(Continued)

When I see people read the bible in a literal way, they read it in the context it was in. Historical parts are literal in context in that they happened. The psalms, proverbs, parables, and visions, are in context that give a message but aren't nessassirly an event to compare history from. Literal reading from that point is to read those sections as they are written, but still count them as things to learn from even to count as an authority on spiritual matters.

When I see a person try to read the bible with a symbolic kind of interptation, they still can hold on to literal interptations that these teachings taught what they really said, and the events really did occure. But a symbolic interpretation can also try to read into it in other ways. Looking at figures in the bible to be foreshadowing of Jesus, or shadows of events to come kind of thing. Or even trying to look at the meaning and symbolism in the rituals in the sacrifices and the celebrations written about in the books of law of the Old Testiment.

However having a literal view first is a solid foundation, so you don't stray away from what the bible says, and make up another story of your own. What happened really did happen, what was taught was really taught. If there's any ounce of faith in God being able to do all things, then at the very least I would think He can protect His written and recorded words that are filled in the bible. It's trustworthy on the principle that God is trustworthy.

//You want my argument to sound ridiculous so you exaggerate your antagonism to Christianity instead of dealing with the topic. You engaged in fallacious reasoning.//

Spencer, if I had a dollar for every fallacy you've committed...

Anyway, it's not 'your argument'. The Bible verse you quoted was John of Patmos' 'argument' - credit where credit is due. I was just putting in context with some of John's other 'arguments'.

Personally, I wouldn't call the Revelation any more ridiculous than 'The Divine Comedy'. But then, I don't think the Revelation should be taken literally.

Sells,

<< A literalist reading is an unnecessary block to modern belief and one of the main reasons that so many congregations are in decline.>>

You blame evangelicals and ‘literalist reading’ of the text for dwindling numbers. Is that factual?

When postmodern liberal, John Shelby Spong, was bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Newark NJ, USA, his theology was, 'Theism is dead, I joyfully proclaim, but God is real' (Spong 2001:77).

He had been bishop from 1976-2000 and ‘presided over one of the most rapid witherings of any diocese in the Episcopal Church [USA]. The most charitable assessment shows that Newark’s parish membership rolls have evaporated by more than 42 percent. Less charitable accounts put the rate at over 50 percent’ (Marty Lasley, 1999).

The Gospel and postmodern liberalism make a terrible marriage.

Mike Ratliff wrote that 'Liberal Theology is Humanism dressed up in Christian clothes. Secular Humanism is not Christianity', http://www.theaquilareport.com/what-is-the-root-of-liberal-theology/

Is the problem with those who interpret the Bible literally or with liberals who impose their metaphorical beliefs on the text.

With church growth in Australia, ‘Members of the Pentecostal church increased from nearly 220,000 in 2006 and 238,000 in 2011 to 260,500 … according to the 2016 census results released by the Australian Bureau of Statistics…. It has grown particularly among young people" (see: http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/jun/27/christianity-on-the-wane-in-australia-but-pentecostal-church-bucks-trend).

In 'A downward slope for UCA (Uniting Church in Australia)', retired UCA minister, Dr Bernard Thorogood, wrote: 'As we were liberal in our attitude towards confirmation and membership, so we were liberal in theology. I question whether it is possible to build a strong institution with such a basis', http://www.insights.uca.org.au/features/your-say/a-downward-slope-for-uca

A 2016 survey in Ontario, Canada of “mainline” denominations found 'theological conservatism of both attendees and clergy emerged as important factors in predicting church growth'. That’s one survey: http://theway21stcentury.wordpress.com/2017/02/23/do-conservative-churches-grow-more-than-liberal-ones/

I know of conservative churches that once thrived but are now down to 30-50 people. Being conservative or evangelical does not produce growth unless churches combine a deep love for Jesus with a practical love for people.

Sells, liberal theology like yours is almost a certain way to kill a denomination.

OzPen
How dare you call me a liberal, I am exactly the reverse. My most influential theologian is Karl Barth who has been described as post-liberal and who also thinks that the empty tomb is a legend. Barth was the end of liberalism. Please read outside your evangelical bubble.
As far as the "success" of evangelical churches is concerned they appeal to the theologically uneducated, of which there a more and more. Numbers do not indicate orthodoxy, remember Trump was made president on the shoulders of white evangelical Christians.

The bones of Jesus? All I get from you all is a lot of handwaving. It is regrettable that NT Wright made that call about resuscitation, just goes to show he may be a good biblical scholar but he does not sit among the theologians.

'Runner,
I still do not have and answer to my question about the location of the bones of Jesus. It is all very well for you to read the resurrection stories as if they convey what really happened but, you must admit, it puts you in rather a difficult place.'

no Sells its your belief in corrupt liberal theologians that place you in a 'difficult' place.

Certainly some of the disciples were left in no doubt as to where Jesus bones were after the resurrection.

'Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."' Luke 24:39

Not sure if it could be much clearer

Runner,
Read the rest of the story set in the closed room. Thomas did not in fact reach in to feel the wounds but was brought to faith when Jesus addressed him.

Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have come to believe.”

We are the blessed who believe and have not seen.

Please do not call me a liberal.