No. They have not been pushed down about as far as they can go; they can go to zero or minus, as they have n Demmark.

Well...when the movement of the white elephant is governed from the ivory tower, a different sun rises each morning to those trampled to death by its chaotic march.

Very shortly, if this keeps up, the only interested parties to economics as it should be...not as it is on the dangerous ground underneath the white elephant, will be the residents of the ivory tower.

Since thirty percent of their diminishing economy has been usurped by the black economy, inclusive of those of the desperate, trying to survive the bureaucratic nightmare. Mostly by dodging taxation with cash in hand payments, by our solid middle class tradies, and whoever else can get on board.

And worry not about the jobless, they have long ago left the platform, and joined the drug train on another entrepreneurial march towards making Australia not only the gay capital of the world, but the drug capital of the same world.

Best of British with this one!

Dan.

The RBA is limited in what it can actually do! Not so the federal government! If we would boos the economy and grow jobs? We need low-cost energy, low cost desalinated water and the adoption of government facilitated and funded, employee-owned and operated co-ops.

Co-ops were the only PRIVATE ENTERPRISE, FREE MARKET, BUSINESS MODEL, that survived the great depression mostly intact.

Why?

Because they above all else are far and away, the most efficient and productive, private enterprise business model and inherently free of unproductive union interference! And flexible in every sense of the word!

In fact, unions would and are very antagonistic to this business model because it completely deals them and their influence right out!

Vastly cheaper energy is possible only as deprivatized publicly owned, not for profit enterprise or co-op owned and operated facilities.

The latter being the most cost-effective and productive, by a country mile.

The lowest costing energy just has to be MSR thorium!

The lowest costing desalinated water is as proven in Texas field trials, is, deionisation dialysis desalination and so much so as to be available for cost-effective broad-scale irrigation!

Now how is this to be funded?

Well here's how!

We can agree now today and without delay to set up a safe repository for the world's stockpile of nuclear waste. And without allowing the obstructionist naysayers to have any further say! Just do it!

And with the deal done as a done deal, earmark the annual billions this service provision would generate as the funding for all the foregoing!

One can only wonder why we haven't done this already? Save the farmer suicide rate and the death by curable cancer, just doesn't concern our gormless, useless baggage. That calls itself a national government!TBC.
Alan B.

We need a referendum to get rid of almost useless double handling state governments and replace them/their role with a combination of local government and federal government, without need to increase the workforce of either. Assisted by and large by a means-tested direct funding model for both health and education, as an endowment payment the client or parent directs to, competing for the public funding, entities.

And assisted by vastly increased regional autonomy and volunteer boards that run our hospitals, water boards etc etc as they did when we were deep in the grip of the great depression.

And in the process, created some great, caring and inclusive communities and vibrant co-op ( cooperative capitalism) based regional economies. And in the process, liberate an additional 70+ annual billions that can be charged with nation-building, infrastructure projects, etc etc.

Or we can fiddle about a bit with counterproductive stuff like quantitive easing and wait for it to rain or this or that, debt-laden, tax-avoiding, price gouging, profit repatriating foreign investor to come here with their gold plated business models and make the whole thing far worse and we Australians, tenants in our own country! Or back to waltzing Matilda!?

The latter, a job almost half done and with the splendid cooperation of compliant, corrupt and crisis riddled governments? (100 million in corporate funding for a political party?) Little wonder they do not want funding arrangements to be transparent and reported in days, not the months and years pertaining to the present system.

If you hand over your money? You expect something in return? Don't you!?
Alan B.

"Wanted: some out of the box thinking at the RBA"

Wishful thinking. Bankers are not renown for thinking out of the box.

"Wanted: some out of the box thinking at the RBA"
The Public Service Senior bureaucrat Union needs to be put outside the box & made to think about the damage they've inflicted on this Nation ! The RBA won't pull the brakes on the bandwagon because they're riding on it themselves !
Public Service Senior salaries need to be brought back to realistic levels & should not be more than ten times the minimum wage. Any more & it becomes theft !

ttbn

You wrote that "No. They have not been pushed down about as far as they can go; they can go to zero or minus, as they have in Demmark".

But the reality is that lower rates did not raise business investment. In fact, Denmark is now at risk of a recession if growth in the world economy fizzles out. Both DK and AU are open economies, subject to global economic machinations, but DK is better off as it has 27 EU tariff free neighbours to work with. We don't.

If we lower rates to zero and investment remains unchanged, which is very likely because it isn't rates that so much determines if a company invests as the industrial relations landscape, what then?

Alan you write:

"The RBA is limited in what it can actually do! Not so the federal government! If we would boos the economy and grow jobs? We need low-cost energy, low cost desalinated water and the adoption of government facilitated and funded, employee-owned and operated co-ops".

