrees is not the primary cause although it has not been established fully that some of the fires weren't started around some homes. The degree of damage/loss is purely due to humans building in high risk locations.
Reason # 2 is that fires are being extinguished where they should be left to burn themselves out so as to the next fire season's lack of fuel being ensured.

More anthropologists and fewer economists, please

No, more pragmatists & realists & fewer theorists !

Individualist - if you want realism, listen to the scientists (and read their articles).

https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

Scientific Consensus: Earth's Climate is Warming
AyameTan,
I'm aware of all that by now, no need for some overpaid bureaucrats to repeat it for me at huge cost. Why don't they work on solutions instead of keeping on telling us the same thing over & over.

They are. The biggest problem is that overpopulation affects climate change. And overpopulation also (sadly) fuels economic growth.

https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/programs/population_and_sustainability/climate/

AyameTan,
So, what are these scientists doing about overpopulation ?

They're encouraging contraception and smaller families. What are YOU doing about it?

Besides using children as slave labor, as the bible encourages.

He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes. -- Proverbs 13:24

Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him. -- Proverbs 22:15

Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. -- Proverbs 23:13-14

Wow,... who would have thought the causes of bushfire crisis would descend into religious abuse..... chill the rhetoric Master Tan

There are highly intelligent people, expert in the field whose advise I find appealing.
Here is a sample in the key of "C" for climate, and also representing "change"

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ-BddVwQ94

Greta thanks you for your attention.

Dan

In a sad and horrific way, a whole lot of fuel reduction is happening.

One outlook on why the fuel-load grew to create the intensity of this fire season is that climate change did it. Another is that we haven't been responding with the right fire mitigation practices, whatever climate has thrown at us:

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/lets-tell-the-burning-truth/news-story/ae30e22c69a0a9a7fe4141bc4e9442a8

On Sky News - morons still blaming the PM for bushfires. These morons need to be taken aside and told that it is their state premiers and governments that should be taken to taken for task for not re-introducing proper land management and burning off of fuel loads. They also need to be told that CO2 emissions have nothing to do with bushfires. Ongoing, natural climate change has nothing to do with bushfires.

An "heroic" firefighter refused to shake the PM's hand in Cobargo. Hero or not, that firefighter is an absolute pig.

'An "heroic" firefighter refused to shake the PM's hand in Cobargo. Hero or not, that firefighter is an absolute pig.'

more than likely another Green who has contributed to the problem.

runner,

Certainly not a LNP voter. If most Australians were that ignorant, we would have a Labor government now. It makes me shudder to think that people like that and all the hysterics who blame the PM and climate change for bushfires are actually allowed to vote. They are too stupid to register that the vote went against the extreme climateers.

The temperature seems to have been rising for 300 years since the
Maunder minimum and will be back to a cold period in 300 years approx.
The whole global warming phenomena might be simpler than many think.

Hey AyameTan,
Welcome to the forum.

"Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. -- Proverbs 23:13-14"

How would you like someone to beat you with that stick?
- Don't worry you won't die...

* For Gods sake, don't let that stupid book send your brain around the twist.
God cares about your soul.

Stick with the this part:

'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'

The rest of that book tends to often send people a little loopy;
And you're doing a good job of making Christians look like extremists.

Me personally, I don't care about your soul.
And I just don't think there's really any need for any more unstable religious thinking people than we already have.

Freedom of religion DOES NOT give you a right to advocate breaking Australian laws.

And if you pick on kids, it's you that's weak.

You don't use smacking as a default go-to punishment.
Only when you have to, like when they run off across the road in front of cars and put themselves in danger..
In cases like this, if you don't smack them then, it's you that's being negligent and failing to ensure their physical and emotional wellbeing.

Before you read any more of that book, you should take time to check yourself, before you completely wreck yourself.

- No hard feelings, nothing personal, Happy 2020 etc.

Great article by the way 10/10

Just posted this elsewhere. It is from the Royal Commission into the 1939 fires in Victoria and is second on the list of causes;

"The Condition of the Forests.—When the early settlers came to what is now this State, they found for the greater part a clean forest. Apparently, for many years before their arrival, the forest had not been scourged by fire. They were in their natural state. Their canopies had prevented the growth of scrub and bracken to any wide extent. They were open and traversible by men, beasts and wagons. Compared with their present condition, they were safe. B ut the white men introduced fire to the forests. They burned the floor to promote the growth of grass and to clear it of scrub which had grown where, for whatever reason, the balance of nature had broken down. The fire stimulated grass growth ; but it encouraged scrub growth far more. Thus was begun the cycle of destruction which can not be arrested in our day. The scrub grew and flourished, fire was used to clear it, the scrub grew faster and thicker, bush fires, caused by the careless or designing hand of man, ravaged the forests; the canopy was impaired, more scrub grew and prospered, and again the cleansing agent, fire, was used. And so to-day in places where our forefathers rode, driving their herds and flocks before them, the wombat and the wallaby are hard put to it to find passage through the bush.

ttbn, LNP voters think you can raise a child with a small baby bonus/tax break.

Bezz, did you even click on the link?

https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/programs/population_and_sustainability/climate/

That's interesting Steelie, presuming the science is right. How did the aborigines not cause the same issue through their bush-firing?

What are YOU doing about it?
AyameTan,
Sorry about the late reply but I had to wait several hours before I was permitted to post again.
I'm actually doing exactly what the scientists are doing & have been doing so for many years and, in addition I'm distributing the letter by Dr Hans Hass at every opportunity, a bloke who was 50 years ahead of your time.
Thus far it has been a battle against shut eyes & closed ears.
However, the most gratifying part is that I can do this at no expense, no Govt grants needed unlike the scientists !
I have yet to see Middle East scientists & Academics pushing for birth control, in fact non-European scientists for that matter. All I seem to ever read from them is how we should provide more aid. Well, send sterilisation equipment & condoms to those countries with record births.
In Australia we could prevent uncontrolled population growth by doing away with all benefits relating to having babies.

Individual said: I have yet to see Middle East scientists & Academics
Now there is a contradiction in terms.

Armchair critic - I'm glad you don't see hitting as a "first resort." But why would it be a resort at all for you? Why do you think that will help? Why would it do anything except encourage them to solve problems with violence? Violence is often the fastest "solution," but it is rarely the best one.

Individual - Muslim countries live under Shariah law. 99% of them have IQs below 40. That's why they have 10 kids they can't afford.

No AyameTan their average IQ is more like 70.
Do you have children ? Like adults they can revolt and absolutely
refuse to do as instructed. You can try and reason with them, but just
like some on here it is a waste of time.
It is the sudden understanding that you physically hurt them and they
cannot respond likewise they then realise you are being fair dinkum.

You quickly learn that they act like adults, but their understanding
of your reasons is beyond their current learning level.

I think the Cobargo incident which ended with ScuMo and mates being chased out of town with their tails between their legs is a wake-up call to all the politicians, bureaucrats and business people who have been telling people that the burning of fossil fuels is not the cause of global warming over the past 240 years.

Unfortunately it has had to come to this environmental crisis to make people realise that what the climatologists have been warning about over the past 50 decades is real.

I love this tweet from Bette Midler

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/australia/bette-midler-takes-to-twitter-against-australian-prime-minister-scott-morrison-ng-b881424461z

Yes Bette, you have hit the nail right on the head. Unfortunately there are a lot of Australians who are exactly the same as him.

Personally I would consider it an honour if the Hollywood deviants were criticising me Mr O.

Hey AyameTan,

"I'm glad you don't see hitting as a 'first resort."

Make them do pushups first, so you've got time to calm down, ensuring you don't treat them unfairly in a state of anger.
Then use that time to think up a more fitting punishment.
They'll learn young they can't wind you up and mess with you, and that you'll just make it worse for them.

There's pro's and con's for every argument, often people don't spend enough time thinking about a valid argument from the other side.

Animals in the wild bite their young to teach them how to act, probably to ensure their survival from predators.

I think not smacking them when you should can potentially have just as much damage;
They need to learn when they're young that actions have consequences and this is essential for their survival.

So yes, if your kid doesn't listen and bolts out across the road in front of cars, smack their ass good enough to hope they don't forget it.

"Why would it do anything except encourage them to solve problems with violence?"

They learn 2 behaviors, 'respect your parents', and 'tit for tat'.
This is an issue they have to respect you on, and it's not unfair.
It's not going to tip then into dysfunctional behavior on it's own unless you're already smacking them for everything else.

And it's not necessarily wrong to solve problems with violence, it just depends on which ones.
Think of an valid example where it would be ok to do so.

What if you were out after dark with a partner, child or loved one and were attacked?
Would it be ok to solve THAT problem with violence?
Would it be better if you and your family were harmed?

If you don't want them to solve problems with violence, then treat them fairly so they learn that respect is a two way street.
Ensure they're well grounded and well adjusted, and well prepared to live their own lives as they grow up and hopefully they wont have any need to solve problems with violence.

Bazz, do you really think having children you can't afford is "responsible"? You're either very rich, very naive, or very stupid.

"According to a 2016 study, the average cost of raising a child from birth to age 17 is $297,600 for a typical middle-class Australian family [1].

Even so, this cost can vary from household to household based on a variety of factors. Depending on the income bracket of the family, this cost will vary, with lower income families spending less on raising their children on average and higher income families spending more [2].

And the news gets worse: while the average cost of raising a child has increased by 45% in the past ten years, average household incomes have only increased by about 23%, which means the cost of raising children is growing at double the rate of our average incomes [3]. Future projections estimate that this disparity between child-raising costs and household incomes will become even steeper.

Studies have found that one potential reason for the rise in child-raising costs could be the changing community expectations of what children need in order to live a healthy lifestyle. Healthy eating and exercise costs are driving these lifestyle costs up in an effort to combat health concerns that weren’t as prevalent ten to twenty years ago, such as childhood obesity and diabetes."

https://www.budgetdirect.com.au/blog/the-cost-of-raising-a-child-in-australia.html

runner, just said:

'Personally I would consider it an honour if the Hollywood deviants were criticising me.'

The Hollywood deviant he is referring to is Bette Midler.

runner, have you mentioned this to your psychiatrist?

Armchair, please stop comparing children who don't want to clean their rooms with a violent mugger.

Homework is hard. Chores are hard. Have you tried solving algebra? It only gets harder. You have a choice, though.

Buy your children a programmable calculator, or watch them collect welfare for the rest of their lives.

The choice is yours.

Bazz: if children can read, they can be reasoned with. If they can't read by the time they're five, you've failed as a parent. The least you can do is work as their servant for the rest of their lives.

You might like being lectured to Mr o by self opinionated promoters of perversion. I'll take my advice from our Creator.

straight from Wikipedia

'She came to prominence in 1970 when she began singing in the Continental Baths, a local gay bathhouse where she managed to build up a core following.'

Hey AyameTan,

"Armchair, please stop comparing children who don't want to clean their rooms with a violent mugger."

That doesn't even make sense, so obviously I'd never say that, do you make false claims often?
You criticise religion (so do I sometimes) but perhaps there may be some parts of it that you may actually learn something from.

- At least when I do it's on a basis of merit..

"Homework is hard. Chores are hard. Have you tried solving algebra? It only gets harder. You have a choice, though."

Are you suggesting I've never done homework, chores or algebra before?

Are you suggesting I never went to school in this country, or that I never got smacked unfairly myself as a kid and wouldn't know what that feels like, or that I never had to suffer the indignity of having to clean up my own room all by myself?

You've lost me, sorry.
I'm not even sure what your talking about anymore.
- It sure aint about bushfires...

The author, is right in his assertions.
We can all speculate and try to deflect and apportion blame to a convenient and un-provable source.
If we remove ideology and subjectivity, and look at it clearly and pragmatically, removing all the parties who stand to gain or profit by this GW, CC fallacy.
Looking back as far back as you like, you will see all the cycles the earth goes through.
To say that the temperature is hotter now than previously, is a very long bow.
The records will show that all the factors affecting climate are nothing new.
What is new, I believe, is that the weather patterns have shifted to the East.
The kind of temperatures the East coast is experiencing, is pretty much what we in the West, have gone through previously at around this time of year.
I don't know who or what have taken these readings and where and when they were taken.
All these questions are relevant, because all we get is a lot of 'data' and told this is means we have caused the Earth to be polluted, and it's ALL our fault.
Well I'm sorry, I for one am not buying it.
Until I see actual and incontrovertible proof, I will keep asking questions, but I cannot accept the current hard sell I am seeing.
When I see something being pushed a little too hard or harder than is reasonable, it means it is missing something, and so to make up for it, extra effort is needed to sell it.

Well, no surprises there, the left's in full swing doing what they do best, being idiots even when they lose everything !
What on Earth are they blaming the PM for ? He didn't build their homes amongst the Gumtrees. Even with their ar$es on fire they manage to be true morons !

Not a bad opinion piece. Plainly written and generally correct.
Environmentalism and expressing concern for "the environment" is such an easy option for the unremarkable lacking in valuable skills. It makes them "important". Fear of worthlessness in a free marketplace motivates these types to advocate for state control of all activity so a place might be created where they'll be needed.
What we're seeing are the inevitable failures of the ideas of these who thought they could create a future from expressing virtuous ideals.
It'll take many more failures yet.

Oh, and it's Burning off. "Back burning" is just a method of fire fighting where a new line of fire is started ahead of a fire front to burn back toward it starving it of fuel.

Jamo, ALTRAV and individual make valid comments. I have checked the last 20 years of Coroners/Inquiries Reports over last 20 years and they all focus on fuel loads and a need for better management/prescribed burning). Jamo's comment of burn off and back burn is useful. To the authors credit, I did not know the term prescribed burn, which is the regulatory term and is what Jamo terms as 'burning back', I suppose the media use back burn to simplify things (for them, what would you expect). So lets hope prescribed burning becomes the Macquarie word for 2020, rather than some obscure, hip slang word as usual!! For those interested in the "Climate Change cultist" view, check out the BBC and Sky UK news feeds... the fires are payback for Australia's love of Coal and SCOMO... its unbelievable. I even saw a feEd that Kim Kardashian is Twitering…... Bloody hell, first Greta and now the Kardashian are this worLds font of knowledge..... Reminds me of Spencer Tracys last movie " Its a MAD, MAD, MAD, MAD WORLD!".

