I read this article in Pickering Post.It takes me back to the country town of where I was born and bred. The town's power supply was a diesel in a shed near the railway station. It worked very well, and "outages" were nowhere near the problem they are in Adelaide 2017.

Yes Viv, electricity grids powered by wind and solar will require a 'diesel in the shed' - at least some fuelled standby for those long cold winter periods. Open cycle gas turbines, which can run on gaseous or liquid fuels including biofuels are best for this purpose as they are relatively cheap and fast ramping. So having this standby, combined with storage - battery, pumped hydro, molten salt or combinations of these - is cost efficient and there are already many of them operating on the SWIS grid to back up coal.

Have a look at http://www.sen.asn.au/swis_coal_retirement_2021_1
Click 'briefing note's and read how WA can go to >90% wind and solar electricity for less cost than the existing coal / gas system. It will become even cost effective relative to fossil fuels as gas prices rise and solar costs fall below $50/ MWh and wind below $60/ MWh as is predicted. A website worth you reading is Renew Economy. This article on PV cost trends is enlightening http://reneweconomy.com.au/lazard-solar-pv-storage-costs-fall-2016/

Great post Viv, thankyou, but I doubt you will get through to those who don't want to know.

When someone knowingly tells you a total untruth they are called a liar.

Are they still a liar if they have been so thoroughly conned that they actually believe what they are telling you?

What do you call someone who is well enough educated to see through the con job, if they would just look at all the information available on the subject?

What is wrong with the English language, that we don't have a word that covers this situation?

What ever they should be called, Roses1 is obviously one of them, along with a fair number of others who frequent this site.

Hey hang on, we do at least have a term if not a single word. Useful idiot does cover it fairly well, if not completely.

Hasbeen you continue your usual egregious trolling without any substantiated arguments. Readers with half a brain can see right though your game. You know that the biggest liar is yourself. You apparently gain some perverse please from trolling but it won't deter honest contributors like myself.

Roses 1

You being one of those readers with "half a brain"?

Lazy, deceptive article.

The "before candles" joke previously applied to Auckland when they had an extended outage in the late '90s. It doesn't translate well to SA: most Croweaters had their power restored before they even had an opportunity to buy candles. The exceptions were mainly due to power line damage by tornadoes; nothing to do with renewables.

And the so called "burst of green destruction" was nothing of the sort. SA did not close any gas fired power stations; there had been a plan to close one of them, but that plan was abandoned after the closure of the last coal fired power station was announced.

AIUI there was a time when SA was hurriedly bringing in diesel generators: in early 2001, after the investment drought of the 1990s and before any wind turbines were there.

There are some that just can not see past filthy coal and any alternative does not exist.
The likes of Hasbeen and Ttbn are past it, and have no need for a year other thoughts,stuff those that come after them.

I would like to know where the cost base for solar and wind come from. Both are largely unattended, and need no feeding. so does anybody know where the cost of $50 / MwH is calculated from.

Coal power is sold at auction in MwH lots. Which is I,ooo KWH @ around 5cents / KW. Which is $50 / MwH.

So why should wind or solar be any different from coal power.
The only difference I can see is one is black and filthy and one is green and clean.

I used to live in SA when Pt Augusta coal and Torrens Island gas baseload supplied most power. I don't seem to recall complaints about blackouts or frequent price rises. Now I live close to a couple of the hydro stations (Repulse, Meadowbank) that had diesel gensets during the big Tas dry when Basslink cable was fritzed. Actually the dry might be coming back with an unusually warm March and April. Let's hope there's enough diesels for both SA and Tas.

At the micro scale it is sometimes pointed out in the US you may be better off with a fuelled generator than a battery bank. Walmart sells a cheap generator and transfer cable that runs on town gas or liquid fuel. It will keep going as long as it has fuel unlike the battery which will be flat after a couple of rainy days. I think the Sydney-Hobart yacht race is a metaphor.. when yachts get dismasted and can't use wind power they come home on the always reliable diesel motor.

Doog (what an appropriate moniker!),

“So why should wind or solar be any different from coal power. 
The only difference I can see is one is black and filthy and one is green and cl

You need to be more than just a little thick not to notice the main and most important difference: coal is reliable, wind and solar is not.

Aidan,

You are the lazy and deceitful one. You are also an embarrassment to SA. Even proud South Aussies like me know that our energy set up is a total stuff-up. No other state has black outs like we do.

Hi Doog,

Good question re cost of PV. Check out this article http://www.apricum-group.com/dubai-shatters-records-cost-solar-earths-largest-solar-power-plant/

Cost of PV at this plant due to be commissioned in a year or so are under AU$40.

Coal has only been so cheap ($50 ish/ MWh) because they are old plants either owned and paid off by Govt or sold by Govt for a song to private enterprise.