But why should the taxpayer be on the hook for such multi billion dollar spending? Surely there is a MAJOR problem when rates are at rock bottom yet businesses are not scrambling to invest in such infrastructure. Why? Are the risks too great? Is the fact that they have to pay world leading wages the problem?

Alan you go on to write:

"Vastly cheaper energy is possible only as deprivatized publicly owned, not for profit enterprise or co-op owned and operated facilities".

I don't agree. Cheap energy can be provided by the private sector IF the gov't regulates a certain return on a company's investment AND manages the basis upon which that return is calculated. So that you don't get a repeat of the gold plating of electricity infrastructure that took place in the past with a singular objective: to maximise the regulated return on investment.

Several things come to mind.
Firstly, how is the economy supposed to grow?
It doesn't just grow because someone decided it should.
There are certain things that are holding back any form of production, let alone growth.
And that is; wages.
You can all scoff as much as you like, but as long as we are one the highest paid countries in the world, we're not going anywhere.
Now as far as our water, electricity and other entities that were public utilities, they need to be taken back.
And I mean TAKEN!
The bastards who own them now have gouged enough out of us, it's time to "drown the rats", and get on with our lives.
We must take back control of these public services.
The govt has the power to "re-possess"them without the blink of an eye.
I wonder how accommodating the govt would be if the whole country voted, in the form of a referendum or just made it known that we wanted those utilities back, and for free, would they follow through with the wish of the people, or would they chicken out and pull a Brexit?
We have allowed these pricks to sell off EVERYTHING, from the fixed assets to the transients like water.
Then instead of getting a leg up financially we have to listen to these bastards lying to us saying things like "we have been paying too little for our electricity, and this can't go on", why?
No while the majority of Aussies are worrying about a few queers and the correct name to call them, these mongrels are having a laugh, all at our expense.
There's your problem; until Aussies grab a brain and get off the drugs and the bloody sports, we're all going down.
I can tell you, for someone like me who has a better idea than most as to what's going on, it's killing me to witness the death of this country and ultimately it's people.
But don't you all worry about it, crack another tinny and turn up the footy.

Hey ALTRAV

You wrote:

There are certain things that are holding back any form of production, let alone growth.
And that is; wages.
You can all scoff as much as you like, but as long as we are one the highest paid countries in the world, we're not going anywhere.

My comment:

I agree. So long as we continue with a raw material export mentality and politicians that look after their own supporters, with little motivation to build a truly competitive economy with high value added manufacturing sector like the US, Germany, Israel or Singapore, we'll be parked at the station as you say, "going nowhere".

Altrav,

Also, You wrote:

Now as far as our water, electricity and other entities that were public utilities, they need to be taken back.
And I mean TAKEN! The bastards who own them now have gouged enough out of us, it's time to "drown the rats", and get on with our lives.
We must take back control of these public services.

My comment:

I hear your critique, but your solution is not the only one to achieve your aim. Your solution, nationalisation or similar, would scare off foreign investment. What is far fairer and would achieve similar outcomes (desired by Australian consumers who are the former owners of the said infrastructure) is to legislate caps on how much the eye gougers can charge. And if the profiteers threaten to vacate the field claiming that the cap will make their businesses not viable, then let them vacate. Call their bluff. I am sure there are plenty of firms who'll happily move into this industry in their place,

You wrote:

We have allowed these pricks to sell off EVERYTHING, from the fixed assets to the transients like water.

My comment:
Selling per se is not IMHO, the problem. Selling in an asinine manner (ie without thinking through the ramifications) eg selling Sydney's Kingsford Smith Airport to a private company and giving that company the first right to develop/operate any new airport in the Sydney basin is appalling gov't behaviour, which only entrenched a consumer unfriendly monopoly and promised its shareholders rivers of golden returns.

The Americans can teach us a thing or two about running an economy: unlike ours, their major airports are not privately owned.

You wrote:
I can tell you, for someone like me who has a better idea than most as to what's going on, it's killing me to witness the death of this country and ultimately it's people. But don't you all worry about it, crack another tinny and turn up the footy.

My comment:
I don't doubt you. Maybe things have to get pretty dire here before most folk will wake up and smell the coffee.