Allison, your posting is probably one of the more simple, sane and informative so far on this topic.
A welcome change from the norm.

Dear Alison Jane,

Any chance you can write at a high brow level? I find low brow explanations a bit confusing and difficult to follow.

MrO, if you can't understand simple and straight English, then what are you doing on this forum.
I just commended her for being so straight to the point and clear, without the usual drivel and subjective, ideological, babble we usually have to wade through here.

+1 on what ALTRAV said.
Alison's straight up. Indeed it's a welcome change from the pomposity of the wannabe set trying prove something.

Complex is easy. Anyone can complicate things. Simple's much harder.

Runner: what does that have to do with the reality of global warming?

Armchair Critic:

Here's an exact quote from you.

"They learn 2 behaviors, 'respect your parents', and 'tit for tat'.
This is an issue they have to respect you on, and it's not unfair.
It's not going to tip then into dysfunctional behavior on it's own unless you're already smacking them for everything else.

And it's not necessarily wrong to solve problems with violence, it just depends on which ones.
Think of an valid example where it would be ok to do so.

What if you were out after dark with a partner, child or loved one and were attacked?
Would it be ok to solve THAT problem with violence?
Would it be better if you and your family were harmed?"

You did compare disobedient children to violent crime. [Deleted for abuse.]

You admitted that hitting kids teaches them "tit for tat." I hope their "tat" leaves you within an inch of your life.

Research shows that your parenting style is harmful.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/05/health/spanking-harmful-study-pediatricians.html

So please tell me: how well can your children read?

AT, AC is right with his comments on discipline and parenting.
There are of course variations and deviations from any given scenario or suggestions, when it comes to humans.
I have always maintained that the "one size fits all" mentality, does not work, ever!
The perfect example is siblings of the same family, stable, loving environment.
Within that group of brothers and sisters you will find totally different and sometimes extremely wide gaps, in their behaviour and attitudes.
From what we call 'bad' to 'good'.
So we as parents have to familiarise ourselves with EACH child, and treat them individually and according to their particular EQ.
Some bad kids can change for the better, but we just don't know what it might be, so we hope that as they move around in life, they will trip over it themselves, because any attempt by anyone to help, or suggest, or interfere in any way, will only turn them away and further towards the dark side.
I choose to ask why, always, and this latest bushfire debacle is no different.
I hear people ask why did this happen?
I totally ignore and mock any connection to GW, CC, the real culprit is ultimately, the giving of rights and lack of discipline to a generation who have grown up feeling entitled and all knowing in the wrong belief that they have rights, simply because they are of an age.
Well the truth is, if those same Nancy wallflowers, had been given a lot less rope and more discipline, less BS, such as "you can do or be anything you want", we would not have this and many other bad situations today, all led by short sighted in-experienced mature age FEMALE CHILDREN!
The rise of the female empowerment, as they like to call it, coincides with the rise of all these hair brained problems we have had to endure for decades.
Maggots get back in your soap box, instead of standing on it.
We've heard/had enough, it's now time to drop the act and do away with the femilezonazi and become women again.

Dear Alison Jane,

You really are struggling with this aren't you.

Here in Victoria we have had a policy of widespread fuel reduction equaling about 5% annually. While it has had some impact the recent fires here have ripped through areas that had seen fuel reduction burns just 3 years ago.

The capacity of organisations like Park Victoria to manage the work load has been severely compromised with nearly a third of its funding cut by the last Liberal government and only small increases under Labour.

Are you happy to forego tax cuts in order to return adequate funding to these bodies tasked with looking after our fire readiness?

runner
>I'll take my advice from our Creator.
Oh I do wish you would - it would make such a nice change from your normal practice of letting the neocons play you.

>'She came to prominence in 1970 when she began singing in the Continental Baths,
> a local gay bathhouse where she managed to build up a core following.'
So do you think she should have boycotted the venue where she was most appreciated?
Do you think doing so would have changed the sexuality of her fans?

How, exactly, do you think having performed in a gay bathhouse nearly half a century ago makes her a deviant?
And why do you think her alleged deviancy devalues her opinion on matters unrelated to it?

Its o tiresome that people have to fall back on politics and aggression/abuse (same thing really these days). ALL state governments I know of have cut back on land/forest/waterway resource management over the last 20 years irrespective of Labour or liberal. I condemn them as much as I criticise the green ideologies. The best thing that could and should come out of this and the subsequent inevitable inquiries would be recommendations that all sides ( don't expect the Greens though) to agree that there must be cross bench support for increased funding and authority for natural resources to be effectively and efficiently managed. Funny Master Steele Redux, where is Sara H-Young and De Natalie,, this is the first time I have heard them silent for a long, long time... or perhaps they are on holiday. I repeat. all pollies are responsible for this mess, just as the have been with water supply and the MD Basin. I hope but will not hold my breath, as the pollies and bureaucrats will run the inquires.

Dear Alison Jane,

You write;

“ALL state governments I know of have cut back on land/forest/waterway resource management over the last 20 years irrespective of Labour or liberal. I condemn them as much as I criticise the green ideologies.”

Firstly I haven't seen you criticise them once. Perhaps you could steer me toward an instance of you doing what you claim.

Secondly here in Victoria it was the Liberals who instituted savage cuts to services and therefore the fire management capacity of agencies like Parks Victoria.

Under Labour there have virtually always been gains, albeit modest.

Can you give me a single instance where this wasn't the case in Victoria? It shouldn't be hard since you are so adamant you know the situation well enough to make sweeping statements of the kind you have presented us with.

Not being to back up such statements is a trait I find particularly tiresome so I am hoping you will be able to furnish those examples.

Altrav, what's your idea of a "good boy"? A child who plays sport for 40 hours a week? A boy who plays sport AND attends church for 20 hours a week and studies all day? He would have no time to study everything, and no time to sleep and recuperate. My father did that to me.

I attempted suicide after a few hours from boredom. Have you tried that?

Have you tried studying algebra for a few hours without rest?

Is a "good girl" a girl who wears dresses, learns hew to sew, cook, dance and dote on her partner? My father did that to my sister. She was also forced to learn the piano and ballet dancing. She (quite justifiably) is now estranged from the family.

The quickest way to end child abuse is a quick st*b to the jugular. In juvenile detention, and prison, you get free food and time to study. Which my father did not allow either myself, or my sister.

Is climate-change responsible for the fires? The prescribed burning window is becoming more limited by climate-change.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-13/is-the-prescribed-burn-window-closing-in-australia/10236048?pfmredir=sm

Prescribed burns (and other activities that reduce fuel-load) are limited by environmental and biodiversity arguments which are now surely made moot by the utter devastation of unmitigated fires.

So,

We have to intensify the PB rate to achieve the same fuel-load reductions as in the past. This means a different funding model but not necessarily increased funding, tho' this will surely result from these fires.

We must carry out PS's (and other activities) accepting possible diminishment of flora and fauna, which doesn't necessarily diminish biodiversity, against the inclination of some government departments (the 'stakeholders') infiltrated by decision-making ideologues who can't see the wood for the trees.

With the fuel-load now depleted in affected areas we have time to get things in place.

I have googled many of the places mentioned in the bush fires & found that many homes were heavily obscured by dense vegetation ! I was unable to detect fire breaks.

Individual,

Have a look at Wytallibah in NSW, it's hard to find the buildings for the tree cover.

The mayor of Glen Innes, a devout Green, blames climate change, having completely ignored all warnings for years that the Wytallibah community, of which she is a member, was a disaster waiting to happen.

Armchair critic, have you ever spent 40 hours a week practicing a physical sport? Have you spent 40 hours a week studying algebra?

If you have, were you bored? If not, why do you criticize people you don't understand?

hey AyameTan,

"You admitted that hitting kids teaches them "tit for tat." I hope their "tat" leaves you within an inch of your life."

How am I supposed to respond to that in kind?

What do you want me to act like a child myself, get petty and say:
'Awww, well I hope your parenting style results in your kid running out in front of a car and becoming road mince'

You're missing the whole point of the lesson.

I said parents have a responsibility to ensure their kids physical and emotional wellbeing.

Then I said kids learn 2 behaviors, 'respect your parents', and 'tit for tat'.
Respect your parents = social behavior you learn with parents
It means - 'Do as your told' i.e. even if you don't like it, even if you don't understand why, just do it.

Tit for tat = social behavior you learn with peers
'If you hit me, then I'll hit you. If you don't listen to me I won't listen to you. If you don't respect me, then I won't respect you.', and so forth.

Only if you fail as a parent, to talk listen and get on the same page as them, resulting in failing to ensure their emotional wellbeing will you then break the 'respect your parents' contract and force them into 'tit for tat' behaviour.
'Tit for Tat' says you need to defend and stick up for yourself when others treat you unfairly.
So when parents treat kids unfairly, it's parents themselves that break that respect your parents contract focing the child into 'tit for tat' behavior.

And it's then that they're going to become dysfunctional and use bullying and violence to get what they want
- i.e. only when they've been treated unfairly themselves as a kid in situations at home they have no control over.

[Cont.]

Smacking them for running in front of cars on a main road doesnt fall into the category of being treated unfairly, it's not going to cause them to become dysfunctional or to learn that you can get what you want using violence.
It's going to teach them a much more valuable lesson, that 'actions have consequences'

Like I said there's an argument here that says you're the one being negligent if you don't smack them.
It's your job to ensure their physical wellbeing.
- That means it's your job to ensure (under penalty of death) they don't run out in front of cars.

It's not a motorists responsibility to do your job as a parent, and they shouldn't have to live with the death or injury you've caused by parental negligence.

This is all I have to say on this because it's off topic on a main thread, and it's not respectful to the author to have our own private discussions on their threads.
Feel free to move over to the general forums where the discussions and ability to go off-topic is a little more relaxed.

Thanks again for joining the forum.
I hope alternative views don't scare you away.

Armchair, if you think it's fine to beat children to teach them that retaliation is a fair response, you shouldn't be surprised if they grab your belt.

Did you read the article I linked?

Beating them does not help their emotional or physical well-being. It does NOT. Read the article if you don't believe me. Hit a noisy dog if you don't believe me.

Dont smack them for running in front of cars. Teach them about cars. Teach them about traffic accidents and fatality rates.

"Armchair critic, have you ever spent 40 hours a week practicing a physical sport? Have you spent 40 hours a week studying algebra?"

Before gaming consoles most kids got more than 40hrs a week physical activity.
I was naturally pretty good at maths and placed in an advanced maths class, but they took me out for mucking around and not applying myself in class to give the spot to someone else more deserving.
Back then calculators were not used to solve mathematical problems.
We had to do that ourselves and calculators were only used to check afterwards.
I rarely did my homework.

Sounds like you were subjected to some form of child abuse.
- You should probably take that up with your own parents, instead of taking it out on me, because that's what it feels like.

Dear Luciferase,

From you;

“ The prescribed burning window is becoming more limited by climate-change.”

And

“We have to intensify the PB rate to achieve the same fuel-load reductions as in the past. This means a different funding model but not necessarily increased funding, tho' this will surely result from these fires. “

Wow!

Is this a road to Damascus moment for you? Luciferase finally accepting global warming.

Well done mate. I mean it. It takes a big man to step over entrenched views such as your past beliefs. Welcome to the club.

Steelie,

Cherry-picking what I've said to falsely precis my argument as "climate change did it" is a bit sad. The standard of debate, and evidence, must rise above this to reach a truth, but you appear uninterested in that.

Did I not too suggest that ideological opposition to burns is the exacerbating factor? Regardless of the Greens executive position on burns, with its stymieing caveats (where are RdN and SHY lately?), you assert that its all just a funding issue (in Victoria). Wherein the following is the support for this? http://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/papers/govpub/VPARL2006-10No332Vol2Chap7-9.pdf where I read:

"In the past 20 years asset loss and damage and natural resource damage have increased significantly despite substantial augmentation of fire protection resources. The increases have occurred in an era in which, as Mr Williams said, ‘we have never enjoyed higher funding levels for fire suppression, greater technology in dealing with fires, better co-operation between government at state and local and federal levels in dealing with these fires".

You will find too, therein, that a problem may lie in how money is spent, which is a point I made. Everyone in this country knows we are coming to grinding halt in green-tape wound by ideologically imbued government departments. The level of disaster we are seeing is one symptom of this.

You will find nowhere here where I have ever even suggested AGW is non-existent, let alone GW. I challenge you to prove that wrong.

However, I have suggested that intermittent energy sources, together with the unaffordably humongous level of energy storage required to make them despatchable, is one of the Oz left's (and your) most stupid ideas, and unshared by Finnish Greens.

I believe you have evolved here just to rip scabs and watch the ensuing fun. Try restoring your previous good reputation and stop falsely attributing opinions, either outrightly or by cherry-parsing.

Damascus, my arse.

Reflections on Nero:

Australia burns while ScuMo fiddles with himself.

MrO, you've got that all wrong, Australia burns while the GREENS fiddle with themselves and each other.
The PM, has to watch it all happen, just like the rest of us.
He has already begun the process of fixing the problem that caused the SEVERITY of this incident, not the problem itself.
For that you would have to take control of the weather and things like natural events, like lightning strikes, which happen all too often and are the norm in this country.
As to the severity and dynamics of the fire, that we can direct ALL the blame to the GREENS, as the evidence is clear.
The PM must now decide how to rid the country of this vial and self serving vermin, called the GREENS.
It is a false argument to even begin to think that this disaster had ANYTHING to do with climate.
It was a group of unfortunate weather events that coincided and conspired together, to create the 'perfect storm'.
Had one of the factors/contributors not been present, (dry heat, wind, excessive ground covered fuel) we would not have experienced such a catastrophic event, as it is being called.