This means they have very low if any capital costs. Also they don't pay for the cost of their health impacts estimated to cost $60/ MWh - that's left to Govt for disaster relief (climate events) and the Govt health system (respiratory damage). But those avoided costs aside, new 85% wind and PV with standby gas is still cheaper than replacing old coal stations with super-critical (so-called 'clean') coal. Adding carbon capture and storage increases the cost by > 30% above that, so like new nuclear plants, carbon capture and storage is a prohibitively expensive pipe dream.

Taswegian,

When did you live in SA? When I first came here, in 1988, there were occasional blackouts. ISTR they occurred more then than they do now, though people complained about them less. But I remember when the Heywood interconnector was constructed, we were told it would increase reliability - yet a few weeks after it opened, we had a blackout because we were importing Victorian power and for some reason it had to shut down, and it took a while to get our power stations to generate enough to replace it.

Prices weren't rising so fast in those days, as making a profit wasn't the objective.

_________________________________________________________________________________

ttbn,

You're the embarrassment to SA, as you have the racist attitudes of a stereotypical Victorian!

"No other state has black outs like we do."
That's a total lie. All states have blackouts.

I'm guessing what you meant was that no other state has had a statewide total blackout. But the one in SA was the result of a freak sequence of events. SA had never had one before, and measures were taken to ensure SA will never have one again.

Don't get me wrong - we're still far from perfect. But the issue is at last being addressed by the state and (thanks to Xenophon) federal governments.

And unless The Advertiser's reports in 2000-01 were just a media beatup, the state's power supply problems were far worse then than they are now.

Doog,

I would like to apologise for suggesting that you are thick. I could have said that you have overlooked coal's biggest difference - it is reliable. There was no need get personal.

Aidan,

You really are a dill. “ you have the racist attitudes of a stereotypical Victorian!” What has 'racism' got to do with electricity?

And “and measures were taken to ensure SA will never have one again.” Oh yes? We have yet to discover what the very expensive plans of the most incompetent government in Australia will bring. Labor hasn't got a thing right so far. Why would they suddenly get smart?

Check out eminent scientist Kick Sorensen on google tech talks, on U tube, and others with numerous scientifically validated articles that back me up! When I say, thorium is both abundant and arguably the most energy dense material on the planet!

Other well credentialed scientists have postulated that they could build walk away safe, molten salt thorium reactors, that would return a handsome profit at 3 cents per KPH!

However, as back to the future, publicly provided essential service, I believe, we can do so much better than that?

We could have rolled out, factory built mass produced molten salt thorium reactors long ago, at least in the bush, where they'd get power prices way way down and keep them there for around the next 100 years and beyond?

And in so doing, give city folk plenty of reasons for a needed bush change!

Cheap energy will bring industry, jobs and snowballing economic growth where they are now sorely needed, and take all manner of pressure off overcrowded capital cities!

Go thorium! Get thorium! Or get new representatives, who will at least get out of the way, if they can't make a difference that's worth more than a plugged nickel! As our on farm, water and energy dependant, economy sinks slowly (unsubsidised) into the sunset!

Walk away safe, tried tested and not found wanting, molten salt thorium reactors work at normal atmospheric pressure and thorium is less radioactive than a banana!

And yes, I'd welcome one in my backyard or back paddock! As opposed to the current coal fired powered station and atmospheric/soil/water pollution spewing from it? That could include cadmium, mercury, lead, arsenic and uranium to mention a few found to be emanating from some coal fired power plants.

Moreover, diesel has its own set of (carcinogenic)nasties!

We need to drift in a very different direction or change to leaders up to the task of leading us toward a bright new future rather than corporate farming? Where the bush is effectively depopulated and everyone heads for already overcrowded overpopulated cities!
Alan B.

Nowing that solar does not produce power when the sun sets is very reliable.
Noting that wind turbines do not produce power when the wind does not blow is kids stuff.
I would have thought that was common knowledge.

We need to diversify thinking instead of quoting local events. Some do anyway.
Whatever your preferance for power generation coal is doomed. You need to find an alternate power supply. Unbelievers can resist any advancement and push the far right ideals. Most people will go by way of solar, or small scale wind generator or a mix of both, and not worry about power prices again.

I went in early and my system has now completed nine years of fantastic service. The single most cost saving investment ever made. All household lighting now is 12 volt led..
Household lighting should have been 12 volt as a matter of course years ago for everybody.

I first discovered 12 volt power as a camping accessory about 1970 and wondered why it was never put in houses. My first makeshift lighting for camping was a very early model victa mower engine and a generator off a ford E 10 flat top engine.
All you need now is sunshine and a battery. No rope winding and no petrol even better.

