If that was such a big deal, Aidan, people would buy subsidised batteries to arbitrage the cost of off-peak and peak coal power. Removing subsidies makes it even less attractive.

100% renewables on grid, bar hydro, doesn't stack up by any remotely sensible analysis, with scalable, viable storage being the problem. But nothing shakes the belief of zealots who continue to dupe the public in believing the storage issue is already licked.

We'll end up with gas replacing coal should the enthusiasts win the politics, and that's where it will all end.

As Carmody says, we have three potential aims as regards electricity supply- that it be cheap, reliable and have low emissions.

Unfortunately, we can only have, at most two of those three.

Cheap and reliable - ie Australia last decade.
Cheap and green - but that can't be reliable.
Reliable and green - by throwing enormous sums are batteries and pumped hydro etc ie not even close to cheap.

So we have to decide which of the three we'll forego. But in today's Australia, no government (or opposition) is in the business of telling people they can't have everything they want.

So the aim is simply to muddy the water sufficiently to get to the next election. Power to expensive? Well fear not, we're gunna put in x numbers of batteries and pump some water uphill and then it'll be cheaper. And that'll work until the next election whereupon another placebo solution will be rolled out.

Meanwhile prices will rise, the climate will be utterly unaffected and jobs will be shed. Truly we have the worst ruling class in out history.

As long as thorium is the energy source that dare not speak its name! Thorium will remain the most promising dispatchable, base-load power we never ever allowed. And as long as R+D into thorium remains officially forbidden! It will never ever be considered. XXX We're around seven short years away from decommissioning some of our ageing coal-fired power stations and need to replace them with a carbon-free alternative! XXX Seven years enough time to iron out the few bugs they found when this fifty-year-old technology was successfully field trialled without accident or incident. XXX How many more Emmas of Australian story, have to die with curable cancer? Curable with Miracle cancer cure, Bismuth 213! Before we, rather than the fossil fuel barons and their tame pollies get the hell out of the way and just change the rules and regulations. (theirs) That effectively forbid R+D into thorium, the most energy dense material on the planet! What will it take for the naysayers (those that can't see aanything but coal or some renewables) to take a good long an unbiased impartial view at the discoverable facts that leave no other option as RELIABLE, AFFORDABLE CLEAN SAFE, CARBON-FREE DISPATCHABLE BASELOAD POWER And regardless of any prevailing weather or climate conditions! XXX Alan B

As always, Aidan comes to the party with nothing to contribute. If these magical batteries have contributed their few minutes of extra energy and now need recharging because there is no wind and no sun, the option for selecting a "cheap" recharging period doesn't exist. Unless, of course, Aidan thinks people should go without lighting, aircon, TV and internet, cooking and hot water for a few days. Hang on, that's what he IS thinking, isn't it?

Luciferase,
"If that was such a big deal, Aidan, people would buy subsidised batteries to arbitrage the cost of off-peak and peak coal power"
That argument relies on the false assumption that consumers have access to the wholesale electricity market.

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calwest,
"As always, Aidan comes to the party with nothing to contribute."
So you regard identifying a fundamental flaw in the analysis as contributing nothing?
Struth, no wonder your own arguments are so vacuous!

" If these magical batteries..."
Magical? I certainly don't regard it that way, but I suppose you could.
See http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff300/fv00255.htm

"have contributed their few minutes of extra energy and now need recharging because there is no wind and no sun, the option for selecting a "cheap" recharging period doesn't exist."
Days with no wind and no sun are pretty rare. as high pressure conditions are usually sunny and low pressure conditions usually windy. Obviously there are some days when a cheap recharging period doesn't exist, and those should be accounted for. But they certainly shouldn't be treated as the norm.

You don't seem to have any trouble imagining idiotic scenarios to misattribute to me, so it's a shame you're so utterly lacking in imagination when it comes to solutions!

Aidan, say it to loudly the people, there is no scalable, viable storage. Tell them that you really hope there will be one great day but it's not here yet and you are living in hope that there will be, one day.

Let's say the hypothetical "Transition" is complete. There is sufficient generation and storage by individual households, businesses and public and private providers for everyone's needs. It'll be a market, like any other, to supply the needs of those without storage. There is no coal-power in this scenario, and there is no reason therefore to input data concerning coal-power pricing into any scenario leading up to the attainment of this hypothetical state.

Garbage in, garbage out.