ALTRAV,

The only thing that's keeping you on OLO and talking to intelligent people is that your doctors have yet to formally declare you as brain dead.

MrO, well thanks for that attempt at humour.
I would not be too quick to criticise, judging by your level of intellect, if your comments are in fact your own, I would not be too cocky If I were you.
Your arguments, and ability to understand and articulate the topics being discussed, are abysmal, and lacking in many ways.
You excel in mocking and knocking, but lacking in real content or input of any value.
I suppose one of the words to describe your comments is 'insipid'!
So stop with the smart arse comments and try to at least be more serious/mature in your attacks, this is not primary school and we are not children, or maybe you are a child, masquerading as an adult.

I wouldn't bother Altrav, they are not here to discuss the fires etc.

Bazz,

This environmental crisis is now making most people look upon you and other anti-AGW deviants like yourself as part of the problem and not part of the solution.

Unfortunately you and your kind have caused so much damage that the country may never recover from this environmental crisis. How many natural species of flora and fauna have been virtually wiped out because of your inaction on AGW and its consequential climate change.

How do you sleep at night? A bottle or two of Bundaberg I suppose.

"How many natural species of flora and fauna have been virtually wiped out because of your inaction on AGW and its consequential climate change"

We don't know but my guess is none as bushfires are a recurring event.

I wonder how many unnatural ones have been affected?

There must have been a few drug crops destroyed as well.

More to the point is how many animals and properties have been lost by people lighting fires. Obviously the vast majority of these kids and adults have been brought up with the regressive ideology. They have never been spanked in their life and blame everyone else for their crimes. More fruit of hopelessly flawed secularism.

MrO, have you quite finished?
Your not a scientist, your not an expert, you know nothing about GW or CC.
You keep preaching and chastising anyone who doesn't believe or accept that this whole debacle is not a proven and confirmed thing, merely a bunch of theories and, oh yes, facts.
No-one knows the real truth about all this so stop virtue shaming people and putting them down so you can make yourself look/feel good trying to act superior and knowledgeable.
There has been heaps of evidence and links offered but you lot don't want to hear it because it will compromise your mantra and ideology.
Josephus offered a link to a video about an interview with the guy who started this whole climate mess, in the first place, and he himself said things like CO2 is a good gas, too many people are hi-jacking the findings (facts) and making it look like the climate is in some way in trouble and that we are to blame.
He refuted such a preposterous claim.
In other words, all this hoo-haa about the climate being a catastrophe, and the world is ending, blah, blah, blah, is not true.
Go ahead check it out, it's on page 27 of another current discussion, not sure which.
Should not be hard to check which one has over 27 pages.

ALTRAV,

Wrong again. I am an environmental sociologist researching what scientists and scholars are saying. I am in a very good position to make accurate comments on the people-environmental interrelationships and their political and social causes and consequences.

May I suggest you take yourself off to university and get appropriately qualified before you make rash comments about what I can and cannot do. To date you have shown me that you are a bogan who is driven by political bias, crackpot ideas about how the world works and his hip pocket more than by facts and observation.

If you want to do something worthwhile may I suggest you tell ScuMo to start spending his 11 billion dollar slush fund on crisis relief than shoring it up to buy votes at the next election.

Children are young. Their brains, particularly their frontal lobes, aren't fully developed. Frontal lobes govern self-discipline.

https://www.healthline.com/human-body-maps/frontal-lobe

The frontal lobe is the part of the brain that controls important cognitive skills in humans, such as emotional expression, problem solving, memory, language, judgment, and sexual behaviors. It is, in essence, the control panel of our personality and our ability to communicate.

The frontal lobe is also the most common place for brain injury to occur. Damage to the frontal lobe can create changes in personality, limited facial expressions, and difficulty in interpreting one’s environment, such as not being able to adequately assess risk and danger.

Do you know what else is tit for tat? Cancer patients giving money to SSSS to they'll SSSS right-wing voters. Right-wingers tend to vote against end-of-life choice laws.

When you hit your kids, or yell at them, you're ALREADY disrespecting them.

You're teaching them to use violence to teach others. You're no better than Grelod.

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Grelod_the_Kind

40+ hours is child abuse. No one needs to do that unless they want to become an Olympian.

No calculators is also abusive. You might as well as a child to surpass Tiger Woods with a cheap $50 set of wooden golf clubs.

I was abused. Too much school and sport and no relaxation. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. It also turns Jack into a dropout (he won't have time to study). I did take it up with my father. He admitted his numerous errors and lets me do as I please.

I envied this poor child:

https://www.theepochtimes.com/chinese-tiger-mom-defends-harsh-schedule-for-son_1983580.html

It's a pity her son didn't take justified revenge.

Altrav, did you read the previous post? CO2 isn't always good for plants. The graph is a curve, not a straight line.

http://www.fao.org/3/w5183e/w5183e06.htm

Dear Luciferase,

Firstly my apologies. I have mixed you up with Leo Lane which was why I was so stunned by the post. I had imagined hell had frozen over.

From memory like I, you are an ex-Australian Democrat. The landscape has certainly changed since those days.

As to me having evolved, or probably more precisely devolved, into picking scabs off for fun, you are probably in part correct although there is a little more intent than just amusing myself.

But I will have to suffer your continued approbation because I have zero intent on adjusting the tone of my posts in the face of things like climate denialism. If I felt there was any chance of changing cemented in views it might be different, but there really isn't.

I am embarrassed for and by my country at the moment. The fact that we could vote in a bloke who took great delight in shoving a lump of coal in our faces is a case in point. I believe I'm perfectly justified in holding people to account for that embarrassment and will continue to do so with vigor. It is meant to discomfort, and to return the embarrassment, and to ridicule.

It may seem a little like guerrilla warfare given how far Australia has shifted to the right, well away from the values of a party like the ADs, but the pendulum will swing back one day.

Steelie,

Thank you for the peace-making.

You may have linked me to LL as I once took the time to disagree with his posts when nobody else would bother.

I'm an ex-Labor supporter as at this point in time, but may come back to the fold if they start making sense again. However, until they satisfy my inquiry into their policies I have expressed on OLO, and until they drop opposition to the only proven solution to AGW there is, nuclear energy, I will cleave to the dark side.

I start from a position that the aggregate wisdom of the electorate must be respected, not that it was duped in an election that was merely a messiah contest where Labor chose its contestant poorly. Shorten wanted more meet on the policy bones than his arrogantly confidant party would give him.

Morrison's coal moment was to highlight that coal, and fossil fuels generally, will realistically continue to be Australia's main energy source notwithstanding renewables penetration. I expect the LNP to take a position on emissions that includes nuclear energy to the next election. That has to be a response to the fires, apart from what I have said above re raising the intensity of fuel-load reduction.

runner,
I see you're too chicken to answer the questions I put to you last time, so I'm not holding out much hope for a response to this. But I am curious as to the reasons for your latest post.

What do you think is wrong with secularism?
Can you think of a better alternative?
What have these fires got to do with "regressive ideology"?
How do you think spanking would improve things?

Luciferase, I come from a position of disbelief.
Disbelief that people can be so easily sucked in.
I understand that the general public is, generally speaking, ignorant and un-informed, mis-informed and also guided by emotion and subjectivity, instead of pragmatism and objectivity.
These things being so, how can anyone consider an election in this, or any, country to be a viable and productive choice, expecting the govt to do what is in the best interests of the public?
I am reminded that our govt is only as good as our people, because after all, the pollies come from the public.
Albeit, a very arrogant and self important group of people who dare to come forward and essentially tell us that they know what is good for us.
And more often than I care to admit, they would be right, because the public really don't care about what is going on in Canberra until it affects them and their life or lifestyle, either physically or financially, or both.
Even then, not enough people bother to express their anger or dissatisfaction to enough pollies to get them to re-consider the decision.
In this case, regarding the fires.
It is completely unjustified to complain to the govt about not having done enough to mitigate against this latest tragedy.
If we do then we have to complain to ALL the political parties.
But, that aside for the moment, there cannot be anyone more guilty of this catastrophe than those who paved the way for it to happen.
The GREENS/LABOUR.
One side of politics had their hands tied as the other were pandering to a group of stupid, ignorant, selfish people with the maturity and intellect of primary school children.
So let's apportion blame where it's due, GREENS/LABOUR!

Altrax, the Greens and Labor haven't had Federal power for most of the past six decades. The Federal government controls much of the budget.

Can people refocus on the issue, the cause of these severe fires, namely excessive fuel load. Green and Climate Change believers want to blame it on that CO2... so with China and India (and the developing world) on "Free get out of jail cards" for their explosive expansion on Coal use, how are they going to sort this out. With all state governments cutting back on resource management (water, land, forest), all they can do is reflect on the past and provide appropriate ( more in this case) staff resources to prescribed burning programs and better land management.

And can those obsessed with religion and child abuse find a more appropriate 'space' for the discussions.

I see that some believe their labour Vic gov has increased funding and that recent (20years) formal Inquiries are incorrect in highlighting the role of fuel load and need for better prescribed burning/management work. Well what is their solution? C02 from China and India will continue yet Climate Change believers stance in this cause is unshakeable). Maybe they want China and India to be shut down by the UN and an international telling off?

Based on 'typical' cycles, we may face several more years of drought before the wet cycle returns. So I say again, what do be suggest we do, other than a return to extensive prescribed burning.

return to extensive prescribed burning
Alison Jane,
And, have forest workers cut up & collect more fallen trees in bush land in close proximity to settlements & sell them for whatever people want them for.
National Service gangs could do this work which could also include firebreaks/wildlife corridors.
The inaccessible Bush can just be left to burn itself out whenever it decides to do so.
Since human are creeping ever deeper into remote forests it is down to humans to sort things out.
The situation now demands action by people who know since the 'experts" have done nothing except get us to this point !

Aiden

What do you think is wrong with secularism? Every man does what is right in his own eyes. Look how many unborn are murdered each year.
Can you think of a better alternative? Yes
What have these fires got to do with "regressive ideology"? Putting animals and plants on the same level as humans.
How do you think spanking would improve things? Teaching people that their are consequences for action. The numerous criminals lighting fire might just think they will get more than a fine from hopelessly out of touch judges.

Runner: Abortion isn't murder. Should blood donations be mandatory? Each pint can save up to three lives, and it's far less risky than pregnancy and childbirth.

https://www.mydr.com.au/heart-stroke/blood-donations

"Donating blood is safe and easy. It takes about 60 to 90 minutes altogether.

When you go to donate you will first need to complete a detailed health questionnaire. After this, a nurse will go through the questionnaire with you and you will be asked to sign a declaration stating that you meet the medical guidelines designed to protect the health of both donors and recipients.

The next step is a brief physical examination that includes checking your blood pressure, weight, and haemoglobin level.

If you pass the screening tests, the actual donation process — which takes between 5 and 10 minutes — begins. You’ll be asked to sit in a reclining chair while a new, sterile needle connected to plastic tubing and a blood bag is inserted into a vein in your arm. One unit of blood (about 470 mL) is collected and sent to the laboratory for testing and processing.

After you have donated, you can sit back and relax with some light refreshments. You don’t have to worry about ‘losing too much blood’ as you will have donated only about 8 per cent of your total blood volume. Your body typically replenishes the fluid lost in about 24 to 48 hours while the red blood cells lost are generally replaced in a few weeks.

Your blood will be separated in the laboratory into red blood cells, plasma and platelets, and used to treat different people with different transfusion needs."

Alison: global warming makes it harder to execute controlled burns. Without controlled burns, we get these bushfires.

How many of these fires were deliberately started ? Are arsonists a product of CC also ?

MrO, the guardian article is meant to be a joke right?
She is obviously a joke, and therefore, due to the lack of reason in the premise of that article, so it makes her a joke as well.
So let me get this right, some maggot of a media nobody, writes something with an obvious political bias and lean, and we are all supposed to do what?
Take it seriously?
Listen if your the type of person that does or believes everything you hear and see, then you are a problem, if you vote as well.
You, and her, and anyone who even thinks that Morrison, living his life, is in any way responsible, or answerable to anyone, because of an act of God which became a tragedy beyond belief, when the facts are clear and unambiguous, yet you want to turn this into a smear campaign.
Anyone with your frame of mind is mentally incompetent.
You, and the author of that article must be GREENS, or you would not make such ludicrous statements.
The fact that you both did confirms your state of mental health.
Now get this through your thick heads.
The fault of the fires is NOT Morrison, but whoever/whatever started/lit them!
The fault of the INTENSITY of the fires was all down to a coming together and timing of several factors.
The heat, which had nothing to do with Morrison.
The wind, which had nothing to do with Morrison.
And the amount of "fuel" on the ground, which had nothing to do with Morrison.
Now out of all those factors, you can stop blustering on about two things.
One it had nothing to do with Morrison, and.
Two it had/has nothing to do with this alleged GW or CC.
Three, it has everything to do with the GREENS and them being charged with murder or manslaughter, and all of them being sent up the river, just for being alive.
Imagine if these bastards did not exist, at the very least, those people that died, would still be alive today.

Altrav,

"Imagine if these bastards did not exist, at the very least, those people that died, would still be alive today.".

Surely thou jesteth?

Whom do you blame for the bushfire deaths before the Greens came along?

This is a second repeat but I think it is worthwhile.

The amazing lack of knowledge of the emergency management structure
is something that will need attention.
The ridiculous criticism of the PM over the announcement of the Federal
government setting up a new organisation was amazing.
Anyone with any nous would know that the PM has to first inform the State Premiers.
He does not run around telling public servants first.
Where the PM can be criticised is that he did not give enough time for
the information to be disseminated by the Premier.
The TV is always on in Emergency Management Control centres so they
saw the public announcement and got their knickers in a twist.
The announcement does not have an immeadiate affect as most defense
assets were already in the field and the 3000 would take a day or two
to be organised.
They will not be firefighters but will be organised for the recovery.
Still, you don't criticise the commissioner as he is under significant
strain and may have been up all night. Reading between the lines I
think he understood the situation.