JJA,

even then, I doubt they will fully understand what's going on.
No I believe that the thieves we voted in over the years have had an evil and self serving agenda, and completely free hand to do what they wanted and say what we wanted to hear.
A major problem being that govt ministers are just people with no experience at running a country, let alone running a business.
They are in the job, only for what they can get out of it.
Our well-being is not on any of their minds, irrespective of what you or anyone else believes.
Once upon a time they were statesmen with some honour and pride.
Today they are snivelling reprobates with morals and respect of drug dealers and rabid dogs.
The govt of yesteryear was a much more mature lot, who, at least appeared, to have the interest of the people they represented, at heart.
Not today, they have slowly figured out that they can do whatever they want and get away with it, because Aussies, like some other countries, are too well off and too slack to give a sh!t.
JJA, I suppose I would consider a form of govt that is not chosen by the people, because people are stupid, and are too easily swayed by trinkets and treats.
If the people were more mature, pragmatic and objective in their attitudes, we might have a chance, but this lot, not a chance, never.
So the prognosis is bad, we are heading into a very gloomy future, which will end up with countries like ours being swallowed up by the likes of the Illuminati, with their sick plan of world dominance, which is impossible of course, except for smart arse arrogant countries like Australia.

Jonathan J. Ariel,
Yes, there are two approaches Australia could take to create more jobs: reduce wages to create more low value jobs, or use a combination of fiscal and monetary policy to create high value jobs.

Doing the former would reduce people's standard of living and would also reduce tax revenue; doing the latter would increase people's standard of living and increase tax revenue.

For the past third of a century, Australia's decision to be a high wage country has served us well. So why do you want to revert to third world conditions?

Aidan,

what are you on about?
Low value jobs?
High value jobs?
Your forgetting, right now we have little or no jobs.
Where are you going to get all these "high" value jobs from?
I don't think people are so arrogant or are they?
I believe there are so many people out of work, since the closure of some pretty high labour force industries, that they would rather have any job than get upetty about how much they get paid.
When jobs become abundant once more, then is the time to make foolish wage increase demands.
The economy has to adjust to suite the circumstances of the day.
No work, no pay.
It is precisely your kind of thinking that contributed to the demise of some large Aussie industries.
With our level of income, we could not compete with other countries with lower income levels.
Thank God we have the resource sector to rely on, together with farming for added exports.
Even they come under constant internal threats by the likes of the pathetic greens and animal liberationists.
As for tax revenue, if we have NO jobs how do you think your "tax revenue"will stand up?
No it's better to have a low paying job than no job at all.

ALTRAV,
Do you think it's good to have people doing low productivity work when they're capable of doing high productivity work? I certainly don't!

>Your forgetting, right now we have little or no jobs.
WRONG!
We don't have enough jobs, and I certainly haven't forgotten that. But that's because the government are hell bent on taking more money out of the economy than they put in (aka running a surplus). It would not be too hard to instead set the combination of fiscal and monetary policy to enable enough jobs to be created. Indeed doing so would be almost as easy as cutting the minimum wage, but the result would be a lot better.

If the money's there, the jobs are there. There's no shortage of things to do, either in the public or private sectors, and lower wages only offer a short term advantage. Automation is a much better long term solution, and higher wages encourage this (it's no coincidence that Australia is the world leader in field robotics).

Do you understand now? I'm not suggesting sticking with the status quo. And I'm not suggesting making foolish wage demands either now or when we achieve full employment.

Aidan,

your talking cross purposes.
The govt is the last place to look to for growing the economy and hiring people to produce goods for export.
All your doing is taking money from one pocket and putting it in the other.
We need export jobs.
Value added would be ideal, but for the fact that wages are too high, so no export jobs.
No! export brings in new money, and so everyone benefits.
"If the money's there, the jobs are there".
Rubbish, where do you come up with this stuff.
If your suggesting the govt create jobs just to satisfy your rabid anxiety for work, fine, but if you are seriously promoting that the govt should create local infrastructure jobs, you're nuts.
Have you heard the one about the $100 getting passed around the town to pay for goods and services by the people of that town?
Well it's a little different in the "real"world.
In Australia, if you start off with $100, there's a good chance that after a number of transactions of that same $100, it will be all gone.
But not just gone, the consumer will have had to cough up another $100 to cover the taxes and govt charges associated with the purchase of goods and services.
No Aidan, there is no substitute for export as the ultimate goal of any industry, whether agriculture, engineering, or livestock exports.
Lessen any of those things and you will go backwards or at least into recession.
I do not believe we can afford the naivety of some people such as the greens and the like, because they are clueless about anything other than what they ignorantly believe and naively accepted as fact, just because they believe all the BS, and not because they are in possession of incontrovertible truths.

Aidan..............

