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The Forum > Article Comments > Albanese: take a stand on tax > Comments

Albanese: take a stand on tax : Comments

By Tristan Ewins, published 21/6/2019

Abbott blocked good policy; It wasn't without reason that he earned the nickname 'Dr No'. Now Labor has a right to block sweeping tax cuts that will indirectly hurt millions of its constituents.

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Amen.
Posted by Cyclone, Friday, 21 June 2019 10:08:59 AM
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Well of course! Albo and tax cuts is just the same as Abbo and the carbon tax.

"The Conservatives claim a mandate". Politicians can claim a mandate to break wind. Point is, mandates have no legal status in our system, otherwise we could sue politicians for all the promises they break.

The 'promise' of tax cuts was a vote buying exercise which might get through the senate or it might not. I don't give a damn. The government should be saving money, not giving it away; and the savings should be going into defence, with China in mind.

A few self-help books for the Prime Minister on how to stand up to China would be a good idea, too
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 21 June 2019 10:21:44 AM
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Someone that still is able to think rationally needs to promote real tax reform, that only grows with the economy, not ubiquitous bracket creep! Real reform would!

#1/ Raise the threshold generously so that those currently EXISTING below the poverty line do not pay income tax!

#2/ Set the tax a stand-alone, unavoidable flat tax of 15% in the sure and certain knowledge that this sum is already 2% more in real terms than the top tax paid in actual dollars, to treasury, the year ending 2017 by any corporation!?

With some paying as little as 4% and around a reported 40% not paying any company tax at all?

To those who say this would be something like looking after the big end of town! Need to go back to school and do some real maths, if only to understand that raising the ACTUAL TAX PAID burden by a minimum of 2% does not look like giving the big end of town a tax break in real terms but rather, imposes a larger 2% minimum burden on them!

Those whose creative accounting has got it as low as 4%, will find that they are burdened with another unavoidable 11%!

Finally, those who through various strategies and assisted by vagaries in the global economy pay none to anyone? Will find themselves unable to escape our treasury model and have to also cough up their fair share, or the full 15%!

The upside is, there would not be or need to be the usual annual reconciliation nor the tax compliance cost this also imposes. Thereby allowing hat former 7% tax compliance burden to be returned to the bottom line, meaning in adjusted terms the real tax burden and associated compliance cost would be reduced in real terms to 8%.

Moreover, in PAYE, the lowest current rate is 19%? Meaning even those currently paying any PAYE tax would see a real lower rate of not less than 4% and as this reform was rolled out? And far more equitable, bracket creep free, treatment!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Friday, 21 June 2019 11:52:26 AM
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>It will also cost the Budget $160 billion over 10 years.This when we're likely heading for a recession
If we're still heading for a recession at the time those tax cuts are implemented, the resultant deficit should stimulate the economy enough to keep us out of it. But if the economy's booming, those tax cuts will be too inflationary and they should be rejected.

Labor is right to oppose those tax cuts so far in advance, as we can not tell what the economic situation will be.
Posted by Aidan, Friday, 21 June 2019 11:54:28 AM
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The author has a very structured view of "class". I don't aspire to reach a higher class, I just aspire to something better (if not for myself, then my children). Fundamentally, I don't aspire for my country to have a "flat outcome" system, and I believe the last election shows that to be a majority view.

Why not use the same comparative arguments to lower company tax?
http://comparativetaxation.treasury.gov.au/content/report/html/05_Chapter_3.asp

"Australia has a relatively high company tax burden. It is the third highest at 5.3 per cent of GDP, compared with the OECD-30 unweighted average of 3.3 per cent...."
Posted by Luciferase, Friday, 21 June 2019 12:10:42 PM
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Tax avoidance still remains a crime and where totally random audits expose same, the real penalties should include some real jail time for both offending CEO's, tax practice lawyers/accountants and all their supervising directors!

Plus a retrospective doubling-trebling-quadrupling of their tax liability including seizure/forfeiture of any and all spouse/familial transferred property and assets!

Crime cannot should not be allowed to pay! And were this so, much of the tax avoidance and parasitical practice would cease!

Former parasitic tax practice lawyer and accountants could find new far more productive profitable roles, heading up new employee owned and operated co-ops! Given such entities could enjoy a complete tax holiday/interest-free government loans along with all shareholding staff for 3-5 years!?

These proposed reforms as a package would quite massively turbocharge and grow the economy and the tax revenue simultaneously! And in many instances, in the new co-ops, make one dollar do the work of seven and 2.50 returned for every 1.00 invested!?

Those who for various perceived self-interest or servitude to powerful vested interest, are opposed, need to both explain themselves and their BS reasons! And why their current maniacal, preferred tax and economic management paradigm, sees us going ever backwards with every twist and turn?