Every District and Local area has an Emergency Management Committee
which does not control Response function as that is the job or
whichever combat organisation is activated.
Currently it is the RFS.
There is a Disaster Plan, known as Displan.
It has three components, Preparation, Response ans Recovery.
We are currently mostly in Response mode but starting to activate recovery.
The committees provide anything the combat organisation requests,
food, buses for evacuation, communications support, such as the
organisation to which I belong that has sent a small team to Bega to
provide communication services.

It is a bit like a swan, gliding along on the surface but a hive of activity underneath.
Most of the activity never gets seen on TV.

Issy, the answer to your question: "Who do we blame for the bush-fire deaths before the GREENS came along"?
Well Issy, the answer is real simple:
NO ONE!
Some can only blame themselves for putting themselves in harms way, by building their homes in places that had a certain degree of risk.
The others were actually "acts of God", and you can blame him if you want.
People have to learn that some things are just not right, irrespective of their stupid selfish attitude.
Putting yourself and worse your children in a dangerous situation just because you're a moron that wants to feel good about yourself and show off to your friends that you are living the dream, in the bush in amongst nature and the trees, only comes back and tells you what a fool you are for thinking that you are one with nature.
Actually you are, you went up in smoke, just like nature did.
Another thing I want all these tree hugging, flower power freaks to have firmly stamped in their heads, this is life, this is normal, forests burn, animals die, it's part of what they call the cycle of life.
Stop trying to control nature, you are fools, the lot of you.
Animals die all the time, by fire and by natural everyday events like predators, and you cannot/must not, do anything about it.
Leave them alone to live or die as is natural in life.
I love it when some jelly brained princess saves an animal, takes it home, fixes it back up and then releases it back in the wild, only to watch a predator swoops down and takes it away to eat it.
It has to be one of the best karma and irony's out there today.
What a bunch of morons, and these are the people who are allowed to vote?
What a joke!

My friends dog died rather suddenly yesterday, he was only 5mths old.
The little broke was starting to grow on me too, always coming up and gnawing on my toes.
Sadly, it was far too soon for him.

Altrav: did you read the article? Global warming makes bushfires (as well as hurricanes) much worse.

"Storm surge, not wind or rain, is the number one killer in hurricanes, and climate change is making it worse.
Sea level has already risen as a result of climate change, and that rate is accelerating around the world. Current conservative projections for sea level rise by the end of this century (by 2100) are for an additional 12-24 inches, according to the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

Storm surge is the rise in ocean levels brought about by the wind and low pressure in a hurricane. When the winds blow onshore, it pushes the water higher, forcing it farther inland than normal tidal levels.
Given a relatively flat coastal plain, raising water levels by only inches can make a dramatic difference on how far inland the water can travel."

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/03/weather/climate-change-effects-on-hurricanes/index.html

Armchair: did you bring him to a vet for a peaceful injection, or did you make the poor dog die unnaturally?

Ayame Tan,

"Armchair: did you bring him to a vet for a peaceful injection, or did you make the poor dog die unnaturally"

An injection from the vet is natural?

When my dogs need to be put out of their misery, it's a .22 bullet to the back of the head.

Is Mise: vaccines are also unnatural. We should be more concerned with what is *good*, not what is "natural."

Ebola is natural. Cancer and diabetes are natural.

The "natural law" argument is often used against LGBT rights and the right to die. It's a very weak argument.

Ayeme Tan, have a look on the BOM website. The frequency and intensity
of cyclones has moderated.

Master Tan,
Storm surge is indeed related to when a low pressure system combines with the high tides to inundate land. So why do you link it to climate change trends, which show a decline in cyclones/hurricanes, to more inundation. The problem with climate change cultism, is that is cheery picks an anything, while ignoring 300 years of real ( not modelled) climate study by real scientists ( not modellers)!

Why didn't you post a link, Bazz?

Did you read the site? We didn't have GLOBAL data for most of those 300 years. Your argument is bunk.

Not my argument, the Bureau of Meteorlogies argument.
bom.gov.au

Ayame Tan, RUBBISH!
Storm surge is just that a momentary burst of wind, which pushes the water and anything in it's path ahead of it.
It is impossible for a body of the same water to be at a different level no matter the size.
It requires external forces like the moon and a large and sudden downpour, to create a momentary change in any immediate environment at any moment in time, like the tides, and flooding.
But once the unnatural phenomena, and it's influence or effect, has passed, it all goes back to normal, or mean sea level.
The places you attempt to suggest as the water rising, are in fact places where the land is subsiding.
And just shut it with the dramatic attempt at blaming anything on something which is nothing by global standards.
GW< CC are not responsible for anything.
And as it turns out, the experts are saying that CO2 is a good thing and will help re-vegetate the world and more.
So stop with the drama queen act or you will be reduced to irrelevant by the rest of us who still have the capacity to reason and understand the difference between facts and truth.

AyameTan,

You lost me.

I did read about a NASA report that the earth has greened over recent
years almost certainly due to increase co2 levels,

Ahh here it is:- http://tinyurl.com/hnuj7pe

Google Nasa report greening of earth

There are pages about it.
Perhaps we should burn more coal, grin, relax I didn't mean it; I think

Bazz, I think you'll find that you may not be too far out old son.
If there are those who know all about this farce, who are saying exactly that, in a round-about way, then it will come to pass that this whole thing has been hijacked by the bastard elite of this world to put the fear of hell up us, and in doing so get to manipulate matters from behind the scenes, so we will never get to know who they are.
I am more than satisfied that I know who they are and what they're about.
Let's hope that the rest of the population find out too, before it's too late.

You couldn't link to the relevant page? You wanted me to sift through all that?

What's the *exact* data, Bazz? How far back does it go? That's what we really need to know.

Also, deserts have spread across Africa. Did you read about that, or do you always ignore things you don't like?

https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-desertification-and-the-role-of-climate-change

Mise: to accurately measure trends, we need accurate data. Do we have accurate global data for the past 300 years? I've never found any. It's almost impossible for humans to obtain such data, since humans didn't populate the entire globe 300 years ago.

Let's hope climate change eliminates millions of conservatives via heatstroke, hypothermia and other disasters.

Hey Ayame Tan,
"Armchair: did you bring him to a vet for a peaceful injection, or did you make the poor dog die unnaturally?"

He wasn't my dog, he was a friends.
I don't think 'Dash' needed any help to die, he just needed a little bit of help to live, help he sadly never got.
I don't think he was terminally ill.
Apparently he'd been a little sick and had foamed out at the mouth prior to me going over to my friends.
When I went over sometime later he seemed ok, happy to see me and playful. I told my friend that I'm not a vet, but that I thought he seemed alright. I told her that if he doesn't eat that might indicate something's wrong and that he'd need to go to the vet to get checked out.
I saw him eat a biscuit before I left, but noticed he looked a little underweight, but he certainly didn't look like he was on the verge of death.

But no, he wasn't put down by a vet.
He was found deceased in the yard late in the morning yesterday.

Making it worse was that it was a single mum and her 5yo daughters new member of the family.

I'm curious as to the reason he died so suddenly, I wonder if maybe he's been poisoned, a main road and footpath run along the back fence where he was found.

He's currently in mortuary care (chiller) and will likely be cremated as my friend does not own the property where she lives.

You don't need to virtue signal over having a loved pet put down,
I've done it before and all I have to say on that is that it was the final act of kindness I could give my best mate.
I really shouldn't have to justify myself to you on this.
My dog was terminally ill, but not this one though;
This one still had his whole life ahead of him, which is what makes it all the more sad and pointless.

R.I.P. Dashy

Thing of most worth governments could do is legislate to remove all vegetation clearance and conversion restrictions for private property. At least then those with foresight will be able to make their properties more fire safe. The clearing bans on freehold land shouldn't exist anyway. They're just communistic state control of private property.
Repealing the EPBC act would be a good place to start.
Of course it won't happen. What we'll get is more restriction on burning off and more restrictions on building construction.
There'll be inquiries. But we know what the findings and recommendations will be. More state control of private property. Anything else would equate to an admission that more "government" isn't the solution.

Craig Kelly on the spot:

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/good-morning-britain-host-piers-morgan-rips-into-prime-minister-scott-morrison-over-bushfire-response/news-story/ab36d90238a1a357dc155c500fdd4d9f

PS Don't you just love it when Craig Kelly tries to tell Piers Morgan that this environmental crisis is just natural and we get it all the time.

'Beam up me Scotty!'

Oh yeah, "Mr Kelly we have to leave it there", a standard Leftists response when the argument goes the wrong way. ABC does it with accurate frequency.
Piers morgan turned out to be a Leftist fence-sitting git who's career will make a left turn from this !

The next big Media catch-cry will be water pollution when the ashes from the fires wash into the ocean in the next floods.
My guess is that absolutely zero is being done to prepare for that.
Now is the time to gauge absorption trenches across hill slopes & in low lying area to increase water absorption & prevent excess run-off ! The good thing is that such preventative work would be negligible in monetary terms but hugely beneficial for the environment ! The Army could easily do much of the work & if Govt had any foresight at all they would now introduce a National Service scheme that could also contribute to the cleaning up of our environment !
The need for volunteers would be reduced & they could instead stay home to safeguard their properties instead flying to the next State while their own homes burn ! It'd be win, win, win all around !

Armchair: You "think" he just needed help to live. Do you know what the vet said? Are you a trained vet?

I'm glad you put your dog to sleep. Would you do the same for a human who asked for it?

Mr Opinion, are you even willing to read what climatologists have written on the issue, or is your mind already made up? I've already refuted your sources.

How dare Craig Kelly bring in the facts and expose the swamp for what it is. The same fools who think we can control the climate are usually the ones into social justice for arsonsist and oppose sensible clearing of massive build up of undergrowth. Shows that the more education people have these days the dumber they seem to get. It certainly an art form to dumb people dowm. Journalist seem to be easy bait.

Runner, do you believe that humans can't affect the climate? Do you know what greenhouse gasses are?

AyameTan

have you read the numerous dud predictions by 'scientist' over the last 50 years. Have you considered the numerous times they have got it wrong just might mean they are wrong again? Have you consider why the IPCC and numerous other 'scientist' have needed to lie about sea rises, sea temperatures and fiddle with the data time and time again.

runner, I don't care what these idiots say about things like the oceans rising 60 - 70 metres.
From a purely common sense and practical stand point, it's just another climate alarmist misnomer.
I think a lot of the "facts", are intentionally distorted and tweaked to assist in making their point.
It appears they take localised events and try to make it the norm as if the same thing will happen world wide.
The world is one big variable and dynamic entity, always changing.
So it is not possible to get an EXACT line on it, just a close approximation.
This does not bode well when trying to make predictions, especially long term predictions.

Dear Bazz,

You wrote;

"I did read about a NASA report that the earth has greened over recent years almost certainly due to increase co2 levels"

And of course if we lost the icesheet off Greenland there would be a lot more green there to. Never mind the subsequent sea level rise huh?

Pretty inane mate.

You are right ALTRAV. You can't reason with those blinded by their flawed ideology. No doubt the couple of hundred mm of rain in Broome overnight was caused by man made climate change. Such a flawed, irrational and unscientific bunch of lies.

SR, here's a fact for you.
The sea levels will NOT rise to the levels these idiots are crapping on about.
I have done some research and as many idiots claim it will rise to ridiculous levels, (60 - 70 metres) as there are those who say it won't.
I tell you what, you go back in your corner shaking and shivering with fear over the BS alarmists are spreading about GW and CC, and I and a lot of others will calmly walk away, shaking our heads in dis-belief, and get on with our lives.
Oh and while your curled up in the corner, think about this.
If we have had such a SIGNIFICANT amount of ice and snow melt or disappear, how much did the ocean level rise by.
If it is such a large amount of ice/snow, then it should be a very significant rise, should it not?

AyameTan

You just said:

'Mr Opinion, are you even willing to read what climatologists have written on the issue, or is your mind already made up? I've already refuted your sources.'

I am an environmental sociologist and I research what scholars and scientists are saying, which requires reading everything I can get hands on (outside of AGW denialist propaganda that is).

Could you please tell me which of my sources you have refuted?

Do you know why some predictions haven't come true? Blind luck. Technological advances.

Most of them are still accurate, and many of them have come to pass.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2018/jun/25/30-years-later-deniers-are-still-lying-about-hansens-amazing-global-warming-prediction

In the WSJ, deniers again lie about Hansen
The incredible accuracy of Hansen’s climate model predictions debunks a number of climate denier myths. It shows that climate models are accurate and reliable, that global warming is proceeding as climate scientists predicted, and thus that we should probably start listening to them and take action to address the existential threat it poses.

Hansen’s predictions have thus become a target of climate denier misinformation. It began way back in 1998, when the Cato Institute’s Patrick Michaels – who has admitted that something like 40% of his salary comes from the fossil fuel industry – arguably committed perjury in testimony to Congress. Invited by Republicans to testify as the Kyoto Protocol climate agreement was in the works, Michaels was asked to evaluate how Hansen’s predictions were faring 10 years later. &#8232;
In his presentation, Michaels deleted Hansen’s Scenarios B and C – the ones closest to reality – and only showed Scenario A to make it seem as though Hansen had drastically over-predicted global warming. Deleting inconvenient data in order to fool his audience became a habit for Patrick Michaels, who quickly earned a reputation of dishonesty in the climate science world, but has nevertheless remained a favorite of oil industry and conservative media."

AyameTan

Could you please tell me which of my sources you have refuted?

I am an environmental sociologist and I research what scholars and scientists are saying,
Mr Opinion,
Don't you come up with anything yourself ? Must be dreadfully demoralising to have to wait till someone else writes something for you to read !
I like to to observe goings-on myself & form my own conclusions rather than rely on 'experts" who more often than not are dreadfully out of sync with reality. Contrary to what you've been indoctrinated to believe, everyday people can observe too, in many cases even better than the 'experts'.