I must pick you up on your comment of choosing between low and high productivity work.
Aidan, we're lucky if Aussies want to work at all, so don't even try to elevate the Aussie worker to any level of efficiency or productivity, seen elsewhere in more efficient and disciplined countries.
Japan and Germany come to mind.
We have the most entitled, arrogant, so called, workers, in the world.
If I were in charge, I would not employ them, and I didn't.
I had to go offshore to find people who actually wanted to work and did not complain, like these Aussie morons.
Let me broadcast a sickening fact about this sh!tty country and it's equally shi!tty, ha ha workforce.
I was once verbally abused by an idiot because as he put it, "if I didn't want this damn job done he wouldn't have to work".
Seriously and it is the truth.
Aussies are so far up emselves that they have lost all reason and common sense.
They demand stratospheric hourly rates for third class workmanship.
And don't try to mitigate with one worker in a hundred that scrubs up to the challenge.
No Aidan, first you get these morons off their arses and giving a rats about their jobs, then you pay them what their worth, which at present is about the same as the dole, which pretty much rates their performance in terms of a weekly wage, then come and see me and I'll consider the matter at that time and not before, or especially where we were before the sh!t started hitting the fan, and we have lost so many big companies to other more effecient and cheaper countries.

ALTRAV

You wrote;
No I believe that the thieves we voted in over the years have had an evil and self serving agenda, and completely free hand to do what they wanted and say what we wanted to hear.

My comment:

I am not sure "evil" is the correct adjective. I tend to go with "self serving" or "self interested" behaviour is the prime motivator of most politicians.

You wrote:
A major problem being that govt ministers are just people with no experience at running a country, let alone running a business.
They are in the job, only for what they can get out of it.

My comment:

Spot on, when you all out their woeful lack of experience. I recall (then) Sen Sam Dastayari "grilling" bankers in the lead up to the Royal Commission. He thought much of his skill, but given the lack of insight in his questions, the bankers thought xmas came early as they need not have bothered to prepare the Senator tickling their proverbial tummies.

You wrote;
... because Aussies, like some other countries, are too well off and too slack to give a sh!t.

My comment:

I agree. We are mostly apathetic and accepting of what Canberra tells us. Few of us question.

You wrote;
So the prognosis is bad, we are heading into a very gloomy future...,

My comment:
So you'd prefer a Lee Kwan Yew kind of PM? Someone who we'd vote in to do what needs to be done without the chronic debates, environmental impact statements and an assortment of First World BS that magically has escaped politicians in economic powerhouses like the PRC, The Republic of Korea and Vietnam?

Aidan, you wrote:

For the past third of a century, Australia's decision to be a high wage country has served us well. So why do you want to revert to third world conditions?

I disagree. High wages has not served us well. The high minimum wage (and assorted penalty rates) are the reasons small businesses do not operate 7 days a week. They are forced to pay rent 7 days a week but it is not economic for them to open their doors and engage staff on Sat/Sun given the pay rates. Surely there are unemployed or underemployed folk who'd be happy to work on the w/ends at regular rates of pay? That would allow many businesses to open 7 days and employ those who would otherwise be unemployed.

Also, our high wages is why we're a manufacturing pygmy when compared to others. We are not globally competitive in much other than what we mine or drill for.
Our raw material wealth is what has stifled our ability to becoming a world leader in any manufactured product. When we do make things, it's often subsidised by the taxpayer in order to keep paying some folk wages a free market would be unable to pay.

Think of the auto industry where many were well paid. Of course they were, because taxes on foreign made cars was used to prop up an industry making cars the Australian consumer did not believe in.

JJA,

here's a fact/truth, I'm sure you will find both humorous and disgusting.
Some years ago it was discovered or announced, that the govt paid GMH approx three hundred million dollars in grants/subsidies.
That same year GMH declared a profit of, you guessed it, three hundred million dollars.
Because one of my life interests and career was in the automotive industry, you can imagine my anger, and still today, at the cost and restrictions on imports, both new and second hand.
We have been taken advantage of for as long as I can remember, and it's no wonder I have this utter disdain for this country and its people.
Pathetic lot, arrogant, uninformed, mis-informed, naive, mindless neanderthals.
And these are the people who are entrusted with the responsibility of choosing who will run this country and ultimately, our lives.
I can't help but wonder, at times, how much better off and more disciplined these morons would be had we lost the war.
I have experienced countries like Japan and Germany, and felt them to be outstanding examples of success stories, especially when you consider Germany has been financing half of Europe.
Can you imagine an Aussie worker having to wait for the "boss" to leave before he can knock off, as is the case in Japan?
As for penalty rates, and the idea of working 7 days a week, these people would scoff at the idea.
They are so mentally deficient as to argue the value of spending time with the family over work, when in fact they would be down the pub with their mates or at the footy or some other pointless, mindless, useless endeavor, which ultimately involves spending/wasting money.
With their stupid mantra of, "I work to live, and not I live to work".
It's a shame they don't live by the latter, they would all be so much better off in retirement.
But no it's so much better to carry on like ferrel pigs, treat work like a disease and harbour the responsibility of a three year old spoilt brat.