@Aidan in truth I haven't been keeping records of when and where the blackouts have been occurring. However if you take a squinty eyed look at AEMO's market notices SA seems to have gotten more than its fair share in the last 12 months
https://www.aemo.com.au/Market-Notices
There's also the issue of pricing and it doesn't seem to be clear whether the new gas generator and solar battery banks will be paid for by taxes or power bills.

In the middle of SA is Olympic Dam the world's biggest uranium deposit which is curiously omitted from energy discussions. I roughly calculate its annual uranium output could create over 600 Twh of electricity whereas Australia as a whole uses 252 Twh. Maybe we're not seeing the forest for the trees.

Right on for the article. I've have small house on sole solar power for 15 years. Now onto the third lot of batteries. Sure they are getting better all the time - but not cheaper. Lights are now LEDs and this is much better. But fridge, freezer washing machine, heater - forget it. We use LP gas, for fridge and spot heating - also not getting cheaper. I started the system with a 240 volt gennie but now use a rectifier - but very limited output. In the late 50's we had a large desiel gennie in the shed, it was necessary ...seems crazy that we are going back to that.

As to thorium, so far still a dream to be shown to work on a reasonable scale...as are solar on batteries or wind power on batteries; also dreams.

Coal can be very clean if you invest in scrubbers - I've see this repeatedly in Germany.

I can't help thinking the nuclear lobby wants our agreement to their madness.

Anybody still cognitively unimpaired will be able to get on U tube and google tech talks to understand that thorium is anything but a dream but our most profitable, carbon constrained, future!

40 MW. may not seem much, but, enough power for around 8000 homes 24/7. Why 10 arranged in parallel 10 units could if you wanted pump out 400 MW in any one place and could be done in just days as bolt on trucked modules that'd work just about anywhere. And the current nuclear lobby wants almost anything else, as just the entire fossil fuel industry!

Yes some folks at least as dense as thorium can't understand that thorium is fertile not fissile and therefore just does not fit their understanding of all things nuclear!

Anyone who thinks as they do, is part of the problem, not the solution? As always, brainwashed green devotees/acolytes/sun worshipers, will declare only revered renewables have a place in our future! And as unsubsidised power coupled to batteries?

Possibly a part of that future? But only if you want to de industrialize the joint and trade places with the philippines, almost entirely dependant on the here today, gone tomorrow, (cut throat) fickle tourist dollar!

The recent cyclone took out around one and a half billion dollars from Queensland tourism? And calculated over the months need to rebuild and reestablish the industry.

We lost that much in just days as most coal exports experienced a few days of non production and no shipping!

The lesson, only untrammeled industry will provide a reliable future; and for that future to be ours, we need AFFORDABLE, RELIABLE, CARBON FREE ENERGY, whether the wind blows or the sun shines!

Simply refusing to thoroughly examine the facts, while trotting out complete falsehoods?

Is the mark of a brain washed, pathologically ignorant ideologue, not someone who wants a real future for our kids and their kids!?

And or unprecedented prosperity, based on planet rescuing SAFE CLEAN CHEAP, CARBON FREE POWER!? Know the truth and the truth will set you free! U tube and google tech talks/Kirk Sorensen!
Alan B.

I just love the sound of those thump thump thump diesels.
In all the talk by the experts on solar/wind everything is loverly
and you can have batteries for those still nights.

It all works well and is economically feasible.
There is always a catch 22.

What none of them EVER mention is the cost when you get a series of
overcast days with little wind. They don't mention that when you get
a sunny day you don't just need enough solar to run the show, you have
to be able to recharge the battery as well at the same time.
However if you had enough battery to take you through, say 5 days,
then you need enough generation to charge for 6 days worth of power
in just one sunny day.
Plus you need a proportional increase in battery size !

Have you noticed the multiplication of the dollars of solar cells,
batteries and wind generators. Oh yes don't forget bigger controllers.
This what the experts just never mention.
Some are just starting to realise this problem exists on the
alternative energy systems that everyone seems to be wanting to install
for the whole nation.

This is dollar wise contrary to what is being preached about solar being cheap.

It has become cheap but you need a lot more than they are letting on.

Oh, I forgot to mention;
As the solar cells are such poor performers on solstist days with
output down to 80% 2 hours after local noon and down to 40% 4 hours
after local noon and worse in winter then you need a tracking system.

Money money money, who said solar was cheap ?

What I have just said is like swearing in church !

ttbn,

"What has 'racism' got to do with electricity?"
Nothing; it just highlights the hypocrisy of your ad hominem.

As for what's being done to prevent a recurrence of the statewide shutdown, already there've been changes to the automatic response some wind turbines had to line faults. That alone would've been enough to prevent it from occurring had it been done before the tornadoes struck the lines. But there are also going to be batteries installed, and probably a few less obvious changes as well.

The lessons of SA (and other countries) are clear that installing renewable power needs to be backed up with alternate sources such as coal, gas, hydro, etc. The costing of the renewables needs to take this into account.