Hey AyameTan,

"Armchair: You 'think' he just needed help to live. Do you know what the vet said? Are you a trained vet?"

My curiosity got the better of me today.
I couldn't let it lie, thought he deserved the dignity of at least knowing why he died.
That he was loved and cared for at least enough to find out.
So I called and spoke to a vets assistant on the phone today.
They said his symptoms seemed consistent with a snake bite.
That they tend to get sick at first but then fight it off and appear to come good, but then the they go rapidly downhill.

Even though he wasn't my dog, I feel like I've let the little bloke down.
It was within my means to put him in the car and race him down the vets, and I didn't.

Well go down tomorrow, say goodbye, choose an urn and go ahead with the cremation.
It was preventable and needless and I feel like crap about it.

[Cont.]

"I'm glad you put your dog to sleep."
- I'm not, but I had no choice.

It cost a lot a lot of money to do all the tests and keep him in the vets for a week or so trying to ave his life, only to learn he had multiple myeloma with a 100% mortality rate.
I took him back out of the vets for maybe a week, he'd gone mostly blind by then his eyes had mostly glassed over, and he was bleeding a little from places one shouldn't. I took him to the beach, his favorite place, and then eventually one day he didn't want or have the energy to fetch his ball anymore (his favorite thing) and I knew he'd had enough and was done.
The shot that killed him only cost $15, and he walked into the vets on his own legs to get it.

I was in not in any way glad that I had to put him to sleep.
I was glad however that his suffering was over.

"Would you do the same for a human who asked for it?"
I suppose that would depend on the circumstances.

Mr Opinion, I refuted your claim that GW isn't man-made.

Here's yet another article.

https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/are-humans-major-cause-global-warming

"But, what’s causing today’s unprecedented warming—are humans part of the cause?

Scientists have devised different methods to answer this question. Meteorologists and oceanographers compare the climate patterns they observe with patterns developed using sophisticated models of Earth's atmosphere and ocean. By matching the observed and modeled patterns, scientists can positively identify the "human fingerprints" associated with the changes, and they can also attribute the proportion of those changes to human activities.

The fingerprints that humans have left on Earth's climate are turning up in a diverse range of records and can be seen in the ocean, in the atmosphere, and on the Earth’s surface.

Scientists agree that today’s warming is primarily caused by humans putting too much carbon in the atmosphere, like when we choose to extract and burn coal, oil, and gas, or cut down and burn forests.
Scientists have gathered evidence and have improved their methods for teasing apart natural and human factors. Today, scientists have very high confidence about human-caused global average surface temperature increase—a key climate indicator. Their growing confidence can be seen through the successive climate assessments of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)"

Armchair Critic:

You did have a choice. You could've let him suffer and die naturally. Just like Christians do all the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6XRsJI6YxI

You could've taken loans to pay the bills. You could've worked two extra jobs. You could've sold everything you owned for him. Why didn't you? Isn't life more important to a Christian?

What circumstances make a difference when it's a human? It's still suffering.

You climate alarmists remind me of another famous person who's predictions have apparently come true from thousands of years ago, to this day.
Funny he didn't predict this event which by his reckoning would have qualified for inclusion in his predictions so long ago.
Apparently he predicted 9/11, WOW, unbelievable!
That's right, it is all unbelievable.
But talk to the right nutters who have studied, followed, researched him, and you will find that according to those people he was an incredible visionary.
Seeing as how the climate alarmists are so inelligent and do so much researching, it should not be too hard for them to know of whom I speak.
NOSTRADAMUS of course!
Now there is a name associated with foretelling of the future and all the catastrophes that we humans were going to suffer.
Funny, I don't recall the mention of global warming, rising seas, etc, and so on and so forth.
Seriously, all the events that people claim he predicted have been explained as the twisting of words to match the event.
We know that even science, cannot predict the future, and why?
Because there are too many variables and we cannot know what they are until they happen or appear.
Watching Star Trek, preparing for warp speed, is a perfect example and a fantastic fantasy.
Because, like GW, CC, you had to know where all the space debris was at the very moment you were at a particular point in time.
And as we know, there are pieces of rocks or small meteorites flying across space at thousands of kmh, so fast that if it hit the space craft, it would go straight through, and, the end.
So let's just put this down as another attempt at manipulating the public.
For why, I don't know, but it will come out one day.
Remember the Y2K bug?

AyameTan just said:

'Mr Opinion, I refuted your claim that GW isn't man-made.'

Would anyone like to support her claim?

Talking about being as nutty as a fruit cake, has anyone seen Barnaby Joyce's video where he starts by saying 'Now you don't have to convince me that the climate's NOT changing .......' and then loses the plot.

Watch:

http://www.facebook.com/7NEWSMelbourne/videos/barnaby-joyce-makes-a-climate-change-plea-in-a-bizarre-video/2090517477718112/

He's doesn't want government in his life but is happy for government to be paying him hundreds of thousands of dollars each year to be part of government.

Barnaby Joyce is representative of the Liberal-National Party voter mentality.

Altrav, how do you know Nostradamus was referring to 9/11 and not some other disaster?

Ayame, I don't!
I refer instead to his band of followers and believers, of some many years ago when he was the height of discussions as we are having today.
One suggestion was made in debunking his predictions, was that language was very different back then, and any translations could have been "fiddled with" slightly to get the desired outcome.
I did read and research him and his predictions, and came away with more questions than answers.
You see one of the reasons I will not heel to this GW CC contrivance is because I have followed such fabrications all my life, as soon as one appeared.
They all have a common agenda;
MONEY!
So forgive me if I choose to not believe another fallacy or con, based on taking readings and data, centuries old, with old unreliable equipment of the day, then trying to amalgamate the two as if from the same source, just a different day.
No, at this rate I believe GW and CC are well and truly in that category, especially when I had NASA shoved in my face as the guru of all this current fuss, but when I alert everyone to an article recently released by NASA that the world is greening again, no one took notice, and when I say no-one, I mean the moronic alarmists.
So if you won't believe me, believe NASA, and because I am vindicated, I say to them all, they can all read em and weep!

Do you know what else is often "fiddled with"? Biblical interpretations.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/voxnova/2010/05/14/avoid-intellectual-suicide-do-not-interpret-the-bible-like-a-fundamentalist/

Do you think pastors don't care about money? What do you think the weekly collection plate is for?

Ayame, that's right, but don't say too much or you'll set off all the "experts".
There is no "one size fits all" in life.
There are those who have similar traits, habits and conditions to others.
Thankfully they are in the minority, such as those in the priesthood.
But we can't paint everyone with the same brush, only that there is a propensity of a certain type of person in a certain kind of environment.
Religion has pushed it's weight around for millennia, it was the preferred way to keep the people under the rulers or elites thumbs, and therefore enslaving them.
But all the more today, if the holy books of some religions are anything to go on, they are a disgusting and savage reminder of an evil cult, yes cult.
The Torah, promotes the killing and enslaving of anyone who is not of the Jewish faith, and it is quite clear in it's resolve that the Jews are sworn enemy of the Palestinians and must eradicate them as part of their religion.
So all this BS we see on TV where the Jews and the Palestinians are having peace talks, all bullsh!t.
Then we have the Koran, which teaches it's followers that if you are not a Muslim you are the enemy and therefore you must die.
Then we have the Bible that says all these wonderful things, I admit it is the only holy book that does not advocate killing others, for any reason.
But I find it a little hypocritical that if you sin, you will be forgiven.
Anyway, the world is becoming more savvy, and slowly beginning to doubt the words and teachings of these books and religions (cults), so that eventually they will not exist.
I do however fear for what will take their place.

Altraz, why would anyone become a priest if not for the tax breaks?

It's the easiest job in the world. Ramble for a few hours every week, and rake in the cash.

https://www.ato.gov.au/Non-profit/Getting-started/In-detail/Types-of-charities/Registered-religious-institutions--access-to-tax-concessions/

What is a registered religious institution?

Your organisation is a registered religious institution if it's:

a registered charity with the Australian Charities and Not-for-profits Commission (ACNC)
registered with the ACNC for the charity subtype 'advancing religion
an Institution.

It does not matter if an organisation is registered with more than one charity subtype, provided one of its charity subtypes is advancing religion.

"Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather. For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant. 1 Corinthians 7:21-22

Slaves, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ. Ephesians 6:5

Slaves, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God. Colossians 3:22

Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven. Colossians 4:1

Let as many Slaves as are under the yoke count their masters worthy of all honor, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. If any man teach otherwise ... he is proud, knowing nothing.... From such withdraw thyself. 1 Timothy 6:1-5

Slaves, be subject to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward. 1 Peter 2:18 "

The bible also promotes slavery as an institution.

AyameTan

Can you tell me again how I think AGW isn't real? Please, pretty please.

Bush fire in NSW is really big this time. It nearly killed millions of animals. In such time all the people of Australia united together to help each other. Many of the Indian community came together with the free food distribution and clothes distribution to help victims of bush fire.Many Nepali groups conducted free food campaigns all across the country.
https://australia-ma-nepali.blogspot.com/

The bible also promotes slavery as an institution.
AyameTan,
That is just ignorant ! The term slave as used in the very early days meant working for keep & wages as in working for an employer. The term Slave was gradually corrupted & distorted from its original course & meaning just as the terms gay & partner have been perverted.

Mr Opinion, you've been belittling everyone who accepts the fact of AGW. You've tried to minimize its reality, and insulted every scientists who reports on it.

Individual: Slavery in the OT wasn't like indentured servitude. Wages weren't mandatory. Slaves were only paid IF and ONLY IF their owners felt generous. Which meant almost never in practice.

Why pay someone if you're not legally obligated to? Human decency is the only reason I can think of. Do you think the slave owners paid their slaves? They were willing to kidnap girls back then.

If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. Exodus 21:3

If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself. Exodus 21:4

And if the slave shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free: Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever. Exodus 21:5-6

If he say unto thee, I will not go away from thee; because he loveth thee and thine house, because he is well with thee; Then thou shalt take an aul, and thrust it through his ear unto the door, and he shall be thy slave for ever. And also unto thy maidservant thou shalt do likewise. Deuteronomy 15:16-17

And if a man sell his daughter to be a slave, she shall not go free as the menservants do. Exodus 21:7

The LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain. Deuteronomy 2:33-34

AyameTan just said:

'Mr Opinion, you've been belittling everyone who accepts the fact of AGW. You've tried to minimize its reality, and insulted every scientists who reports on it.'

Anyone like to second that?

We're all going on a summer holiday.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/defence-minister-linda-reynolds-confirms-she-spent-christmas-in-bali/news-story/83105d6d44f933d0b3ce801d02136d4a

Hey AyameTan,

"You did have a choice. You could've let him suffer and die naturally. Just like Christians do all the time."

Well I didn't see it that way, he'd suffered enough.
I don't think I spared any expense getting tests done or for his stay at the vets as an inpatient for those 7 - 10 days, before I took him out for his last week before he went back to be put to sleep.
That was 16 years ago now.

He was terminally ill with multiple myeloma which had a 100% mortality rate.
The only thing that might've saved him was bismuth 213, and I didn't know about it until I joined this forum.

As for Dash, I had money to take him to the vets on Saturday, but he wasn't my dog.
My friend, his owner had less of a means to do so, which is why I feel regret for not putting him in the car myself.
I didn't realise he was in such a dire situation, and I could've done something to fix it.
His death was preventable.

Went to Kmart yesterday and printed out all the photos of short life and put it in an album.
This helped the owners grieving process.

Viewing and last goodbyes today after lunch, and he'll be cremated tonight.

Putting aside the human cost of these bushfires, it's sad for all the many thousands of animals that have died as a result of these bushfires.

Yes so true and there would have been a lot less, it the prescribed/hazard burns had been done, cool and regular. That way the habitats and food sources would not have been devastated. Been looking into background of the 500 million death figure. Its an estimate promoted by an ecologist at Sydney Uni, who is using an old WWF report which is based on the number of animals per hectare. So it seems they must have used that number and multiplied it by the hectares of this fires burn. So hopefully it will be an over estimation... still too many.

Armchair: I'm glad you think suffering is inherently bad. It means Christianity hasn't completely killed your compassion.

It's a pity that in most countries, if a human wants a peaceful death, they need to hang themselves or jump off a skyscraper.

Brutal, but less painful than cancer.

If you had the money to help Dash, why didn't you offer to pay his vet bills?

'It's a pity that in most countries, if a human wants a peaceful death, they need to hang themselves or jump off a skyscraper.

AyameTan

of course if you are in your mothers womb you don't get a say AyameTan. You can be butchered like it or not although I doubt anyone with an ounce of compassion would like it.

Why did you compare abortion to CONSENSUAL VOLUNTARY EUTHANASIA?

I don't like abortion, but it's nothing like an individual choosing to end their suffering.

Ayame, I think the concerns over whether an animal, human or otherwise is killed voluntarily or otherwise is a moot point.
I am the forums pragmatic, objective straight talking member.
I do not give one thought, let alone a second thought as to whether I should do anything to put an animal out of it's misery, unless it vocalises it's discomfort, I can't help it.
I must at this time point out, that I do not subscribe to the inane practice of "keeping pets".
Is it not against the animal liberationists mantra, that the "keeping of pets", was akin to abuse, by removing them from their natural habitat or environment and taking them away from their social groups?
I'm only asking the question because I do not care what happens to animals one way or another.
If someone is so emotionally invested in something like an animal, especially when they are in the wild, watch out, they are not of sound or mature mind.
Like that jelly brain on TV getting all emotional and showing her mental instability for all to see.
Pathetic.
You see whilst she is crying like the subjective, emotional fool that she is, there were millions of other people like truckies, coach drivers, holiday goers and just drivers in general who were nearly killed at some stage, because of bloody kangaroo's, who are rejoicing in the knowledge that there are now fewer of these "PESTS" out there trying to kill them.
So objectivity, maturity, and common sense tells us that animals are being killed/dying all the time and in much worse ways than we would even imagine.
I suggest we think outside the box.