Almost as if the inmates have taken over and are running the asylum?
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Friday, 21 June 2019 12:18:05 PM
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Company Tax has fallen by more than 20 percentage points over the past 35 years.

Furthermore, we have dividend imputation ; which most of those other countries don't have.

Probably we could get away with somewhat higher corporate taxation.

The real problem is cracking down on tax evasion seriously.
Posted by Tristan Ewins, Friday, 21 June 2019 1:46:57 PM
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It's fine to 'aspire' to a promotion ; a new career ; a successful small business. But Labor doesn't want "a flat outcome" ; which is usually called 'equality of outcome'. What any decent social democratic party wants is *just* outcomes ; and with enough redistribution that there is no class of working poor ; and pensioners can live with comfort and dignity. Even with substantially increased tax there will still be significant inequality - although ameliorated. Universal socialised medicine assists everyone. And keep in mind the OECD average rates of tax is about 7 percentage points higher than in Australia. Or approximately $119 billion. Negative Arguments against 'equality of outcome' are false. Not even the old social democratic Marxists believed absolute and literal equality of incomes was achievable or desirable. Though they did want to get rid of exploitation and the class system. (which again is different from 'absolute equality of outcome') They saw class as being mainly about *relations* between employers and workers ; as opposed to the amount of income. Though that could be important in other contexts ; as I explain in the article.
Posted by Tristan Ewins, Friday, 21 June 2019 1:56:13 PM
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Don't worry, things will be a lot different when China takes over the country.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Friday, 21 June 2019 3:08:05 PM
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'Abbott blocked good policy '

Are lefties so unhinged they are still possessed with abbottphobia. I thought they had moved on to Trumpphobia. Pity Abbott was not able to block the legislation that led to 1200 plus drownings. Seems like a good leftie Tristan looks at things through bitter glasses.
Posted by runner, Friday, 21 June 2019 3:29:06 PM
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Those on the higher end of the income bracket are so able to structure their finances so as to minimise their own personal tax burden to 15%!

Others like Clive Palmer can and do move their money and income to countries like Singapore where they may only pay 11% on income earned here!?

It's all well and good to talk about subsidised medicine and universal health care etc. Which does not end poverty, but rather, engrains it!

How different it would be if these social reforms were limited only to those unable to earn income, the old, the feeble, the genuinely disabled and deserted, abandoned single mums! And trotted out to give the appearance of actually giving a rats? Why aged care and NDIS has more profiteering providers than needy recipients?

And trotted out to give the appearance of caring? An or, to avoid doing anything real about real tax reform or real social justice?

If we would do both!? A real starting point would just have to be cooperative capitalism comrade! And extremely safe, carbon-free nuclear waste burning MSR nuclear energy, with estimated costs, lower than 1 cent PKWH! And doable inside 7 years! If there's political will!

The last on its own would quite massively reduce the cost of living and doing business here and increase manufacture/business migration along with a virtual tidal wave of fully self-funded cashed up, retirees! Even more so with the proposed single stand-alone tax reform!

Complex rationalists often welded to an idiotic ideology, Tristan? Cannot see the forest for the trees nor that volume always outperforms margins! Be it a business model or genuine tax reform!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Friday, 21 June 2019 3:40:09 PM
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How do you justify saying socialised medicine 'ingrains poverty' ; when you compare Australia with the US ; whose under-performing health sector is expensive and bloated ; and getting ill can send you bust?
Posted by Tristan Ewins, Friday, 21 June 2019 5:11:18 PM
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Yes, runner, the Left is unhinged.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 21 June 2019 6:50:32 PM
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Dear Alan B,

You write;

"It's all well and good to talk about subsidised medicine and universal health care etc. Which does not end poverty, but rather, engrains it!"

Bunkum!

I invite you to go read some Joe Bageant to see how poverty is entrenched by the US medical system where the highest reason for bankruptcies is because of medical bills.

That any Australian could step forward and advocate we take the US path astounds me.

If you have any data to support your contention I would love to see it.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Friday, 21 June 2019 6:55:53 PM
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Data? How about our own postcode poverty traps where virtually all the recipients on virtually free medical care and a range of benefits.

Like those of single mums/deserted abandoned wives, on work start welfare.

As someone PARTLY raised by a single mum. I have some insights the self-satisfied better off can never ever comprehend! How difficult it really is, when you are bumped from pillar to post/dozens of different schools along the way.

I understand the objections from the far right, to vastly superior cooperative capitalism! Because it harms their preferred master-servant management model/control freak outcomes, made manifest by disgraced trickle-down economics/crumbs from the master's table, outcomes.

Or those of union advocates, who see the end of unionism as the intended/sanity driven OUTCOME. Plus the ultra expensive tax churn in insufficient quantities to actually lift those in, postcode poverty traps, out of them, as an actual bona fide OUTCOME!

