The Forum > Article Comments > Hydrogen power: hype or hope? > Comments
Hydrogen power: hype or hope? : Comments
By Geoff Carmody, published 7/11/2018The report accepts costs need to be reduced and that will require a massive effort. It says more R&D, and, importantly, getting the market activated to generate experience with production processes.
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Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 7 November 2018 6:22:11 PM
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Aidan
Curses on your rats , greens and leftie hydrogen. "Most of Indonesia’s volcanoes have spiritual significance to some group of people. Nearly every one has a myth and supernatural being associated with it. Many are honored with festivals and offerings by local people. Being Muslim has not stopped the Javanese from practicing volcano worship. Sultans in Yogyakarta are officially known as "Susunan," the "Volcano" or 'Life-Giving Mountain." Every year the Sultan of Yogyakarta throws an offering of his hair and fingernail clippings in Merapi volcano. Andrew Marshall of Associated Press wrote: “Volcanoes stand at the heart of a complicated set of mystical beliefs that grip millions of Indonesians and influence events in unexpected ways. Their peaks attract holy men and pilgrims. Their eruptions augur political change and social upheaval. You might say that in Indonesia, volcanoes are a cultural cauldron in which mysticism, modern life, Islam, and other religions mix—or don't. Indonesia, an assemblage of races, religions, and tongues, is riveted together by volcanoes. Reverence for them is virtually a national trait. [Source: Andrew Marshall, Associated Press, January 2008]" Volcano steam-cooking is the future for tourism , Goat on the Lava is a delicacy eaten beneath bright lanterns with the mystical sound of sea water exploding in the magma vent below. Posted by nicknamenick, Wednesday, 7 November 2018 6:37:08 PM
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So as the article states:
"The [Hydrogen for Australia's Future] HAF strategy would require huge amounts of Australian (liquid?) water for production. Moreover, the water must be 'high purity'. Isn't pure water very costly to electrolyse? That means lots of water is needed (maybe from desalinated seawater), purification, and more costs." So this requirement for copious amounts of high purity water, make the dry continent of Australia just about the LAST PLACE to produce Hydrogen for export. Norway, Canada or Russia are way ahead in the pure water availability stakes - hence likely much cheaper exporters. But wait the article seems to imply "For affordable, reliable, low-emissions energy, how about nuclear power in Australia? Australia could construct reactors to desalinate water and a second run through? cause electrolysis in water to produce Hydrogen to export to Japan. But Wait. How bout restarting the idle reactors of Japan for Japan to get to the energy goodies right off? Or do the Japanese know something about catastrophic downsides of reactors that were good models at the time of development...? __________________________________________ BTW French nuclear electricity is a stand out success precisely Because France is building increasingly large http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France#1650_MWe_class_(EPR_design) conventional PWR reactors. Not the small modular reactors that OLO chatteratti continually cogitate over. Posted by plantagenet, Wednesday, 7 November 2018 9:14:43 PM
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As a fuel, hydrogen has shortcomings. Efficiency and rate of fuel synthesis (e.g. ammonia) from hydrogen easily produced from renewables or nuclear is the subject of research that may, or may not, bear sufficient fruit. http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/07/ammonia-renewable-fuel-made-sun-air-and-water-could-power-globe-without-carbon
Solid state hydrogen storage too has possibilities and challenges. http://www.ergenics.com/hs.html Posted by Luciferase, Thursday, 8 November 2018 12:14:31 AM
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In the UK it is not permitted to park hydrogen fueled vehicles in
underground car parks. Not sure of the regulations here but I imagine the fire brigade would not be happy. BTW I have been trying to find a defination of how renewable energy is costed. Wind is said to be cheaper than coal. That seems reasonable if you count its full rated output. However I believe the effective out over a year is around 35% of rated output. Then the cost would have to be multiplied by 2.8 times ? If you had to install two more wind machines to get to 100% would it still be cheaper than coal ? Of course the additional machines would have to be installed elsewhere or they would all stop at the same time. Then they have to be connected via the grid. Are they still cheaper ? Posted by Bazz, Saturday, 10 November 2018 3:04:39 PM
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Bazz, It would be more logical to ban vehicles powered by liquified hydrocarbons. Any escaped fuel in the gaseous form would drain to the lowest part of the park, whereas the light hydrogen would move upwards and be dispersed into the atmosphere quite quickly.
David Posted by VK3AUU, Saturday, 10 November 2018 3:20:39 PM
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The only people claiming any future for a hydrogen fuel cell are ratbag greenies, & academics who get paid to fool around for years doing nothing really useful.