Ah, so you don't care about consent, Altrav. Would you force your daughter to marry someone she hates?

How many biology textbooks have you read? Have you read entire academic studies on climatology, or are you too lazy to read anything except the bible and its endless "begats"?

Ayame, I think you may have me confused with another topic.
I just wrote about my indifference to pets and that I don't subscribe to them.
If they are a working animal, it must not be considered a pet, like a " blind dog".
I have no idea as to why I would want or not want to force my daughter to marry someone she hates.
But, not having the slightest idea of the topic you are discussing, let me say this.
Most kings of old took foreign women as their queen, without ever having laid eyes on them before.
Evidence has it that for the most part, they lived happy lives, and collaborated in producing heirs and off-spring.
I would say that the act of sex is the highest indication of a woman accepting a man.
That's not to say that I'm sure some liaisons were more like rape, which is also customary for the day/times.
Anyway, I deflect, as this has nothing to do with the heading, I am simply being courteous, in responding and advising accordingly

Altrav, wouldn't it make more sense to send a few dozen hunters or release a virus to kill unwanted kangaroos?

It worked wonders for getting rid of rabbits in Australia.

https://kb.rspca.org.au/knowledge-base/what-is-myxomatosis-and-how-do-i-protect-my-rabbit-from-it/

Ayame, er, yeh, OK?
Sure, why not?
My position is that I have no sentimental attachment to just another animal, cute or not, I'm told how cute they are.
What the hell that's got to do with anything is beyond me.
I'll tell these stupid animal liberationists, that they are beyond help, just like their charges are in a massive bush-fire.
I have a message for all.
THAT'S LIFE!
In the Aussie bush.

For all you Climate Change Cultists, it seems that even the Task force on the California fires over the last three years. I haven't tracked down a copy of the report as yet, but media reports state that:

"Climate change played a minor role in the wildfires that devastated California in the past three years, a panel of experts said yesterday, blaming most of the damage on land management and development."

and quote comments of members at a Conference yesterday who state that:.

"Both Montgomery and Stephens advocated thinning California's forests, either through prescribed burns or manual clearing. They spoke yesterday at the annual conference of the National Council for Science and the Environment".

Sounds consistent to what the author of this article has suggested, and confirms the feelings of those comments made by many on OLO.

ALTRAV - "That's life." Hmmm. Slavery "was life" for many during the trans-atlantic slave trade. The status quo isn't always the best situation.

Alison: who paid for those studies? Did they recommend any other solutions?

Ayame, right again, but never-the-less, "that's life", because that is what happened and that was life at that time, not saying it was right, well not by today's standards, it was right by the standards of the day, until it became "not right".
We must never judge the past by our standards today.
We MAY be better people, morally, ethically, who knows?
I know if you ask someone today you will get a very quick affirmation of us being better than our forebears.
As time moves on so does society, and not always for the better, but for convenience and comfort.
That's why I am disgusted at the ME TOO movement having pushed all these soft cock ministers and govts to go after people who allegedly did something wrong to maggots so far back that it is laughable.
My point is, what they are alleged to have done, and mind you this is all on the word of some mindless maggot, a lifetime ago, was at a time when such allegations were not treated as a big deal, and that's why they were not dealt with at the time.
These maggots and their supporters are amongst some of the sickest people on earth.
Taking a pragmatic and objective look at what was alleged, tells us that no-one suffered any physical abuse.
No one suffered any grievous bodily harm.
In other words, all that happened is they got groped or touched up.
BIG DEAL!
The maggots are more the bastards here than the accused.
Those, especially those in power that went along with this egregious farce, should ALL be locked up themselves.
So by these mongrels standards, anyone alive today that erred decades ago when it was the norm, should be charged today under current day laws.
Idiots, fools, morons, mental deficients, the lot of them who went along with this disgusting witch hunt, all just to satisfy the ego's of some slutty, spoilt, mindless, poser, maggots.
Ayame, based on the social slutty standards of today's maggots, can we expect guys to be charged with rape in 50 years time?

Altraz, what are your standards for morality? Whatever god says so?

No wonder you've demonstrated a complete callousness towards suffering in this thread.

Yet another reason why Al Qaeda is more compassionate than you. Most of their victims die INSTANTLY.

Ayame, finally there's the true Ayame, I've been waiting for.
Now, let me put you straight on a couple of things.
Firstly I must warn you, I do not ruffle easily, if at all.
Secondly, I am pragmatic, objective and do not suffer fools.
Further, I am a cynic, an optimist, a pessimist and a realist, so you'll have to go a long way to get around me.
I abhor anything that remotely smells of PC.
I tell it like it is.
I don't get sarcasm and irony.
So when I say something, it is because that is what I learned researched or found out.
If I am wrong, correct me immediately, because being a proud person, I hate the idea of me saying an untruth.
So, now, you were saying?
Oh yes, MY standards for morality?
Well, you picked an easy one to answer there.
The females of today have the morals of rutting pigs, and carry on like them as well.
As for being callous, not sure what you mean.
If you mean I don't carry on like that snivelling idiot on TV at the death of some kangaroos, well what would you have me say/do?
Hold a funeral service for them?
At least you are being honest in telling us you are a supporter of Al Qaeda, now that takes some real stones broadcasting that on this medium.

Wow. You don't know what "callous" means? Do you have access to a dictionary?

"insensitive; indifferent; unsympathetic: They have a callous attitude toward the sufferings of others."

What is the proper role of a woman, according to you?

You say they are "like rutting pigs." So you think they should remain faithful to one man. So you are in favor of enslaving women. How conservative of you.

If you see an animal suffer, the least you could do is show some sympathy.

Now please. Show me how you are MORE compassionate than Al Qaeda.

If you oppose end-of-life choice, you are pro-torture.

Ayame, firstly stick to the point, when discussing being callous, you initiate with animals, but then in your response you change to humans.
I know what callous means, I simply am rational and use relativity to gauge whether or not I should give a sh!t about someone or something.
I'm not an emotional jelly brained half-wit that feels sorry for something just because you or someone else does.
If the situation deserves sympathy, I will choose how to respond.
Next point, you would do well not to try to put words in my mouth, it's one of many ways to provoke people.
Now, what is the proper role of a woman, according to me?
Well firstly she has to act and dress modestly.
There is absolutely no need to wear an inch thick make-up.
She must conduct herself in a effeminate manner.
Be soft spoken and gentle of nature.
Not some bogan, loud, slob of a slag, with the vocabulary of a guttersnipe.
Who is always the "good time girl", trying to be "one of the guys".
But seriously, the leading most disgusting thing about maggots today, is that they conduct themselves like sluts.
When the idiot women's movement and even Germain Grear said women were equal to men, I think the females, (not women) took it as a license to act and carry on like men.
So the first thing they decide to copy in their pathetic attempt at trying to be 'like men', was to get pissed and feel the need to shag someone.
When I see the pictures of these maggots unconscious in the gutter with their dress over their head and their knickers down around their ankles, it engenders a feeling of disgust and filth.
How proud a child would be with one of these maggots of today as their mother.
Is it no wonder we have these arrogant and out of control kids today, and that's just the females.

The infamous data manipulator Dr Michael Mann has landed on our shores to promote catastrophic climate change in the form of our bushfires. This is the guy who recently lost his defamation court case over the integrity of his shonky “hocky sticky” climate temperature graph (notoriously used by Al Gore to promote his renewable energy investments and global speaking tours). The Guardian of course has promoted him by publishing a “Dangerous Climate Change” essay.

It now appears Mann is here for a sabbatical in Australia (obviously has come here to lick his wounds after the legal exposure of his false 'hockey stick' diagram). So expect an increase in scar-mongering and crisis doom and gloom stuff from the ABC and The Guardian. I found the version of his Guardian article in The AGU (Amer. Geophysc. Union) magazine. Here is the link if you want to see what he says (without having to subscribe to the Guardian).

http://send.agu.org/link.cfm?r=91mmZJ_UV_QRFe4CAJS4mg~~&pe=ZpomIBSvRz2gjIG__-SSpt2MCXyy5i65GhlmPC4oG_jTu4v0tyM0Dt-0ikE0kOKQP30hnBE5JESzHyaQPJP1Xw~~&t=NGRWQ5J0isMvkbjjsivpCg~~

As this is just a entrée into his spruiking things here, he has co-authored a book (published 4 years ago!) which The Guardian and SMH will no doubt help him promote!

I bet it will become the cookbook for forthcoming recipes for the Climate Change cultists and the media to feed us with more climate crisis stories this year.

Happy ' "climate change crisis" year 2020

Altrav, it doesn't matter whether you're indifferent to an animal's suffering or a human's suffering. It's still callous either way.

There's no need to get a tattoo, either. Should tattoos be illegal? What about beer and cigarettes? No one needs them to live.

Alison, I am happy to announce that Josephus has put out a link to finally shut the alarmists up.
This is it;

https://summit.news/2020/01/09/glacier-park-in-montana-set-to-remove-glaciers-will-all-be-gone-by-2020-signs/

I can honestly say that between this article and NASA coming out saying that they have found evidence that there are places that are greening, where they did not expect, and in fact some of these places they had written off altogether, but here we are.
They have admitted they were wrong.
The same goes for Josephus's article, another reversal/retraction and debunking of GW, CC.
So all these people pushing GW and CC, can now start to really worry, because evidence is emerging at a greater rate than I would have thought possible, that this whole BS is just another scam.
Global Warming, my arse!
Even if it was warming, it has nothing to do with us, NOTHING!

Also just posted on 'Global warming garbage'

China, the US, the EU, India, Russia and Japan account for just under 75% of greenhouse gas emissions.

We know that greenhouse gas emissions cause global warming and could basically say that the above countries can be held responsible for producing the damaging levels of AGW.

The AGW denialists acknowledge the planet has been warming over the 240 years since the start of the first industrial revolution but argue that greenhouse gases have only played a minor part in warming the planet, basically to the point where they claim it to have an insignificant impact. This is the position Soot 'Beam up me Scotty" Morrison holds.

Assume however that greenhouse gases are totally responsible for all of this warming and that this AGW produced the dry hot conditions across Australia that caused the catastrophic bushfires we are experiencing in 2019/20. One could argue that Australia - that's all of us - are in fact victims of the impact of greenhouse gas emissions produced by China, the US, the EU, India, Russia and Japan, who collectively are causing the damaging levels of AGW.

So why isn't Soot 'Beam up me Scotty" Morrison telling those countries that they are the cause of our bushfire catastrophe? That they need to cut back on their emissions in order to prevent further bushfire catastrophes in Australia. Is it because he just doesn't care?

Altrav: GW has nothing to do with humans?

You mean like how the French Revolution had "nothing to do" with rich nobles hoarding all the wealth?

AyameTan

ALTRAV couldn't manage to get past first year calculus so how could you expect him to understand advanced topics like AGW and climate change? Apparently there's something wrong with him so you need to show some pity towards him.

I really am beginning to wonder if any of the Anthropogenic Global Warming believers even understand the physics and chemistry of the earths atmosphere and the variables that influence it. Forget the slurs' and slanging matches, can they please explain how the global climate models proof the theory proposed by Plass back in 1956!

Mr Opinion: I'm not surprised. As long as Altraz can eat and vote at every election, he doesn't need or want a job.

Alison: Of course I understand it. Unlike you, I read things besides the bible and right-wing propaganda.

Now tell me: who was Abraham's first-born son?

Ayame, don't take Mr O's side, remember what your mother told you about men like him, or maybe you have a little rebel in you.
Anyway, I don't need or want to know about AGW or anything related to this, what is beginning to be unravelled and exposed as a scam, because it is not the demon it is touted to be, and Aussies are not the culprits in all this.
We keep getting idiots accusing us of being the second largest polluters per capita.
Big deal, that is my answer and my position.
So whether I'm smart enough or not to understand it all, doesn't matter, if I think it's not a genuine thing.
What I do know about it I have researched and learnt from others and their reasoning and results.
So you see Ayame, we can't ALL be experts or scientists, and anyway apparently neither can they ALL agree to a consensus.

Altrav:

No, we can't ALL be experts. But we can at least TRY to understand the issues. You don't seem to care. Do you know what "per capita" means? It means "per person."

And we're not the 2nd-largest per capita. If you read an actual study, you would know this.

If you were on a jury, would you vote based on the evidence, or would you go with your gut feelings?

Ayame, firstly I DO know what per capita means, why do you think I said it.
Secondly, I don't believe we are the second largest polluter, PER CAPITA, but someone else did so I have repeated it.
I don't care, that's why I have researched a little and listened to others, who have, a lot more than me.
I don't care because more and more info is forthcoming that debunks and threatens the credibility of this GW CC farce.
I don't care because this whole thing has been built up to way over it's true level of severity, and the BS continues, like trying to blame the fires on CC, I mean come on, Really?
As for your jury question.
Knowing that ALL evidence is flawed one way or another just like the 'facts' about GW CC, I would go with a little of both, unless the evidence was so conclusive, it was irrefutable.
Anyway it all seems futile now, with NASA admitting they got it wrong, showing pics from space of places greening where they said they said would be baron wastelands in a few years time.
And as for the link Josephus has offered, why would we not believe the prediction of the glaciers being gone by 2020, it's no different than the stupid predictions of Al Gore and others, including the science industry.
Things are being debunked and reversed more and more.
I think it is time, like an election, the loser declares they have lost.
Well we are at that point currently, waiting any further to admit this whole thing was a con is like waiting to have the mercy rule in football, declared.
So to be clear, there is NO catastrophic GW or CC event that has anything to do with the severity of the fires.
It is just another dry hot summer which happened to include strong winds.
It's happened before, and it will happen again.
Like I said, this is a sh!thole of a country, with some of the harshest living conditions and environments on earth, with most of it being desert.

OK, so who said it? Do you have a source, or are you just making things up, as usual?

