AJ, sexuality is a nice term, and if we ignore the other aspects of sex and lust, we might be swayed into thinking the term is all there is needed to know, and covers our freedom to choose what we want while at the same time being locked into a sexual path. (Not your bidy your choice any more, any questionable attitude of our gender or sex as well as our sexual desires are something we are born with.).

These are the topics of sexuality as I understand them. Though people debate these for their merits, I want you to know there is more to sexual lusts and attractions then just the scopes of sexuality. Young relationships in puberty as well as older relationships suffer when crossing sexual territory without a foundation of commitment. The laws for waiting till marriage would help so much confusion, anger, and frustration that most people go down because in relationships sex is now almost expected. If not right away, then eventually, but before anyone is serious enough to say "will you marry me?"

There is more harm not waiting then there is to wait. But social preasure has it reversed so it's also a burden to wait. A burden that is greater then it would be if it was just our sexual desires alone. There should be commitment held alongside sex or sex becomes a tease and a blight on society. "Get an abortion or you'll ruin your life." Porn and sexual addictions. Adultry and splitting up families because of people "falling in love" while still married to another. Do these things that aren't even criminal sound like the things of morality?

Don't get lost inmovie magic of romantic love stories. It's simple. Sex outside of marriage is a bad idea. Being in a bad relationship is no reason to seek out a new sexual partner. First leave the one bad relationship before getting "in love" with another. Any other outlook on it is selfish and self-deceptive.

As for homosexuality. I've already explained my views on that in this topic already. No need to repeat myself. I'll stand by what was already said. But regardless still trust in God's standards.

Last thought last thought is sexuality and the issue of hell. I'm sorry to inform you but having a loose temper is just as bad a having loose legs. The problem isn't the standard being wrong, it's that we as a people aren't good enough to keep it. So we do need God, and we need eachother to strengthen eachother up. Correct or encourage. Share in our joys and sorrows. And be kind to eachother's failing because we have our own failings too. In that way just like one piece of iron sharpens another. One person can to the same for another. God is still greater though and our needs for Him are in our lives.

Not_Now.Soon,

They can also inspire a lot of needless feelings of guilt when one gives in to one's natural desires (and I speak from experience there).

<<The laws for waiting till marriage would help so much confusion, anger, and frustration that most people go down because in relationships sex is now almost expected.>>

There’s also the issue of people not knowing if they’re sexually compatible until they’re married, and then living with serious problems which can sometimes lead to the eventual collapse of the marriage. Then there’s the more extreme cases like the one I linked you to.

<<There is more harm not waiting then there is to wait.>>

That’s highly debatable. I would go as far as to say ‘preposterous’ in today’s world for anyone who exercises some very basic precautionary measures. A blanket rule is clearly unrealistic and irrational; the devastating effects of an abstinence-only approach in some of the US Bible-belt states - with their higher rates of teen pregnancy, abortion, and pornography viewing - suggests how ineffective and possibly damaging it is, too.

<<As for homosexuality. I've already explained my views on that in this topic already. No need to repeat myself.>>

Okay, going by what you’ve said then, this is by far one of the most unrealistic, irrational, and immoral standards of the Bible. I don’t think you said anything to suggest otherwise.

<<The problem isn't the standard being wrong, it's that we as a people aren't good enough to keep it.>>

Then the standards are at the very least unrealistic, and God would ultimately bear the responsibility for any failings on our behalf.

Why would a god create people that he knew would never be able to keep the rules he was going to set?

<<So we do need God …>>

Of course. The rules' simplicity, and the inadequate blanket approach which they take to some rather complex issues, is what ensures that we will always need the god that supposedly set them.

AJ Phillips,

<<They can also inspire a lot of needless feelings of guilt when one gives in to one's natural desires (and I speak from experience there).>>

This is the most practical kind of argument in my opinion. We can talk about our experiences and it will be better then holding our own standards of right and wrong.