Yes, the tax rate has come down in recent years, but on paper only. The actual reality? Not very much has changed save the revenue stream is now sourced far more from those with the least! The nation's alleged wealth is now predicated of record domestic/foreign debt.

Moved to that point, from a starting position, of being the third wealthiest nation on the planet/a creditor one at that.

If Australia inc. was a corporate entity with a record like that, the entire directorships/CEO's that have presided over this, ideological driven OUTCOME! Would all be booted, with no beg pardons.

Yes, credit where credit is due. We are a more socially advanced and progressive nation than the USA! Halleluja!

Do you think that entitles us to praise!? Given where we came from, the starting point and just how much better we could and can do if we gave ourselves permission!? Instead of trying to sell everything not nailed down!

Equality/true equitability would be an "outcome" and far superior to the political power "outcomes" that currently drive imbecilic policy SCIENCE/PRAGMATISM FREE power junkie paradigms today!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Saturday, 22 June 2019 11:42:28 AM
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Steele. Not advocating anything like the American system! And any fair and impartial reading of what I have actually advocated would confirm, just that!

That said, we have a tidal wave of baby boomers hitting or about to hit retirement, And a time when tax revenue shrinks and from an even smaller cohort of income taxpayer cohort, just as the need for welfare support grows exponentially!

So, we used to means test our taxpayer-funded social welfare and should do so again! And were we to include health and education as we once did when we were both debt free and the third wealthiest nation on the planet, could conceivably do so once again!

And here I include all health and all education even tertiary education. Plus massive regional autonomy and the only tier of government we dn't actually o ever need, removed!

Our welfare could be far more generous if directed at the needy and not the greedy or those who think the privilege of living in a free and democratic society as taxpayers?

Confers a free ride and taxpayer-funded (bread taken from the mouths of babies) entitlement!

Moreover, redirected as proposed would massively improve discretionary spending as would the vastly cheaper power prices proposed! [And I get that's not what the coal-fired lobby want!]

Plus, give the domestic economy a turbocharge boost as would a manifestly more rational and unchurned, vastly less expensive, tax system!

Cooperative capitalism alone has the potential to improve the outcomes for virtually all Aussies, save the ner-do-well drones and bludgers/leaners.

[Cooperative capitalism is now, virtually non-existent in the USA as is social medicine/education! But more feel-good charity and folk with charity in their hearts!]

Some of Bludgers/Leaners are the rogue employers and past employers among us!

There's not very much to like or emulate in modern-day USA. And not who we should ape!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Saturday, 22 June 2019 1:09:46 PM
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I thought after the Venezuala disaster socialist would crawl in a hole. Instead they continue to push their failed Marxist dogmas. Are the abc still inviting guests from Venezuala as a model of how things could be with free health cover for all? Thought not.
Posted by runner, Saturday, 22 June 2019 1:53:57 PM
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undermining Medicare's universality will undermine its support ; and quality would fall over time.

Venezuela isn't in a bad way because of 'socialism' ; but because foreign intervention is "making the economy scream" ; like in Chile under Allende. Corruption played its part ; but it's wrong to be wilfully ignorant of the place of intervention and destabilisation.
Posted by Tristan Ewins, Saturday, 22 June 2019 2:19:56 PM
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Wasting your time and your pearls here Tristan.

Those that don't like the intellectual challenge, of for them, an unwinnable debate, or a few new novel ideas, like runner, mindlessly inform the world they know naught about any of those political systems or advocates.

But label all they disagree with on self-evident idealogical grounds, as lefties, leaners, Marxist, socialist or communist. And in so doing, inform the world, they are empty idealogical vessels, intellectually unable to mount a credible argument for their political, broken record rhetoric.

Tax avoidance and actual rates as received by treasury remain largely unchanged. I remember a proud boost from Alan Bond and before we'd won America's cup from the yanks, that he'd gotten his company's tax bill as paid in actual dollars, to just 13 cents in the dollar.

We have a demonstrably unfair, two-tiered tax system that massively favours high-income earners and the current government wants to tilt it further in their and most politicians favour!

Hard to critique a policy, without placing a countervailing policy paradigm on the table. Which is what I have done and in the interest of genuine welfare improvements and substantial economic improvement for the entire nation!

Just by actually adjusting the burden so our tax avoiding international guests finally cannot escape as they do now and I believe somewhere north of 60 billion per!

Some might argue, that we cannot do much better economically or in terms of real reform and social justice. I just don't happen to be one of them just very tired of talking to intellectually arrogant folk with tin ears and foregone conclusions on everything!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Saturday, 22 June 2019 4:03:31 PM
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Tristan,
Venezuela isn't in a bad way because of foreign intervention but because the socialists who are in power are terrible economic managers.