Ayame "Warming Garbage", page seven , by Bazz.
The part about we being the second most polluters per capita was on a link, one of the commentors put up.
There is no way of find that one.
I am surprised you haven't come across that claim before.
I don't do a lot of searching or researching, I mainly read what I come across and yet I came across it, as I do with most of the things I say on OLO.
Ayame, you can't take all this too seriously.
The earth is a big mass, not easily affected by what goes on from within.
The more plausible explanation for all this, is that it is nothing new, and being highlighted for other reasons.
If you really want something to worry about, think about this for a moment.
Because we apparently have been burning things which start off being solid or liquid.
These solids or liquids have weight.
We have apparently burned off trillions of tonnes of these, better known as, fossil fuels.
Now this would equate to trillions of tonnes of weight.
Given that we are led to believe we have destroyed, burnt them, means we have removed trillions of tonnes of matter from the original weight of the earth.
This being so, means the earth is now lighter.
Now what happens to something being kept in a particular orbit when it changes weight.
It either gets drawn into the thing it is orbitting around, or it ends up shooting off into space in an ever increasing orbit untill it breaks free of the sun's gravitational pull, and shoots of into space.
Now, let's say, just for the hell of it that the earth has been getting lighter and lighter over the course of us burning up fossil fuels.
Thereby making the earth lighter, in so doing, would cause the earth to be drawn in slightly closer to the sun.
If we are to believe this might be the cause of this alleged GW,CC.
If so, it's pointless trying to mitigate or stop it now.
We're looking at mars.
WHY?

Just quickly following on with the fantasy of global warming and the death and demise of the earth and all things living on it.
I wonder if growing enough trees as quickly as possible will help rectify this alleged problem.
Thereby, at some future point in time we end up with the weight of the earth back to where it was prior to the industrial age.
Hopefully stopping it's slowly increasing spiraling course towards closer and closer to the sun.
So why are we looking Mars?
Why have we been told to grow trees, is it to capture CO2, or just an excuse to plant a lot of trees, to increase the mass of the earth?
HMMM?
All this is a fiction of course, just like the the allegations about GW and CC in the first place.
OR IS IT?

Why should I do your research for you? Why didn't you post a link?

And no, global warming IS reversible. Learn to read.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2017/05/climate-change-global-warming-drawdown-hawken/

If we move to Mars, I suppose you'll just abandon everyone who lives on $1 a day. Typical conservative. I'm glad I gave 2 billion dollars to a particular organization 15 years ago.

I won't name them, but I'll just say that they hate capitalists like you.

Ayame, your emotions are misguided.
You can't help people if you are not rich.
You can't help people who reject and denigrate you before you even start trying to help them
You can't help principled people.
You can't help people too stupid and economically twisted that reject help from "certain" sources, because of some stupid, twisted principals and values.
What kind of principals and values do you have, living on the street?
No I'm sorry Ayame, you need to reconsider your stance, and learn that as much as you might hate the wealthy, we cannot exist without them.
If you want proof of that, just think back to communism, the great equaliser, there was no equality and no quality of life or anything else under a bunch of morons who ALL wanted to be in charge, even though they had no idea of what they were doing.
And so communism collapsed.
No as much as you and your lot hate entrepreneurs (the wealthy), without them you would all be living in the streets or in bush humpy's because NO-ONE could afford a house because there were no wealthy people to afford to start-up, set-up a company or business, and therefore no where to work or work for.
So Ayame, we need the wealthy, we need to keep them wealthy, because money is their drug of choice.
Take away the money and we are ALL doomed, not just them.

Dear AyameTan,

You will find ALTRAV a racist, misogynistic, blowhard with very little substance.

Verbosity is his go to defense. I use to find him a bit of fun when I had little to do. Can't be bothered now.

Altrav, I never said any of that. Try to PAY ATTENTION this time.

1. It's easier to help people if you're rich. Money buys food.

2. Why should I respect someone like you? Al Qaeda has more compassion than you. Sweatshop workers contribute more to society than you. Clothes keep people warm.

3. What principles are you referring to? The principle that women should be barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen making sandwiches?

4. Capitalism is the worst economic system. Do you know what a sweatshop is?

5. The wealthy wouldn't BE wealthy without their workers. They also wouldn't be ALIVE if their workers joined XXXX

6. Communism collapsed because of famine and Stalin's gulags. Fail.

Ayame, "I'll just say that I hate capitalists like you".
You answered my points for me, in case you hadn't noticed.
Read me again and you will find your points in each of my responses.

SR, Mr know-it-all.
Your not as smart as you think you are, and you opened your mouth and had it confirmed.
You see, I am all the things you say I am, and more.
But unlike you and most other smart arses, I can account for my convictions.
Morons like you and your running mates, espouse virtue, but only in an attempt at "looking good", to your peers.
Otherwise you have not a clue, of what you speak, only that you read it or saw it somewhere.
At least I don't try to act or look as if I know everything.
But the little I do know, I KNOW!
So you keep thinking you are a cut above the rest, because we know otherwise, having been exposed by your own hand.

AyameTan, This "capitalist" system that you are so against is the one that has given you the technology and the freedom to express yourself so freely in this forum.
The Russian communism failed for many more reasons than Stalin's Gulags and famines. The too frequent pogroms took away more Soviet citizens than were banished to the Gulags. (Though the true numbers will never be known outside the Kremlin.)
The workers in a capitalist system have jobs because of the wealthy and many not so wealthy who have seen fit to establish an industry or business that can afford to employ the workers. These workers can chose who their employer is and/or the location of where they work.
The rampant bushfires in Australia at present are not happening "because" of any climate change. Their intensity may be greater because of a multitude of factors that have been allowed to aggregate over the past four or so decades. They cannot be undone by a simple reduction in GHG emissions or Acts of Parliament.

GO JAY!

Altrav, would you respect someone who beat their children every day? I wouldn't.

Yet that's what capitalists do every day when they pay minimum wage.

What DO you know? You've done nothing but repeat debunked conservative talking points.

Way to ignore all the suffering capitalism has caused, Jay.

Please watch this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HjTfm_D3sE

AyameTan,
I watched that video that you gave the url for. It tells us nothing of substance. Dying whilst living within a capitalist society does not equate to dying because of a capitalist system.
Living within a capitalist society gives everyone the opportunity to develop and grow independantly.
Over the past 200 years, no truly socialist or communist country has equaled the capitalist countries for technical, medical, engineering, social or creative advancement. They invented little and advanced little from servitude.
Is it not fair that if you have extraordinary skills or knowledge that you should be able to negotiate appropriate reward? You can do this in the free enterprise society, but not under socialism or communism. There you must perform as the State dictates and accept the reward that the State determines.
Under our freedoms it is possible for us to discuss how the bushfires have arisen because of shortcomings in the management of the various National Parks, Nature and Forestry Reserves as a result of political pressures from those with socialist objectives. To criticize such State Departments within a Communist society a person would almost certainly face censure.

'To criticize such State Departments within a Communist society a person would almost certainly face censure.'

thats exactly how leftist marxist work Jay. Facts and truth are outlawed.

JCS - why do you think they were dying? Because they couldn't afford food. Done.

Pure capitalism is worse than pure communism. At least under pure communism, you get free food.

Capitalism leads to poverty, which makes it easier for ISIS to recruit desperate people.

Criticising the CXXXservative government doesn't help if they won't do anything. Fail.

Ayame, there are many flaws and faults with EVERY form of govt, because it, the govt is made up of people.
The kinds of people who aspire to the office or position of a govt minister, is a very dishonest one with a self interest agenda.
They are the epitome of a con-man.
This applies across the board, whether democracy or communism.
Even though the difference is becoming less and less obvious today, we still have a far better system than most.
I will say one thing that even though we are free to live our lives, we are getting more restricted by the day, all in the name of safety.
In other Western countries people can create, invent and enjoy the fruits of their labour and abilities.
Not in Australia!
We are so burdened with rules, regulations, and laws, that it is not possible to create freely anymore, without falling foul of some pathetic govt blockade.
These blockades have appeared as of the 80's, and only gotten worse.
I imagine if the same thing happened in a communist country, they would let you free to create something, but after it was finished, the govt would claim it for the state.
F#ck that!
But, I suppose, at least you weren't hampered by regressive laws or thinking.
Now, what's this about beating my children?
Ayame, WTF, are you on?
OK, I'll bite, if I have to slap the sh!t out of my kids, they must be proper little arse-holes, in which case they deserved it.
If more kids were disciplined from the beginning, we would not have the kind of garbage we have in society today.

Capitalism is inherently WORSE. Do you know why HMOs deny so much healthcare? Because they make money by doing so.

If con-men become politicians, why do you trust the current government?

Aren't right-wing parties supposed to loosen corporate regulations? Isn't that what they've been doing for decades?

On the upside, if enough people join $$$$, capitalists like you will go extinct.

Hey AyameTan

"If you had the money to help Dash, why didn't you offer to pay his vet bills?"

He never got to the vets.
He wasn't well and his owner messaged and told me he was sick.
I went to visit sometime later, possibly the next day around lunchtime and he seemed alright.
He was playful and happy to see me.
I told my friend that he seemed ok but that I wasn't a vet.
I said if he shows any signs of worsening or if he doesn't eat then we probably have to take him to the vet.

My friend found him dead in the yard the following morning.

I spoke to the vets the next day and they said it was likely a snake bite.
But my friend spoke to them a day or so afterwards and got a different story.
The vets told her that if it was a snake, he wouldn't have lasted as long, he'd have died sooner.

She spoke with them at length, and their best opinion is that poor Dashy might've had some kind of congenital problem, all along.
It may have been that Dash was never really well to begin with.
They said that the kindness he got from my friend might've extended his life some.
They said their best guess is that Dash most likely died from a heart attack when other organs were struggling to cope.
That's the info I have, my friend probably knows more.

His little send off was better than many people get.

His viewing was more of a shrine.
He was covered in his blanket, his balls, chew toy, drawings from my friends daughter, letters, notes, flowers, photos, and other small items.
We even some lit a couple of tea-lite candles for him on one of those 'white plaster children' type statues.

We played a songlist for him.
I liked 'Spirit in the Sky', never heard that played at a funeral.
http://youtu.be/AZQxH_8raCI

He was cremated a few hours later.
He got the dignity he deserved and it allowed others to grieve his sudden death properly.

"Pure capitalism is worse than pure communism. At least under pure communism, you get free food."

No that's not right, under Communism, you all work the fields, and when there's not enough to go around, they take 500 or so out into the woods to dig their own graves...

Ayame Tan,
Under Communism,as history showed us, if you have food that the Government didn't give you - summary execution for all the family.
Under capitalism, if you have no food, there are many charities that can provide all that is needed. The Government can also afford to pay a Pension to all who need one.
Under capitalism, people are pulled out of poverty and rewarded for effort.
Under communism, the people are told that poverty is good as all are equal.

Also under your dream Communist Government, all the arsonists that have lit over 80% of the Australian bushfires this season would not have to worry about a Judicial hearing with a Magistrate.

Armchair critic,
What an inspired song for Dash's farewell.
I am sure a few memories and tears were flowing.

What "dignity," Armchair? Sounds like he suffered in agony for days.

And no, that's Stalinist totalitarianism. What's the highest level of education you've received?

A Tan, you really need help over social pleasantries and meanness. People who own dogs do so because they love them, while you seem to have issues with everyone. Chill out.

If they loved their dog, why didn't they end his misery sooner?

A Tan, you worry me. Have you ever owned a dog, the domesticated animal known globally as "man's best friend". Based on your views, I should have shot my last 40 years of dogs the first time they vomited up on the carpet!

You really should seek counselling, you might have a serious illness, and maybe should ask Armchair Critic to put you out of your misery (A Tan, just in case, that was a joke)

Why would I kill a dog for vomiting on my carpet? Would you kill your child because it vomited on the kitchen table? I wouldn't.

I think you don't know what genuine suffering is. Have you tried the 40-hour famine? I have.

Ah.... so your a fat old thing, as well as a hater of everyone!. I say again, A Tan, chill! OLO is meant to be about ideas and discussion, not bile and spit.

Ayame,I think I have you sussed.
From your own comments, I learn that you are an emotional person.
You are also irrational.
You are over endowed with subjective reasoning and lacking in objectivity and maturity.
Maturity is something you are born with, unlike when an apple is mature, in humans it has to do with EQ.
You appear to be far too sensitive to the plight of anything and everything, but mostly animals.
You remind me of a young girl my son was dating once.
My son and her happened to walk past a homeless person with a dog.
As they walked on she started to tear-up, which led my son to ask; "what's wrong"?
To which she answered, sobbing, "that poor dog"!
When I denigrate certain people for being WRONG, or stupid or immature, I am referring to people like yourself, who lack the ability to rationalise and assess a situation, instead of taking the "childlike" view about everything in life.
And so it is, because of people like you, that you should not be allowed to vote or comment on major issues.
Your thinking/decisions are irrational and therefore irrelevant.

You sound irrational too. I think we all are, to a certain extent.

Maturity must be developed. Do you think infants are born with the discipline to study six hours a day?

What's wrong with having compassion for humans AND animals?

I guess if you're religious, you love suffering.

1 Peter 4:16

But if anyone suffers as a Christian, he is not to be ashamed, but is to glorify God in this name.

Ayame, cut it with the religious crap.
You don't believe that stuff any more than I do.
I am quite the opposite to irrational, ask anyone on the forum.
Now another of life's lesson's for you.
You are born with maturity, and it becomes obvious from whern you are still a child and confirmed as you grow up.
I have seen five year old's with more maturity than a seventy five year old, so no you don't 'develop' maturity, you are born with it.
If you need proof, just look no further than here on OLO.
We have the in house clown and know-it-all, that knows nothing, MrO.
Then there is his running mates, SR, who also see's himself as a source of information, when in fact he is a source of mis-information.
And Paul, who has also, like his mates, always got it wrong.
They were all, somehow, attracted by the dark side, but now maybe they can see that thanks to Josephus alone, and his continual bombardment of the truth behind this GW, CC fraud, that they can retreat and reconsider their position!
I suggest their position be more open to believing that denying this whole farce is more likely than what they have been pushing.