I've felt that kind of guilt too. It's not a plesent feeling. But there are worse alternatives. Have you been in a relationship where sex was something the other person tried to manipulate you with? With that person I should have ended the relationship long before it broke, being the first sexual relationship the feeling that I loved her and had sex with her was too intermixed and became a gue to an unhealthy relationship. A worse alternative then guilt in my opinion.

I've also experienced the feeling of extreem betrayal with a girl I loved and though loved me back. Had I had the expectation to wait till marriage in that relationship, the amount of myself and my efforts might not have stung so fiercely, when she decided our relationship wasn't worth it. That experience taught me that you need to make sure the other person is willing to try for you and put effort into the relationship as well. Sex in the relationship added insult to the broken aftermath.

In response to the point that there is more harm in not waiting then there is in waiting, AJ Phillips, you said:

<<That’s highly debatable. I would go as far as to say ‘preposterous’ in today’s world for anyone who exercises some very basic precautionary measures. A blanket rule is clearly unrealistic and irrational; the devastating effects of an abstinence-only approach in some of the US Bible-belt states - with their higher rates of teen pregnancy, abortion, and pornography viewing - suggests how ineffective and possibly damaging it is, too.>>

I would call that an unhealthy symptom of society, due to our focus and preasure regarding sex as an early part of any romantic relationship. If there is nothing that teaches people to have restraint when they feel "in love" then as a population the strain is hard to resist those urges. As societies we've built and marketed many narratives that encourage sex early on in the explosion of passion. It's already a natural desire. It doesn't need much encouragement to also feel justified, when it is wrong. Teen pregnancy, abortion, and pronography are all characterists of not holding back. Rape on the other hand is when there is someone who says no, and the other forces it anyways. If there was better elements of restraint in our culture, rape might not be as high a statistic.

<<Of course. The rules' simplicity, and the inadequate blanket approach which they take to some rather complex issues, is what ensures that we will always need the god that supposedly set them.>>

You're right that these are complex issues. But the solutions don't have to be as complicated. Some of the most complicated issues start from either you or someone else doing something they shouldn't do. Then after we've all made a mess of it all it can be said that it's complimicated. The solution might not be easy, but it still might be simple.

Not_Now.Soon,

We can come up with many reasons as to why it might be better to abstain from sex until marriage, but this does not get around the problems that can be created by doing so.

<<I would call [higher rates of teen pregnancy, abortion, and pornography viewing] an unhealthy symptom of society, due to our focus and preasure regarding sex as an early part of any romantic relationship.>>

Sure, but then why are these problems worse in states that take a more simplistic, blanket (and Christian) approach to sex and sexuality?

You seem to have missed my point, which was that God’s rules are clearly inadequate and overly-simplistic. The US Bible-Belt was my real-world example of that. The US states that take a more realistic and sophisticated approach to sex and sexuality don’t have as high rates as of teen pregnancy, abortion, porn consumption.

<<If there is nothing that teaches people to have restraint when they feel "in love" then as a population the strain is hard to resist those urges.>>

The ability to abstain from sex long-term is hard to sustain regardless of what societies teach/condone. We’ve evolved that way, and probably wouldn’t be here today had we not. You seem to acknowledge this, somewhat.

<<Teen pregnancy, abortion, and pronography are all characterists of not holding back.>>

(Well, that’s debatable where pornography is concerned.)

They are also the result of unrealistic expectations and overly-simplistic approaches, as the US Bible-Belt suggests.

<<You're right that these are complex issues. But the solutions don't have to be as complicated.>>

They do if we want to adequately prevent the problems that may arise.

<<Some of the most complicated issues start from either you or someone else doing something they shouldn't do. Then after we've all made a mess of it all it can be said that it's complimicated.>>

No, you’re only talking about after the fact, now. The issues before the fact are also complex.

But you do raise another good point: the Christian God provides little-to-no guidance on what to do when his rules prove inadequate.