That isn't because of socialism; their predecessors were also quite bad economic managers. Nor is it because of their rampant cronyism, which should make them worth opposing no matter what you think of socialism.

The main source of the problem is their managed exchange rate. Even when the price of oil (their main export) halved, they kept the Bolivar pegged to the US dollar, preventing them from exporting their way out of trouble. But they didn't have the resources to keep its actual value at its official value, so its actual value has collapsed.
Posted by Aidan, Saturday, 22 June 2019 5:57:52 PM
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you're aware there are very harsh sanctions, right?
Posted by Tristan Ewins, Sunday, 23 June 2019 10:47:44 AM
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Cooperative capitalism as Co-ops were the only, free market, private enterprise business model that mostly survived the great depression largely intact!

Extreme exploitive capitalism needs to engage in tax avoidance/other multitudinous malfeasance to grow the profit curve!

The economic miracle that was war-torn post-war Japan, created its economic miracle/recovery to become the second largest economy for a time, was by the planned implementation of cooperative capitalism, social unity/social credit!?

Could we ever unite well enough via inescapable self-interest? To do that here?

Some years ago now, a reported Brazilian entrepreneurial industrialist was facing ruination due to the Macivallian mechanisation of his wife, her lover/some bankers, as they sort to take over the enterprise he'd built.

He beat them/their banking friends by gifting a controlling share to his most loyal/experienced employees, creating in the process a virtual employee-owned co-op. Then used an ATM to entrench/legalise the changes?

The end result? Went from the brink of bankruptcy to become one of the most successful manufacturing enterprises in Brazil. With the former head honcho now touring the world following the golf tournaments of champions, his passion. The Co-op pays far higher wages created a creche and a housing co-op for the employees.

Former owner, worth more now as a junior partner, with far greater wealth than anything he had when it was a traditional, top-down commercial enterprise.

As I look around the world I see most of the so-called economic miracles and Tiger economies used variants of cooperative capitalism for their often astonishing turn-a-rounds.

Albeit, often opposed by entrenched Communists and extreme Capitalists alike, because it was for them and their vastly less egalitarian business models, a virtual death knell. Something we need to consider here while we have a country and an economy that is still ours!

Socialism may well be more egalitarian but imposes the deadbeats and the drones, higher taxes and costs on the more productive members of the community. I have an, even swap, emigration plan for all the latter, where they can reside with their parasitic kind!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Sunday, 23 June 2019 11:40:20 AM
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Tristan,
I'm aware that the Venezuelan government claim them to be very harsh, but looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_sanctions_during_the_Venezuelan_crisis those claims seem quite dubious. Most of those sanctions (all of them until quite recently) are targeted not at the country, but at certain people associated with the Maduro government.

The more recent sanctions imposed by the Trump administration would be very harsh if they were part of a concerted international effort. But as trade with countries other than the USA is unaffected, they're easily evaded thus their effect is very limited.

Sanctions make a convenient scapegoat for Maduro, but it's not credible to claim they're the cause of the problem. Venezuela's hyperinflation predates them!
Posted by Aidan, Sunday, 23 June 2019 11:22:28 PM
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Correction: I should've written "easily avoided" rather than "easily evaded".
I'm not saying such deals are continuing illegally; I'm saying they don't need to.
Posted by Aidan, Sunday, 23 June 2019 11:25:45 PM
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ScuMo's tax package can be broken down into three parts:

1. ScuMo bought city votes at the last election for $1000 a piece to be paid in the 2018-19 tax return.

2. Take vast amounts of money from Australia's lower classes and give it to the higher classes who are the mates of Liberal Party and National Party politicians.

3. A political ploy to (a) make Labor look bad in the present to those voters who are expecting to get their $1000 reward if it tries to block the package and (b) make the L-NP coalition look good to higher class voters at future elections.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Monday, 24 June 2019 10:16:28 AM
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I just saw Albanese on TV presenting Labor's stance on ScuMo's tax package and it looks like Labor has finally woken up to the fact that ScuMo's programs are all about catching Labor off guard with a view to achieving the only thing ScuMo and his political adherents are ever really worried about - getting re-elected to the advantage of the rich!

Albanese's proposal for a deal on the tax package to get items 1 and 2 through the system to the advantage of working class Australia whilst delaying item 3, which will hand billions of government revenue to wealthy Australians with no economic advantage to the nation, until after the next election is a solid counter punch to ScuMo's ruse to catch Labor off guard. This will be an interesting tug-o-war between those representing the have-nots of the world and those representing the haves of the world. My advice to Albanese is dig your heals in and hold fast to your ideals and don't give way because ScuMo is the sort of person one cannot trust.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Monday, 24 June 2019 2:27:34 PM
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