Hey Alison Jane,

"What an inspired song for Dash's farewell.
I am sure a few memories and tears were flowing."

Yes it was a good song, and yes the tears were certainly flowing.
It's a little bit upbeat rather than being so sad and depressing.

My friend played a couple of others but I think that one was the standout.

Hey AyameTan,

"If they loved their dog, why didn't they end his misery sooner?"

Dash's condition was completely different to my other dog, Buddy, and his condition 16 years ago.

Buddy was in the late stages of leukemia, his eyes had glazed, he was bleeding from his privates, his spine became more pronounced and he was starting to have trouble breathing.

Even so, I let him show me when he'd had enough.
And even then, he walked into the vets on his own 4 legs.

Dash was a completely different type of situation.
I saw and spent time with him no more than 12 hours before they found him passed away in the yard.
He didn't seem 100% but he was still happy and playful.
- If he'd have looked like he was in any kind of a serious or dire situation, trust me, I'd have taken him in to get looked at no question.
- But he didn't.

He may not have gotten 'dignity' in the form of being taken to the vets when he should've been, but we did our best to show that he certainly was a loved pet and will certainly be missed.

Dash was only 5mths old. He still largely had the look and temperament of a pup. Growing into a dog, but still in puppy stage none-the-less.
All he wanted was another moments attention and to play.
- Or he'd come and gnaw on your toes or start chewing on your leg.

What does level of education matter?
My IQ's 129, and I think I learned more off YouTube than I ever did at school.

It makes perfect sense to only steal from the rich. It means they'll have less money to elect right-wing zealots.

Ayame, you just keep on throwing up them pearlers don'tcha now.
Keep it up, your well on the way to being ignored.
Although some of your comments are quite funny at times, especially since you are serious when you write them, and believe in what you write.
So it's OK to steal from the rich, you say?
I would really love to hear the reasoning behind that doozy of a comment.
What is wrong with you people?
Just because you can't succeed in your own right, I know, it makes you angry, jealous, and envious.
Your problems are due to your lackings, and stubborn attitudes.
There are many average people who became rich, do you also hate them too?
I'll give you a little lesson on how to become rich just doing your job your doing right now.
Start by not drinking, or smoking, or going to any stupid social activities that cost money.
Don't buy clothing or shoes beyond the cheapest ones you come across.
Forget being a fashion statement, that is a waste of money.
In other words, stop living a life of waste and irrelevance.
I'm not suggesting anything that is not being done over and over.
Those same women, now own one or more properties, and they will be retired long before her and her friends reach menopause.
So the moral is stop blowing money on sh!t, tidy your life and lifestyle up, and the bank balance will rise very quickly.
But if you carry on like the bulk of today's, well there is no other way to put it, sluts, then carry on keep deluding yourself that you're having a good time, but DO NOT bag those who have not lived a life of waste and recklessness, for being responsible, mature and forward thinking, but most of all, which you obviously lack, is discipline.
If you are not disciplined, you will not succeed, in ANYTHING!
Remember, DISCIPLINE!

AyameTan
It makes sense to steal?

Well go on then, go steal stuff.
Go lead a life of petty crime and see how far it gets you.

Does A Tan really exist?

Are they a Russian/Northern Korean 'troll' or just the next generation of artificial intelligent 'bots', that act like a humans, but just have that missing element that gives them away as not being human?

If not, A Tan needs help to focus their mind on what's important about life on this small blue marble of a planet.

That's the question my wife and I ponder over our evening glass of wine.

The rich didn't earn their wealth, Altraz. Their workers made the widgets.

Their workers deserve the proceeds more than a lazy fat cat who signs documents and eats lobster all day.

How much discipline is enough? Should a 12-year-old study for 20 hours a day? 16? 12?

If they don't have time to sleep, how will they be able to concentrate during their exams?

You sound like a child abuser. Do you know the best way to end child abuse?

A stab through the SSS SSSSSS. Instant end to the abuse.

Armchair, would you rather steal or starve?

Ayame, you have a problem, your rambling, and incoherent.
I would like to suggest, pick a point and go with it.
Right now you are commenting on entrepreneurs and your suggestions they are exploiting the workers.
Well if they were working for nothing, I would agree.
They get paid the amount agreed upon before they started working for the company.
If they did not like the pay or conditions, they MUST leave or they will not be happy working there.
What they can do also is ASK, (not demand) for a raise, if rejected, they also MUST leave.
It is insane people like yourself, who seem to think that you are not allowed to choose where you wish to work.
So if you accept the pay and conditions, you begin working for that company.
Where the f#ck do stupid people like you get off accusing a company of enslaving workers, in this day and age.
Now your other annoying beef, discipline.
What is it with you and discipline.
Yes we should have had more of it going back to the past, so we would not end up with sanctimonious, little smart arse, entitled, ignorant, arrogant idiots like yourself, continually getting it wrong.
How much study is enough?
Christ I don't know, as much as is necessary I guess.
What a stupid question.
Before you keep on about this question, I suggest you give us a little background on it so we know how best to answer it.
Otherwise, don't bother, it will be relegated into the bin of "how long is a piece of string"!

Ayame Tan,

Under no circumstances is it morally right to steal from anyone, be they rich or poor. It doesn't matter what you intend to do with the proceeds of crime, it is not morally right.
Those poor down trodden workers of yours making the widgets, if it were not for the "rich bastard" bosses that you despise, those workers would not have a job at all and no income.
It may surprise you, but scattered throughout Australia there are many businesses that struggle to make any real income for the bosses as all of the income not taken by paying for raw materials and utilities is required to pay the salaries of the workers. Often after paying significant Government fees and charges.
Under the socialist and communist Governments to date, there have never been any successful widget manufacturers catering for their own populations. The widgets that they have been able to manufacture and sell have always been copies of products developed in free enterprise capitalist systems.
The discipline that many people need to keep them heading in the right direction does not have to be literal punch or slap but may take the form of a metaphorical one. Sometimes needed to save a soul from themselves.

Why would I stick to a point when I've already addressed all your arguments?

Do you think minimum wage is fair for a sweatshop worker? Please read this article.

https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-forever-21-factory-workers/

They can only "get a better job" if they have the needed qualifications. But ANYONE can steal from an idiotic boss who wears a $50,000 suit.

Why is all you care about widget manufacturing? Isn't having a full belly more important?

JCS, it may not be "right" to steal from someone, but it is understandable if you're starving on the streets.

I guess 5-year-old African orphans should just die, correct?

Do you know the easiest way for ISIS to recruit killers? Poverty.

Google female suicide bomber.

Ayame, what do you want?
Do you want me to say that all the starving and poor people of the world should be ignored and let die?
OK, if that's what you want to hear, I'll agree, because there is NO WAY of helping these people.
It may come as a shock to you and any other jelly brains out there, but if they know that they are in dire straits, because they are so poor they have to rely on govt and foreign aid for food and whatever it takes to survive, then they have put themselves in this position, and should be left to resolve it.
Even if it means, and it will, that they will die, because of their stupidity to keep having kids, when they themselves admit they should not.
Nature is a cruel bitch, but it is what it is.
Under normal circumstances these people would die.
Keeping them alive is doing no-good to anyone, including them, because they know what is in store, and most of them accept it, because they cannot be saved, even with govt assistance and handouts.
So if left to their own devices, they would all be dead by now, that's nature, that is the natural course of events.
As for, is minimum wage fair for a sweatshop worker?
Well obviously it must be, to those working there.
It may not be to you, but that's none of your business.
I imagine if you went there and tried to convince them to leave, they would more than likely attack you and throw you out, for putting them at risk of losing their job by talking such nonsense.
They are getting exactly what they agreed on no more, no less.
It may not be to your liking, but until you put up the money and start up a sweatshop and take all the risks, shut up, you have no idea what you're talking about.

I want to end capitalism.

You can imprison terrorists and criminals, but you can't resurrect SSSS voters. Capiche?

Nature is a cruel bitch? Did you get vaccinated? If you did, then you're a hypocrite.

Do you take painkillers? If you do, then you're a hypocrite.

Again, Al Qaeda is better than you. The 9/11 hijackers died INSTANTLY. What more do you need to know?

Ayame, WTF are you on?
Slow down, one insult at a time please, I am having trouble keeping up with you.
Now, calmly, tell me what it is you are trying to convey, one topic at a time, and expound on it a little, so I may get the 'feel' for what you are trying to say.
Firstly, I don't know what SSSS voters means.
Also would like to know why you want to end capitalism, because without it we would be screwed right now.
Now as for getting vaccinated, you must be kidding.
You mean to tell me you don't know the difference between getting run over and throwing yourself in the path of the same vehicle.
Seriously, getting vaccinated is prevention, someone screwing madly and dropping kids knowing full well they are going to die of starvation is pure stupidity and selfishness.
I enjoy a good screw like everyone else, but I'm not stupid and selfish enough to do it without protection, if I did not want kids.
So NO, I'm sorry but I don't care what happens to these people who are obviously too stupid to realise the consequences of what they do is going to kill them.
As for the rest of your comments, painkillers, 9/11, not sure what your trying to say.

"Armchair, would you rather steal or starve?"

I'd rather starve. You know why?
Because every single person in this country is entitled to welfare if they're not working.

So with that in mind, if one needed to steal it would not be because he or she were'nt already given the means to eat, it would be because of his or hers own inability to budget what he or she had;

In which case if they find themselves with no food;
- Then it's no-one else's fault except their own.

If I was in such a pathetic state that I could not make ends meet or feed myself on $500 - 600+ a fortnight, then I would not only deserve to starve, but I'd deserve to die and it would be my own fault, and I'd be doing the country a favour if I did.

No-ones forcing you to be a worker, you have every opportunity to build something of your own.
We can't all be bosses and we can't all be workers.
It's your choice to be what you want to be, don't blame anyone else for it.
I've got family who've built successful businesses mowing lawns.
Do you think you have some entitlement to take what he has?

Don't tell me you can't do it.
You just don't want to because you already believe that you're entitled to piece of what everyone else has;

Because you identify as a victim.

How can a person be proud whilst advertising themselves as a victim?

It's not about equal outcome, it's a bout equal opportunity.
If you don't like how things are do something about it.
- If your not prepared to take responsibility for your own life and do something about it instead of demanding something on the basis of victimhood, then you don't deserve anything.

Stop being the victim, take responsibility for your life choices, and if you don't like the way things are do something about it.
- Just don't whine to me -

Trouble keeping up with me? Go on. Keep exhibiting your low IQ for all to see. Didn't you ever learn to read between the lines? Let me try again. What's the 100% best way to stop someone from voting?

Getting vaccinated goes against nature. FAIL!

Also, sweatshop wages aren't fair. They only exist because, well, capitalists own the guns.

If all the farmers died, committed suicide, or burned their crops, how would you eat? Hopefully, your children will eat YOU.

Why do you think desertification and poverty are spreading like wildfire? Because of greed. Which is the fundamental tenet of capitalism.

Wow. The 9/11 hijackers died instantly (and therefore painlessly). Cancer patients do not.

That's why Al Qaeda is better than you could ever be. Done.

Do you support Al Qaeda?

"Keep exhibiting your low IQ for all to see."

I think you're the one advertising it to everyone.
The best is a mixture of both capitalism and socialism.

I don't support Al Qaeda. I just think they're better than conservatives.

And also that a painless death is always a good way to go. If you think palliative care always works, you're just plain wrong.

Hey AyameTan,

"Hopefully, your children will eat YOU."

- I think you may benefit from a mental health check.

Armchair, I think you need to try this poor boy's schedule for a month. See how you hold up.

Please record how many hours of sleep you get each night.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/chinese-tiger-mom-defends-harsh-schedule-for-son_1983580.html

AyameTam,
I can only speak from the perspective of living within Australia for over six decades, but I have witnessed first and second hand good and bad. I read relatively widely and seek out information beyond the banal media sources.
Global perspectives show that without a capitalist economy, societies stagnate. It is only when there is reward for effort that societies advance. All of the major advances in medicine, technology, engineering, quality and quantity of life and social welfare have come from within capitalist systems.
No person with any moral value can admire AlQueda. Those AlQueda agents who flew those four airliners into buildings and grounds on the 11th of September 2001 were not and are not "martyrs", they were murderers. They intentionally killed over two thousand innocent people who had no connection with the "enemy" as identified by those murderers.
Please reconsider the fact that you are able to engage in a free dialogue here on this forum is thanks to us living in a democracy that is maintained from a capitalist philosophy.

If you think capitalism is good on balance, you need to rethink your priorities.

Why is economic growth at all costs a good thing?

I'd rather be poor and happy, with enough leisure time, than rich and working 60 hours a week.

If ISIS and Al Qaeda targeted LNP conventions exclusively, the world would be a better place.

I'm NOT advocating violence. I'm just stating a fact.

AyameTan,
No, in your penultimate sentence, you are most definitely advocating violence.
It may surprise you that there are many millions of Australians who do not work 60 hours a week and yet on many metrics are very well off financially and quite happy with their lifestyle.
At no stage have I postulated that we must seek economic growth at all costs. Moderated economic growth can benefit all within that economy as it is only with growth that that society can provide services such as healthcare, education, transport infrastructure, welfare and internal and external security.

Armchair, I think you need to try this poor boy's schedule for a month. See how you hold up.

Please record how many hours of sleep you get each night.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/chinese-tiger-mom-defends-harsh-schedule-for-son_1983580.html

Do you know who Florence Nightingale was? Medicine advanced leaps and bounds. I don't think anyone would accuse her of being a capitalist.

You didn't postulate economic growth at all costs explicitly, but you implied it. What do you think capitalism is?

"Armchair, I think you need to try this poor boy's schedule for a month. See how you hold up.

Please record how many hours of sleep you get each night."

Why would I want to do that for?

I don't understand the relevance of your question, you're talking in riddles.
I don't understand the point you're trying to make.
I don't need to learn how to count or read.